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What is happening

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April 27, 2016
6 upvotes

Lurking for 2 months. Read NMMNG and WISNIFG. Starting to own my gym, diet, self-image, making decisions, not apologizing, going out with guy friends, but still fall back to my old ways from time to time.

Starting to stand up for myself on compliance tests. However not sure I'm doing it right. I'm just now realizing how much anger I have after all the years together living as a nice guy and using covert contracts that ensure I'll never get what I want.

Starting to be more direct in asking for things. I need to work on setting clear boundaries.

Here's some background: I fucked up one night after drinking with her. We were having a nice dinner and out of no where she accused me of being aggressive and not being nice to her when I honestly was just talking about different workout techniques that she either wanted to try or wanted to avoid. Instead of fogging I got defensive and then angry which played right into the picture she painted of me. We end up having an argument at the bar and I let slip this gem "Everything I'm doing is to make our lives better... What are you doing to improve things?"

It felt nuke-ish and i knew i fucked up. Later that night I apologized because that line wasn't fair. Our shit is in disarray because I left my post as Captain. In the past I let her make all the decisions and when she asked for things I did them like her personal caretaker. I told her this that night and told her I was changing myself because the marriage never will work if I stay in my old ways. She sees my changes as being selfish but I see them as eventually being beneficial to the both of us.

Anyway, what I really need help with is what happened last night. Had a great night with her and mutual friends and towards the end I made a comment that embarrassed her in front of them. She confronted me when they left and at first I defended because i didn't mean anything by it, but after hearing her point of view, I can see how it could be taken out of context. I apologized for the comment and started getting ready for bed. She was giving me the silent treatment, I could tell she was still pissed but I wanted her to figure it out without my help. Plus I was tired and figured she'd get over it.

She starts crying uncontrollably and says she was looking at her veins in the bathroom and contemplating how best to slit her wrists. The thought scared me just as much as her. She's never had feelings like this before. I honestly don't know what to do. We talked after I calmed her down and she agreed to seeing a therapist with me - something she was never okay with in the past.

I don't know how to proceed. Should I continue improving myself or am I applying too much dread?

Edit: I realize this is lacking in details and the comments are correct: I don't exactly know how to fill in the gaps. But I'll try.

This was my victim puke before I changed my reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/45pcab/hopefully_not_too_late_to_take_my_post_as_captain/

Things have been lackluster in the marriage for 2+ years. 9 months ago, we both say we want more sex and a better connection but don't know how to accomplish it. My mom died in her late 50s from cancer last September. Obviously, I was grieving. In the midst of grieving, wife tells me she isn't attracted to me and isn't sure if we should try to work it out or cut our losses.

I get the Way of the Superior Man book and realize I've been spineless and I've restrained my passion and my dark side. I've settled for starfish sex and I was determined to man up and be the alpha man. Well I swung to the other side of the pendulum.

Since then I've been trying to slowly improve myself and hoping things would get better. I found red pill in Feb and I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel but now I don't know what to do.


Post Information
Title What is happening
Author ManUpNoExcuses
Upvotes 6
Comments 26
Date 27 April 2016 12:41 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207463
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4goa2e/what_is_happening/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
WISNIFGTWOTSMalphadread gamethe red pillNMMNG
Comments

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

TIL: A man initiating the main event while drunk has bad outcomes.

Not to mention that until your body is built like a greek statue, you cannot really be talking to your wife about working out.

Where did he fail? Not STFU about what he is doing. Two months in and immediately he is alpha AF and cant understand why his wife isnt trying to give him a handy under the table when he asks what she is doing to improve. Best guess, she's been running shit for too long and you come out of nowhere to set the world on fire. All she see's is another flash in the pan, surely to fizzle out.

Edit: Did you know that a healthy normal brain cannot contemplate suicide? If you have suicidal thoughts it's the time to get help. Getting the help is critical before you make the attempt. Not after.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I did and it worked out, but in all honesty, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

At that point, I had accepted it was already dead, and it clawed out of the grave to join me.

