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Pre-sex shit tests

by arm_candy | April 27, 2019 | askMRP

22 upvotes

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I'd like to ask for a bit of advice on handling some pre-sex shit tests. This basic scenario has played out a number of times, ending with me walking away at least two or three times.

Tonight my wife was in shit test mode. She started with a compliance test to open a delivery for her. I did the "oh no your legs don't work!" thing, physically moved further away from the box, and eventually just said no repeatedly and kept a smile on my face. Legitimately wasn't annoyed. This is only here for the shit-test context.

Eventually she changed the subject to sex and told me to get towels (for after). Grabbing hand towels is something I usually do, so didn't fight the compliance test and just grabbed the towels. When we started kissing she decided to create some tedious bedroom drama. She playfully hit/pinched me and then got pissy when I return the favor to her ass. I grabbed her ass and kissed her to shut her up about it, but in the process I leaned on the sleeve of her shirt, pinning her shoulder to the bed. She pulled it away and launched into a bitch session about me leaning on it, said that she's told me in the past that it bothers her and I always do it and it's intentional.

Now what the fuck am I supposed to do here? Serious question. She's sabotaging the tiny bit of sexual energy in the room by taking a break to lecture me. Ignoring her rant completely seems implicitly to say that I'll accept this behavior. Part of me wants to tell her to fuck off and walk away. Part of me wants to tell her to shut the fuck up and kiss her (but I'm not really aroused anymore anyway). Part of me wants to DEER and respond to her accusation.

Instead I purposely leaned on her sleeve again. I believe it came off playful, but maybe it came off more "fuck you" in the moment. She pulled her shoulder away again, I gave her a smirk, and she bitched some more. I told her to take off her shirt and it wouldn't happen again. Her response was that she's told me about things like this before, and I intentionally do things that I know piss her off (I guess not entirely false based on my last action) and that she doesn't like it when I do things after she tells me she doesn't like them. What I hear: "I don't like to be playful (with you) and if I'm going to put up with sex (with you), then you could at least walk on eggshells during the act."

At this point all the blood had left my dick and I was actively disinterested in sex. So I told her this wasn't doing anything for me and looked at her. She said something that amounted to "whatever", so I put my pants on while telling her that I don't know why she pushes like this before sex and that it completely ruins it. Then I said I was going to go read elsewhere.

Obviously, I have a lot to work on. Firstly, more STFU. I took a weak exit and made it weaker by whining about her ruining it. By the time it got to "this isn't doing anything for me", I should have already been putting on my pants, said only that and left.

What else should I be doing for shit tests like "oh my God you leaned on my sleeve?" I could go AA and ask if it's fatal. I could ignore it completely and pretend she never said anything. I could nuke it and walk away immediately. Of those only AA seems reasonable but I think would yield the same escalating shit test I got tonight.

Obviously I should get more attractive and this will happen less, but while I work on that are there any other suggestions? I'm interested in both "alpha sprinkles" that would help in this narrow situation, because it's happened multiple times, as well as more general, "this is happening because you're fucking up broader issue X".

(And yes, after I read I also went and lifted. Accessory lifts because I already did my scheduled lifts today.)

edit: Holy shit wall of text. Cut down some, but still a lot.


And since this is my first post in AskMRP, cut the shit:

  • 36, 150lb, 5'7", 15ish % bodyfat (Navy method), Wendler Training maxes: OHP 75, BP 125, SQ: 225, DL: 235

  • Books:

    • NMMNG: Don't hold people to your covert contracts. Also holy shit a lot of guys are way worse off than me.
    • MMSLP: Being attractive is the biggest factor in marital bedroom happiness.
    • WISNIFG: Assert your actual desires. You can get your way most of the time by simply being willing to state what you expect, repeatedly.
    • Rational Male: This was the first one I read and it's been a while, but... Relationships are not altruistic and love isn't unconditional.
    • MAP: Rehash of MMSLP MAP but refocused to present it for a less desperate-husband audience. Didn't get much out of this.
    • Pook: Have fun with it.
    • Way of the superior man: Haven't finished, but... Create duality in your relationships.
    • How to win friends...: A decade ago, but... No one generally cares about you. They care about themselves. Show genuine interest in them and they'll suddenly be interested in you.
    • Day Bang: Haven't finished, but... Open in the daytime in a gentle, non-sexual manner. Elderly opener.
    • The Ironwood Collection of Alpha moves: Lead your family to win in the bedroom.
    • Sex God Method: Being a sexual god will make women fall in love with you. Do that with DEVI to be a sexual master.
    • Models: It's far better to force a potential partner into the interested or disinterested bucket than leave her undecided.
    • Subtle art: You actually will give a fuck about something, so pick well.
  • Testosterone: Haven't checked. Will do next time I've got a GP checkup appointment.

