I'm addicted to straight talk.

chainlinks · 2014-09-28T14:57:46+00:00

This sounds a lot like me about 8 - 10 years ago.

Slowly over the years, I have found the power of silence. Locking eye contact, raising your eyebrows and most importantly keeping your damn mouth shut has changed my life more than almost any other "life hack" I've found in my almost 30 years on this earth.

The trick is when you catch someone bullshitting, immediately categorize them as a toddler in your mind. Would you argue with a toddler, if he/she were lying to you? Nope. You would just pat him on the head and change the subject to how much he likes bubbles.

It's really a matter of self-confidence. The more confident you become in your world view, as you get older and wiser, the less of an urge you will feel to prove the other person wrong. Unless you are engaged in a moderated, pubic debate forum, who cares if the person you are casually talking to is wrong and an idiot? Not me. I'm a fucking baller.

I can empathize with your position. I have always been allergic to bullshit. But I've found that the benefits of being socially successful trumps my desire to be right all the time.

The old adage is an old adage for a reason. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

MuzakNinja · 2014-09-28T15:48:26+00:00

When people use power talk against me, my natural reaction has always been to immediately see through the bullshit and logically demonstrate they are lying and what the truth actually is.

And this will instantly take you out of a position of power. They don't care if you call out bullshit. All they have to do is maintain frame and then you are the one who ends up looking like a dick or a moron.

People will power-talk you whether you like it or not. The only two options are to play the game or get walked on.

elbags · 2014-09-28T18:00:08+00:00

The problem with telling people they are "wrong" or "bullshitting" and guiding them towards the "truth", is that in their eyes it will never be seen as the truth unless they are very very rational with a very softened ego.

Unfortunately, most people are quite identified with their ego (especially around others) and any time you try to "logically demonstrate [that] they are lying", they will do the opposite. People have pride and when you are showing them how stupid they look, instead of waving the white flag, they will polarize in the opposite direction and stand their ground, which is why you haven't had a positive social life as you said.

On the internet, it's much easier exploring topics and debating things rationally; Our egos are gone (almost). But in real life social circumstances, talking about how someone is bullshitting is really not going to get you anywhere. The game is not rational, it's emotional. Most things don't make any sense at all. I'd recommend you read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie, one of the best books I've read about how we work as social machines.

So yeah anyways, if you really want to tell people how they are wrong, you have to avoid any attempt at attacking, or feeling "above" them or anything like that. You gotta have empathy and all that stuff if you actually want to change people for the better and have your utopian vision of a straight talk world.

Philhelm · 2014-09-28T15:20:28+00:00

I have the exact same problem. I have an INTJ personality type and have some Aspergy characteristics, and have a far greater respect for straight talk, even if it is ill-advised.

95wave · 2014-09-28T15:42:27+00:00

People will always, and always have been, stupid as all fuck. This subreddit is one of the few bastions of sanity left in the world. To those still plugged in, those 'lies and illogical ideas' are truth to them, so you have to think in those terms. They're like a fish in a fishbowl, they see a huge distorted mess of the outside world, and their logic fits that.

SkorchZang · 2014-09-28T18:33:01+00:00

Going to break it down to the bare bones.

You wanna be a good boy. So very badly.

As long as that is still the case, everybody and their mother-in-law has free access to the strings that jerk you around like a puppet. Women in particular are unmatched in their natural ability at jerking men around with those.

Advice, explore the dark side and find out what it's like to be a villain, asshole, evil mastermind if you will. Exasperate people with it on purpose, to experience for yourself that you are in no way limited to being a good boy. You need it. That feeling of not giving a fuck if you are evil, not only "in someone's limited opinion", but even in your own.

True moral behavior is characterized by an internal locus of control. That's how you get those people who dare to stand against their times, and sometimes get burned at the stake by everybody, for being evil. A few centuries later "everyone" discovers the toasty guys were right.

What they don't discover is not only were those evildoers right, they were also objectively more moral in their evil-doing than the sheep were in their conformity. Those who'll look to each other (and nothing else) to determine right and wrong are often merely slaves to vulgar common sense.

