Smart, or just a cop out?

[deleted] · 2016-01-28T14:09:47+00:00

It's okay to not initiate for a while.

Outcome independence on sexual rejection in LTR/marriage seems difficult at first, but isn't that hard in retrospect. Consider:

Do you initiate only when you want sex, or sometimes for poor reasons? Nothing better to do? It's been a while? She usually says yes after a massage? Because you did something nice for her? Because she happens to be beside you in bed? Initiate only when you want sex.
"No" means "not right now"
If you have nothing else to do other than have sex, then you are leading a boring and empty existence. Get a life.
Initiation isn't the moment when you say, "Wanna go to bed?" It's the moment you see her. It's a process, a dance, a subtle build-up. Always be closing. Move through initiation, isolation, and escalation with some push and pull. Enjoy the courtship. Touch her arm because it feels good to connect. Touch her back because you love the subtle curves. Touch her neck and hair because it feels good for both of you. Kiss her because you want to build comfort and trust again. Slap her ass because it's fun!
Isolation doesn't mean alone in your room. It can be little moments throughout the day where you draw her complete focus on you just long enough to make her feel your passion.

That's how sex is initiated. She might not be ready for PIV today, but after a while of this she's going to want to fuck your brains out regularly. A marriage certificate is not a "get out of seduction free" card.

[deleted] · 2016-01-28T06:09:47+00:00

When in doubt, take it slow.

Remember, you are doing this for you, NOT for her.

She'll come along as you continue to improve and start implementing soft dread.

UEMcGill · 2016-01-28T14:41:31+00:00

It's not talked about much here, and maybe needs to be highlighted again, but this is a good case for fake-it till you make-it.

You lack confidence in your decisions. You lack confidence that the outcome will be fine. So you just avoid it. But, you've taken the first step and acknowledged that.

So pick one minor thing. Some trivial thing and start there. You say you are seeing the shit test but not passing? Make that your victory. Start with STFU. There's a bunch of [FR] on the main sub that deal with STFU, so you can see the results there. Next time your wife throws a little shit test, just get up and leave. She sitting with her ass on the couch next to you and says "Can you get me some water?" and you think to yourself "WTF? She's sitting here just like me?" Just get up and go to the bathroom. If she challenges you just say "Oh, I thought you were joking." Then SHUT THE FUCK UP. Don't explain, don't defend, just STFU.

Deep down it will go against everything you feel you should do, but FAKE THAT SHIT. Just sit there and tell yourself, "This is all an act. I just have to fake this shit."

Fake it till you make it allows you to go through the motions even though they are uncomfortable to you. Eventually they won't be. This is why STFU works too, you literally can't say anything wrong because you aren't saying anything.

Trekneck · 2016-01-28T13:53:00+00:00

This all depends on what it is specifically that you're "pushing."

From the small amount of substance in your post, I'm guessing what you're wanting to avoid pushing on is sex, and that you're not able to be OI about it should you get turned down.

First, keep in mind that it will take at least 1 month for each year that you've been married to undo the damage that's been done. That said, you need to remain focused on the core: lifting, STFU, sidebar. You don't mention anything in here about your progress through the sidebar, so I'm going to assume you've made it partially through NMMNG. Read more, lift more.

Do not shy away from pursuing sex, or whatever else it is that you feel you need to back off of. Just ensure that in doing so, you remember the core tenants that you're learning here, and ultimately that it's ok to fuck up in the process. This shit isn't rocket surgery but it does take time to undo your bad habits that have been developed over the years.

Be less concerned with how your wife is currently responding, you've only just begun, don't start expecting responses to your changes, focus on yourself and worry about the way YOU'RE responding to these changes, your wife will fall in line in due time.

[deleted] · 2016-01-28T13:46:20+00:00

Right now I'm just thinking I should stick with the lifting and other small steps for another three months or so before pushing things farther.

Pushing what things? Leading, finances, sex, making decisions, changing your attire, dread, AA, AM, setting a vision, drawing boundaries...

What specifically are you choosing not to do?

[deleted] · 2016-01-28T15:22:58+00:00

You get out what you put in.

keep walking on eggshells and avoid a fight?