  • Initiations/rejections: probably between 2:1 and 3:1.

  • Number of women besides your wife you could call right now to chill this weekend: 0

  • Last girl you flirted with who isn't your wife: Last was a random cashier; don't recall name but also don't flirt enough in general

  • How many days over the past 15 you have actively gamed your wife: ~10

  • Two things you do that make you a good catch: Good cook. Pretty funny.

  • What you would do today if you did not have a wife/kids to go home to: Right now, sleep. Tomorrow, call up friends to hang out, probably.

  • Write down what Dread Level you are on: Working on 3

  • How many more months you have to go until you are an attractive man with options: 6-12


Post Information
Title Pre-sex shit tests
Author arm_candy
Upvotes 22
Comments 48
Date 27 April 2019 05:51 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/236339
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/bhw3yf/presex_shit_tests/
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Comments

[–]simbarlionRed Beret32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy

Women make rules for betas and break rules for alphas.

Remember that.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

The other night I had a very similar situation during sex. I got up and put my clothes back on. I didn't leave, I just got a glass of wine and went to the kitchen. She was still bitchy so I ran with it and kept talking to her ramped her up a bit more. An hour later she broke all her rules about bed time etc and we fucked like monkeys until 2am.

When OP has the frame, game and SMV he will be able to easily crush these shit tests. She isn't sabotaging the sexual energy, she is getting emotional. Emotions equals wet pussy if you don't fuck it up.

[–]arm_candy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I haven’t forgotten. Remembering doesn’t magically make me alpha of course. I’m working on that.

[–]Redpillbrigade179 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Tactics and play-by-play advice on techniques will not help you much here. She’ll smell them a mile away, see right though them.

Your frame is a wet paper bag. Deep down you’re still a Nice Guy. You must change that first.

You must genuinely become that badass version of yourself who you have not been in years (or ever?) and who she hasn’t seen in years (or ever). Once you do that, all this nonsense will either not happen, you may not even notice it, or it will be like child’s play and you’ll swat the shit tests with true amused mastery.

The only way to get there is through work on yourself and some suave diplomacy/ STFU when in comes to interactions with her so as not to make things worse. Also some temporary distance from her / the home may be warranted, so you gain some perspective. Take a trip away without her for a few days (see my post on this in February).

In my estimation it will take you 9-12 months to get there, assuming you do the work.

Good luck.

[–]arm_candy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Understood. The plan of course remains to fix my own shit. I appreciate the feedback and I did reread your post. I have a guys trip (me and a friend, maybe I should see about doing a larger group soon) in a couple of months that I’m looking forward to for many of the reasons you highlight.

Thanks

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

Instead I purposely leaned on her sleeve again. I believe it came off playful, but maybe it came off more "fuck you" in the moment.

Don't do shit like this, you aren't ready. Imagine you are sparring with someone who is a better striker and more dangerous. They are being cool about it and not putting a lot behind their punches. They start to pick up the pace a bit to challenge you and then you crack them hard and piss them off. You took it from a 5 to 9 and escalated. Now they start walking you down trying to fuck you up. You obviously don't have the skills to deal with it so you get fucked on.

This is pretty much what happened to you. Hit as hard as you want to be hit and set a pace you can keep up with. If you can't handle her shitty behaviors, don't escalate. In time, you will be able to escalate, get her all worked up and then have some crazy sex built off emotions and strong frame. You simply don't have the skills to deal with your wife at the moment so watch your p's and q's until you have your shit together. You are certainly headed in the right direction but don't have the frame or physique yet. Get to work.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Right. You dont tell your spotter to pile on another 2 plates when you are already straining 1 rep.