Lt_Muffintoes · 2014-09-28T16:28:18+00:00

Most people are broken.

You can't fix them in a day, and trying to will simply reinforce their idiotic beliefs.

You are wasting your time. If you want straight talking people, you have to find other straight talking men (women are unicorns), but they are rare, or create them yourself, but this takes a lot of time and investment.

Meanwhile, outgroup and disengage.

chaosbox · 2014-09-28T23:02:02+00:00

You've been indoctrinated to value rational analysis over feeling good.

If instead you throw everything out the window and just focus on making yourself feel as good as possible, this problem you're having will go away. Instead of subordinating feeling to thinking, subordinate thinking to feeling. Your number one priority should be to feel good at all times, and only use your thinking mind as a tool when it is absolutely necessary to problem-solve a situation. Most of the time, during most of our lives, we simply don't need to think so much. Turn off your mind and be happy.

A lot of powertalk isn't even done deliberately as a rational effort. People don't think, "Ok now I'm going to use this powerplay to achieve X effect." They simply have a feeling that there is a risk of their good feelings going away if they don't take control of the situation and make something happen to maintain their good feelings. When you're focused on maintaining a good emotional state, the powertalk comes naturally.

Instead of focusing on maintaining a good emotional state, your focus currently is on maintaining something like the full disclosure of truth. But truth and full disclosure, most of the time, aren't fun. They're depressing. So people keep that stuff to themselves because they want to feel good. Even Einstein knew how to put his rationality aside and make silly jokes in order to make himself feel good. Richard Feynman was a great example of a very capable intellectual guy who just seemed to be happy all the time. I bet if you really think about it, you want to feel good too, and deep down you know what it takes to get there.

As for how to make the switch, it takes time. Be patient.

CaniborrowafeeIing · 2014-09-28T16:59:27+00:00

It's not worth it calling idiots out on their bullshit unless they are spreading bullshit about you.

Keep your frame instead and just smile and nod.

openwaves · 2014-09-28T18:49:32+00:00

This straight-talk obsession is the desire for Truth. It forms the basis of your ideal world.

You have to have some success socially to understand how you can implicate your ideals and adapt the procedure along the way. Let the ways of social adaptation. This will take you into power-talk, into doing things in what you may perceive as the 'wrong' way, but do understand that you are experimenting. Then you can decide from a social position of how to expose Truth, not just an introverted one. This takes time, but remember all is well.

OP, are you a spiritual person?

whatsazipper · 2014-09-28T19:47:52+00:00

Context is everything. Knowing when and how to speak is a skill as much as the actual speech is. Straight talk has its uses but it falls short, and is even detrimental, in a wide range of human interaction.

Marsupian · 2014-09-28T20:21:13+00:00

Bro powertalk is not bad, wrong or deceitful.

Powertalk comes down to realizing that language is just something we constructed, a tool to be used. The purest form of communication is not language but body language, facial expression, emotion and suggesting an image.

You are not noble for not using powertalk. Stop painting yourself as the noble hero who has the moral highground here. Powertalk is how normal human beings interact. By not participating and actively pointing out the implied meaning behind the powertalk and therefor removing deniability and breaking the first law of powertalk you are just being an annoying interference in social interactions which will lead to you becoming an outcast.

Social interactions are not about being right or wrong. It's not about the fucking truth and nobody cares about the truth. People care about interacting and achieving goals while keeping a veil of deniability. That is how the game is played and how it is supposed to be played.

Also don't confuse powertalk with lying. Powertalk is not lying, it's communicating in the subtext but in that subtext you can still tell the truth (or lie). Someone can tell the straight up truth with straighttalk or tell you the truth with powertalk, someone can also lie with both.

Basically you have to realize your dream of straighttalk truth speaking people is not in any way noble or desirable. Powertalk is a beatiful pure and subtle way to communicate and interact with others. It's an art of body language, suggestion, implied meaning, tone, facial expression, emotion and frame control. Straighttalk in comparison is like a brute force attack of harsh and bitter reality. It's like throwing a nuclear bomb on a rosefield. If all the world had was straighttalk it would be the most boring and pragmatic place imaginable.