Edit. I mean drunk main event, not suicide, obviously.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

There comes a time when the point is reached isnt it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I assume so

[–]7Fig2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Stop drinking, I am always surprised to see how many men will continually fuck things up drunk and never consider that getting drunk is a weak behavior.

How do you think you'd handle a situation like your wife described while you were drunk?

[–]AlphaLeopard1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree. Stop drinking alcohol. It was one of my first and most important decisions on the first day I started unplugging.

Giving up alcohol has increased the rate of my becoming fit (better diet) and strong and kept me on the path (no missed or poor quality workouts because of hangovers.)

I now see that it has probably saved me from saying something stupid to my wife.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, the penultimate paragraph seems to come from out of nowhere. She obviously isn't recognizing your progress.

She may have extremely low self-esteem and your changes, and adoption of better self-leadership and leadership within the relationship, are threatening her. She may also think you are full of shit.

Don't fool around with the vein-cutting stuff. Definitely get her to see someone.

In the meantime, keep working on yourself but don't forget the emotional leadership of your wife. I think some guys take the STFU, AM, AA, ignoring, etc., too far in the beginning. You said you left your post as Captain, but realize that Captains lead their brigades. This isn't directive only; emotional intelligence is involved as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

She obviously isn't recognizing your progress.

And the fact he's bothered by this says loads

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sure does.

[–]jeeohnjones1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

am I applying too much dread?

You're not applying dread. You're applying something, it's sure as shit not dread.

Dread is supposed to inspire pride, smugness, happiness, gloating, not pure fucking terror.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Everything I'm doing is to make our lives better... What are you doing to improve things?"

lol. I'm doing this for you... can't you see that?

As for your gaffe, between the apology, the lack of social awareness of the female social matrix, and the lack of frame you had, here's a couple things to mull over for the next time.

female social matrix

And learn to be a little more playful. If you make a gaff, you can recover. Its all her fault you know, she's the one who married an asshole. :)

fogging would have been your friend as well. "I can see how that would look bad in front of your friends, fair point babe" you ackgnowledge what her issue was, validated that she had a point, and moved on. An apology exists to alleviate guilt by submission to the other person. What you should be doing is admitting fault (if there is any) validating the other persons thoughts on the matter (you don't have to agree, doesn't mean they aren't real for her) and plotting the course ahead (won't happen again, or whatever solution).

apologies are weak, save them for when you kill her dog, or slap her mother...

As for the silent treatment, the only winning move is not to play, carry on like it's the best day of your life. considering the quiet in the house, it may be.

I can't comment on your drunken captain bit, since you've provided few details. Either you are completely deluded into thinking shit is way more important than it is, or you have no idea yourself, and she's just telling you it's so. Getting your shit together is more than a comment can cover

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We take even veiled suicide threats very seriously on MRP. Do you?

In the midst of grieving, wife tells me she isn't attracted to me and isn't sure if we should try to work it out or cut our losses.

This is almost standard fare and is often a good sign. It indicates a woman at least aware of her feelz and concerned enough about her marriage to be honest. I am well aware it stings, but attraction is not a choice- it is something YOU create (or destroy) and it is something you can build.

I've been spineless and I've restrained my passion and my dark side.

Passion and dark triad is all well and good if the only goal is to get laid. If you want a better marriage then going full dark triad is usually a bad idea.

I'm just now realizing how much anger I have after all the years together living as a nice guy and using covert contracts that ensure I'll never get what I want.

Have you realized you are STILL deeply enmeshed in covert contracts?

She confronted me when they left and at first I defended because i didn't mean anything by it, but after hearing her point of view, I can see how it could be taken out of context. I apologized

THIS was the time for Agree and Amplify, Tease, make light of it, ignore aka- Proper shit test response- and most important, holding frame. By apologizing you adopted her frame and validated that what was said was terrible! In addition, you validated that her husband is weak sauce and unable to stand up for himself and that she made a shitty choice marrying you. No wonder she was crying.

She wants a Captain and a leader to lead her to a better place. Are you?

I don't know what to do.

Why not? The strategy is to Agree and Amplify and refuse to accept her frame of being pissed off. Lead her to a place where she is not pissed off and where she can rely on your rock hard frame.