[–]arm_candy[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fair advice. Maybe I’m not in the place where I can pull that off yet. At the same time, I’m honestly not sure that being a nice guy and pulling back to respect shitty boundaries is a move in the right direction. Is it better to fail trying or to not try? I’ve already done a lot of the latter.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You need to find ways to de-escalate. You can't place boundaries if they get walked over. Frame comes before you can do that. Otherwise you will make it worse and she will respect you even less when she crosses your boundary and tells you to fuck off. Boundary setting only works for men who can keep the boundary set.

[–]arm_candy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’ll keep this in mind and look for ways to handle this sort of test that don’t involve either deferring to her frame or overtly escalating. Thanks

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

“taking a break to lecture me”

Only Betas get lectured.

Sounds like all of this was a form of LMR combined with a shit test. It worked because you gave up. She beat you in a war of attrition.

Would chad have given up so easily?

In game theory, the war of attrition is a dynamic timing game in which players choose a time to stop, and fundamentally trade off the strategic gains from outlasting other players and the real costs expended with the passage of time.

She beat you into submission- which only proved and reinforced your Beta status to her. You’re stuck in this downwards spiral of doom.

Would chad lose blood in his dick because of her sleeve?

Seems like she’s responding well because she initiated the hitting and pinching. This is a good sign that she wants you to be more dominate and aggressive with her. Take that pussy dude.

What’s your problem? You’re way over thinking what she says. Don’t analyze it. Look at her actions, she’s playing with you and you fucked it up. Next time she hits and pinches you, instead of responding in kind (pinching her ass- which was gay by the way) start talking dirty to her. You know you want this cock baby, I can tell. You’ve been a bad girl all day long. You’re my dirty little slut, I’ve been looking at dat ass all day long, etc.. she wants to feelz sexy, not get her ass pinched while about to fuck. Sex begins in her mind first. Give her some manufactured drama. Reserve ass pinching for drive bys.

Also, what’s up with of the hand towels & wearing sleeves in bed?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seems like she’s responding well because she initiated the hitting and pinching. This is a good sign that she wants you to be more dominate and aggressive with her. Take that pussy dude.

100% this. If OP wasn't such a faggot, he could pick her up and wrestle with her. She might be able to bench more at this point.

[–]arm_candy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t think Chad would try to win this war of attrition. I’d expect he has better shit to do. But I don’t think Chad would be in this war of attrition in the first place because he wouldn’t fuck up the cascade of shit tests the way I did.

Your advice seems on point, through, and I appreciate that you gave me something concrete I’m fucking up. I’ll keep it in mind to bring more sexy and dominant and less gay ass-pinching in situations like this.

The hand towels are for: wiping lube off hands, wiping my dick off after sex, and catching my cum as she waddles to the bathroom. Sleeves are because the shirt wasn’t off yet.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

Honestly man, all I read there was that you emotionally invalidated her. A real alpha can do that and still maintain composure and is more authentic.

The problem with just constantly manipulating her is that you only have a surface based relationship.

I’ve been the dominant partner in all my relationships and I will say what she is saying is not the problem at all.

If you have an issue it may be how she talked to you.

That’s fair. I typically always talk with girls the first sign that they get nagging with me and calmly and in control walk up and pretty much say,

“Hey I care about you, now the way I felt you just spoke to me reminds me of how my mom talked to me my entire life and I promised my self I would never put up with that again as it was painful and brings up a lot. Now I will always listen to your concerns and hear you out, but talk to me like that again and I’m out. Because I do not want to have a life where I feel like that again.”

This always works for me. I hug them and say it quietly.

They get it and apologize or just say sorry. Or what ever.

Like if you are just going back and forth with shit tests, it means you have a surface based relationship.

I keep meaning to read the book “games people play” as it has a lot of different patterns people play.

[–]Tbonesupreme2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

WTF?

When a woman nags you, you tell them that your mommy used to nag you and hurt your feelings?

You basically said, "Nagging hurts my feelings, and I have mommy issues."

It might get them to stop nagging... but it is fucking gross.

You really should stop doing that.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Ha, no, I don’t wine, I don’t play weak, I erect a strong boundary, and flat out explain that I will not put up with that again.