DoctorWelch · 2014-09-29T18:49:54+00:00

I am similar, actually, almost exactly like you. My view as that of the Ancient Greeks in regards to sophists. Essentially, the sophists believed the truth is simply whatever one can convince people of. So adapting a deceptive argument full of rhetoric to play on emotion is the key to winning an argument. And by winning the argument, you determine truth.

Socrates and so forth rejected this notion and that rejection is something I take seriously in my life. I don't soften words or intentions for the benefit of others. I pretty much only use straight talk and rarely use power talk as you've said. The key however, as I've learned, is understanding when it is valuable to engage in the talk vs not engaging at all.

You talk in the thread about lie by omission but that's not really the case. Think of it more as being smart enough judge each situation differently. You aren't going to walk up to some random stranger and start debating key philosophical ideas with them. So, if you aren't that invested in the friendship or life of the person you are interacting with then there is little point in engaging them at all on a deep level such as this.

Someone who doesn't care about you or doesn't know you is going to be much more likely to ignore logic in the argument to try to save face or keep their position. When this happens we can apply that saying, “If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?”

So, I think your position isn't entirely bad. It's simply a matter of judgement to understand when engaging in straight talk is going to be valuable vs not engaging at all.

[deleted] · 2014-12-30T17:33:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Doomsday_ · 2014-09-28T21:53:28+00:00

Unless you go and live in isolation as a hermit, you cannot escape the web of social relationships which is defined by power. Every social interaction is based on certain exchanges and mutual understandings. Powertalk doesn't necessarily mean lying and manipulation--it's just a different level of communicating exchanges with other people.

jsl2837 · 2014-09-29T00:33:30+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

fastball21 · 2014-12-17T01:16:56+00:00

Straight talk is the truth and the highest form of power talk there is.

kanaduhisfruityeh · 2014-09-28T15:34:46+00:00

"Power talk" is gay and annoying. If people are going to lie, especially if they lie about me, then I'm going to set them straight. If they don't like it, they can go fuck themselves.

AllOrDeath · 2014-09-28T17:33:52+00:00

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/130/pg130.html

And what is the matter with the candid friend? There we strike the rock of real life and immutable human nature. I venture to say that what is bad in the candid friend is simply that he is not candid. He is keeping something back— his own gloomy pleasure in saying unpleasant things. He has a secret desire to hurt, not merely to help.

joncho · 2014-09-28T17:38:39+00:00

I had a bit of the same issue when I was very young. What helped me get over it was trying to over-powertalk them, go so over the top with power talk that they feel kind of ridiculous for trying and people even laugh about it. I believe that a lot of people in trp are above average on IQ and this trick helps stimulating your mind to keep the social interactions interesting.

drallcom3 · 2014-09-29T18:53:03+00:00

People don't like the truth about themselves, they don't like straight talk, they don't like to look bad, they're extremely unlikely to change and you shouldn't give a damn about it. Resist the urge! I was like that and I feel so much better, now that I don't give a fuck anymore.

flexiblehold · 2014-09-29T02:56:53+00:00

Will to power is the truth, not will to love or will to justice or will to fraternity or will to equality. You simply need to realize power talk is speaking the truth.

Prattler26 · 2014-09-29T00:22:16+00:00

Stefan Molyneux has a book about full honesty in relationships.

https://freedomainradio.com/old-free/books/FDR_3_PDF_Real_Time_Relationships.pdf

If you're going down this path, the prize is a jackpot, but you better get yourself a quality radar that will help you find a 1-in-1000 woman.

Title	I'm addicted to straight talk.
Author	AllOrDeath
Upvotes	73
Comments	144
Date	September 28, 2014 2:39 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2hp6zk/im_addicted_to_straight_talk/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/im-addicted-to-straight-talk.21946 https://theredarchive.com/post/21946

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