Why do this? You can't live life in fear of upsetting your wife. If anything, the occasional upset is good for you.

Are YOU where YOU want to be and your relationship where you want it to be?

[deleted] · 2016-01-28T13:49:23+00:00

Sex life is improving slightly, but still not good. I'm not imitating much because I can't yet even fake OI over it, so I'd rather just not get into it at all.

What I am finding is that you need to any way. Even if inside you are not you need to work it out and learn to deal with the emotions. Read the blogs a bit and they are telling you that you have emotions but you need to deal with them in a more masculine way.

By not doing what you want because you can't truly become OI you are ignoring the emotion and the practice you need to truly become that way. Like exercising a muscle. 2 weeks into RP and when my wife turns me down I shrug...either run or finish up a chore and other little things. Yeah I am a little pissed, hurt, but that will go away and it is. I know think...it's on!...but as soon as she is alone I chase her around because she knows I am a ticking time bomb. Tuesday I literally chased her around the living room 3 or 4 times.

But you can't hide form it. Face it.

I also agree with taking it slow but don't put your head down. In other words look for opportunities to take a real step forward. As I am learning I post things here....whiney or not and I get great insight on things I may have missed because I was too in the moment. It's helped me push some boundaries I didn't think possible before.

For instance that 10 second kiss thing? Yeah my wife was never a real big kisser...but now she smiles when I tell her to shut up and kiss me for 10 seconds. To say my mind is blown is an understatement.

[deleted] · 2016-01-28T14:57:23+00:00

Here is something I found on OI from the MRP sub especially focused on sex.

cj_aubrey · 2016-01-28T15:51:53+00:00

The 12 stages of dread makes a pretty clear process for turning the pressure up gradually and systematically. Standard advice is max one month per level. My experience is that things got more intense when I started consistently passing shit tests and was no longer under her control in a very visible way.

enfier · 2016-01-28T17:14:53+00:00

Keep plugging along. This all takes time. Your body is getting better, your attitude is getting better, and your wife's view of you is slowly changing. Soft dread is a wonderful thing.

Do an inventory of your current state of being and pick the worst feature. It might be diet, friendships, passing shit tests or initiating sex. Put your focus on that for a few months. Once it's on autopilot, you pick another area and work on that.

My general pattern is to pick a weak spot, read what experts say about it, come up with a plan, implement it and make it a pattern. If needed, I'll reread the material later as it often imparts new meaning and reminds me of points I missed. There's no real end to this, it's just a lifelong pursuit of "better."

MRPguy · 2016-01-28T17:37:26+00:00

Take a deep breath. You are new, it won't come all at once in terms of outcome. Eventually you will be what you desire (a Masculine Man). Having said that, listen to UEMcGill below. You need to apply effort in every single aspect even if you don't feel like it or don't believe you can.

You must fake OI until you develop it. You must initiate sex and let your wife know that you are a high testosterone male even if you don't feel like it.

SexistFlyingPig · 2016-01-28T17:41:59+00:00

You are changing the course of your ship. So I'd say "Steady as she goes, Cap'n."

I have a 6 year old daughter. She and I differ on opinion on many things. She thinks that potato chips make a great healthy meal. I do not. We don't "fight" over this topic. I make dinner and we both eat it. She can voice her preferences for a bowl of sugar with a cherry on top, but we are having chicken with rice instead. My daughter respects me and accepts what I decide.

Fighting with my daughter, even if I win, hurts my position of respect. If a fight is inevitable and unavoidable, then I face it full on and I make damn sure I win, but I don't go seeking out the fight.

From your description it sounds like you are honestly on the path to a life of happiness. You're not there yet, since sex isn't plentiful yet, but you're moving in the right direction.

Recommended readings include:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Married-Life-Primer-2011/dp/1460981731
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-God-Method-2nd-Edition/dp/0557036488

Title	Smart, or just a cop out?
Author	ParadoxThatDrivesUs
Upvotes	7
Comments	16
Date	28 January 2016 04:50 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	askMRP
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/207698
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/431ryu/smart_or_just_a_cop_out/