If you take it to far and she breaks down crying then SHUT THE FUCK UP. This is a major comfort test and if handled right it can reset the relationship. Unfortunately, you did not handle it right. Next time, take her in your arms and hold her until well after she stops crying. Dry off her tears yourself and lead her away from the cliff.

I have 3 podcasts on Shit Tests and Comfort Tests 3, 4, and 9.

https://bluepillprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/hello-world/

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

she accused me of being aggressive and not being nice to her

This is a simple shit test. There are a number of responses.

"Everything I'm doing is to make our lives better... What are you doing to improve things?"

Your side of this statement (Everything I'm doing) is weak and has a stink of covert contract to it. But the statement about her (What are you doing to improve things?) is a decent counter attack if it was dismissive, contemptuous and not whiny. WTF is she doing to improve things?

It felt nuke-ish and i knew i fucked up. Later that night I apologized because that line wasn't fair.

Why wasn't it fair? Is she pregnant, or maybe disabled? Or is it just that your not allowed to criticize her?

I told her this that night and told her I was changing myself because the marriage never will work if I stay in my old ways.

STFU is best. Acta non verba. But if you ever feel the need to make a statement like this ever again it should end with "because its the right thing for me to do as a man."

She confronted me when they left and at first I defended because i didn't mean anything by it, but after hearing her point of view, I can see how it could be taken out of context.

This is a core concept: you are accountable for your behavior, not her feelings or other people's possible interpretation. Be honest, was your behavior out of line? Yes, then apologize like a man. But if your behavior was reasonable, you never need to apologize for her feelings or someone's oddball interpretation. One of my wife's favorite control tactics was to get angry and upset because of something reasonable I did that she didn't like, claim she has no ability to control her emotions so this problem is my fault and the only way to solve this is for me to just follow all of her instructions so as not to upset her. This ended the first time I shrugged, told her my behavior was reasonable, I didn't care if she shared that opinion and I wasn't going to continue talking to her if she couldn't interact calmly like an adult.

She starts crying uncontrollably and says she was looking at her veins in the bathroom and contemplating how best to slit her wrists.

Make a big deal out of this and demand that she see a therapist. If she really needs help she'll get it. If she was manipulating you and escalating to maintain dominance, she'll think twice about doing it again.

[–]ManUpNoExcuses[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is a simple shit test. There are a number of responses.

Mind sharing a couple?

[–]cj_aubreyRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]ManUpNoExcuses[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It felt nuke-ish and i knew i fucked up. Later that night I apologized because that line wasn't fair.

Why wasn't it fair? Is she pregnant, or maybe disabled? Or is it just that your not allowed to criticize her?

I guess when I wrote the OP I thought I was blaming her for things that I am responsible for.

After reading comments, I think I am still operating in covert contracts. "If I improve myself, then you should improve yourself" as opposed to improving myself for the benefit of myself alone and without any other strings attached.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Details. You don't have them.

You don't just slather on a little MRP and your wife immediately starts eyeballing the best vein to slice. Perhaps you've gone full-retard-asshole...perhaps you're a troll...

Me thinks there is more to this story and I'm not convinced you're self aware enough to provide the necessary information.

Either way, like you said, get her professional help immediately.

Edit: If what you said is true, stop editing your Internet post to Internet strangers and instead find real professional help for your Internet wife (I was on a roll) today.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think you're right. He's fucked things up somewhere and won't own it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Blue pill gifts, wrapped in red pill paper.

Kudos

[–]ManUpNoExcuses[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Update on mental health: I called the Hotline and they said either police or ER. I told the wife we should go talk to someone this morning but she says she's feeling better, last night she felt shitty and she never wants to feel that way again. Today she just wants to enjoy today (it's a special occasion). She planned a few days ago on going to yoga and then a nail salon so she's going to stick to those plans.

I'm going to research a therapist and make an appointment so it can be more private than police cars showing up or waiting in line at the ER. I asked the wife about her statement that she is okay to see a professional and if she still felt like seeing one in the future. She said yes/maybe but not to think about it today.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Still in her frame.

Make an appointment for a therapist immediately. Tell her you care about her and she must have proper help so this must be addressed immediately.

Explain compassionately that you did research and in dire situations the police arrive and force people to get help. You don't ever want it to get to that point so you're going to have her follow the plan you've already put together....seeing a real therapist.

Want to do MRP? Start fucking leading. Once you get her some basic help, you can decide if this is a marriage you want.

[–]blarggggggggggg1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, she doesn't get to threaten suicide and then a day later everyone acts like it didn't happen. Since she claims she is fine today, you can probably let her have her fun day while you find a therapist - but set something up for tomorrow.

Either she is seriously depressed and needs help or she is crying and using suicide threats because everything else she has previously been doing to manipulate you has been failing and she's pulling out some new techniques. Either way, your response is the same, stay in your frame and let her see that these sorts of threats will be taken with the utmost seriousness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You'd be wise to absolutely insist that she get evaluated. This story reminds me of how one of my children acted in middle school. Crying and whining about how they were the victim of unfair treatment from someone or other. When challenged to provide details or assured that you were going to help them resolve the situation it magically lessened in severity. Childish and manipulative. Sound familiar?

And, don't say stupid shit about about your wife that embarrasses her in front of other people. Makes you look like a dick. If she's so bad, what are you doing with her?

[–]lionmenden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I fucked up one night after drinking with her.

This is a fitness test. If you start passing fitness tests sober, she'll start to test you when drinking. If you pass those, she'll start drinking with you so you get comfortable, then test you. Until you can recognize and respond to those tests, you need to watch your drinking, even (and especially) when she's drinking, too.

We were having a nice dinner and out of no where she accused me of being aggressive

Her: "You're aggressive"

You: "You're welcome"

Her: "What?"

You: "I thought it was a compliment. My steak is delicious!"

"Everything I'm doing is to make our lives better... What are you doing to improve things?"

This isn't that bad.

It felt nuke-ish and i knew i fucked up.

Not that bad.

Later that night I apologized

Now you fucked up.

Anyway, what I really need help with is what happened last night.

Everything described up to this point you need to ignore and just move on.

She starts crying uncontrollably

This is partially a fitness test. She called you aggressive, and you reacted. She whined, and you apologized. She cried, and you comforted her.

and says she was looking at her veins in the bathroom and contemplating how best to slit her wrists.

There's two options here. She's a complete sociopath who will say and do anything to manipulate you. These people exist, I've met them. It's highly, highly doubtful this is the explanation for your wife.

It's highly likely your wife is experiencing serious medical health issues. This is not a normal thing to think or say, and she's telling you because she wants you to lead her in getting help. You need to continue to work on bettering yourself and you need to get her professional help immediately so that she can work on bettering herself. Hug her, kiss her, tell her that you will both get through this.

Imagine what a normal person would do, and do that. Be compassionate, but firm that she has to get help immediately. Don't be a "nice guy", and hope the problem will go away so you don't have to deal with it. Don't be a stoic alpha jackass. Just act like you have a family member that needs help, and compassionately but firmly help her.

[–]omarcoming160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm just now realizing how much anger I have after all the years together

Direct that anger internally. For you to get anything positive out of the anger, you need to be angry with you. If you have any latent anger at her for how you and your relationship is now, then it will come out in your interactions with and treatment of her- when you think you're being cocky funny, you're probably being arrogant and demeaning. The key difference between those is timing, delivery, and context. Until you've gotten past the anger, and are sure that you're actually cocky funny in your AM and A&A, might be best to avoid.

I made a comment that embarrassed her in front of them.

I.e. you were being arrogant and demeaning. I'm sure you thought you were being a cool guy, and just joking around, and teasing her like a bratty little sister, but you can still be an arrogant and demeaning c*nt to your sister. MRP isn't about being able to be an asshole to everyone without consequence because IDGAF, it's about being attractive, and not being unattractive.

[–]Itstinksoutthere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

First rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club. Anger is easy handling yout shit is not. Also you mentioned apologizing. The first incident there was no apology needed. The second incident (the insult) you should have never had to apologize. Get your shit together mang. You don't insult your first mate in front of her underlings that's a clear reason for mutiny!



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