What’s your Ace Score, mines a tad high. I’m just being honest with her that I don’t tolerate people to talk to me like that.

And it works like a charm every time, and on top the level of respect goes way up too.

It’s how you do it.

[–]Tbonesupreme2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

My childhood was after school special worthy. But I don't have mommy issues. I processed that shit out in my 20's.

A "who the fuck you talking to?" look is enough. And if it's not, I walk away. Naggers don't get to be in my presence. I'm at a point now where she'll nag and apologize right after, or apologize and then try to formulate a logical complaint.

She doesn't need to know you have mommy issues to stop nagging. She ALREADY KNOWS it's poor behavior.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I just use that to stamp it out for good as it never comes up after that.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

And man, if you can not be both vulnerable and know your and care about your self enough to be confident as you do it, then your relationshit is just surface level.

[–]Tbonesupreme0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

It has nothing to do with being vulnerable or confident.

Nagging shouldn't hurt your feelings. If it does, how many other "painful" triggers are you dealing with?

You should be able to work through that.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Vulnerability is how the measure courage in the lab.

I have not had issue with women respecting me. And I don’t resort to red pill stuff.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

And if by trigger you mean - I calmly paused and thought for a hot sec and then smoothly quietly walked over and look them in the eye and tell them how this relationship is going to work while being sensative to their needs,

If some how that is a “trigger” sure. I’m not that concerned.

[–]Tbonesupreme1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If it reminds you of the painful feelings caused by your mother, it's the definition of a trigger.

[–]H2orocks3000Probably NAWALTING around0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I see triggers getting a physiologic or deep emotional response from someone.

I just flat out refuse to recreate dysfunctional patterns period.

I’m deliberate about it.

I have not met many who understand just how much work it truly takes to create a loving relationship, how it requiers one to at times tear them selves apart and put themselves back together, to not be afraid of that vulnerability for its in those relationships which we grow the most.

I have no prob being vulnerable because I know where I’m going with it.

Everything is part of a game, the game inside us, the game outside us, and how we support each other in both.

If you are not a women as hell bent as I am on growing I drop you. I respect you will have your boundaries, but it’s that which we will be running after, a better future.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wholly fucking smokes.

You ask advice and DEER the living fuck out of to prove today aren’t a needy boy

Do you see this interaction ?

(You only have to prove yourself and answer to yourself) Own Your Shit.

All this advice can be thrown at you, and you can read until your blind, but stop trying internalize every single detail.

Start living for you. Bro time. Define a mission and yes, start bulking. Hard.

The “canary in the Coal Mine” is the bitch out of pinning her shoulder down. An attracted, immersed woman would apologize to you, with your shit together. See that ? Seriously.

Can you step back, read what you wrote in its entirety and define the real problem ?

So.

Lift and push each session.

Work on frame (and yes you can open the box for her and not break frame) not every interaction is a shit test

Fore play. It’s all day and starts with your mission, wardrobe, frame, game and Yes lifting

The biggest piece of advice is frame. And, learn to live like you are single. (If you walk an the house is a dump, clean it because it needs to be cleaned.)

[–]arm_candy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The real problem in this specific moment was obviously that I’m not attractive enough yet. I’m working on that.

I hear your advice, though, and appreciate it. I’ll continue working hard on raising my game across the board, from mission to lifting.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You need to understand that the moment triggers a lot of failures on your part of being a drunk captain

So let’s truly define a drunk captain.

Refuses to improve himself on all levels, including the fuckarouditits at the gym. (Go to the gym- look at dieting and make gains)

Is your career stagnent ?

How about ownership in general of all details ? Failed bill paying Missed doctors appointments ?

She has to feel obligated to cook and clean ?

It’s not really the sleeve. “Its youbdont listen to fucking thing I say or, spout out when my feelz take over...”

Are you seeing and understanding ? It’s the whole enchilada package

A woman will apologize for her jaw hurting, to the right guy. Got it ?

[–]arm_candy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was definitely a lazy, drunk captain. Fixing that.

I’m making gains in the gym. Obviously a lot more to do. Career is going well externally but I’m not happy and need to push harder. Getting better about all the other miscellaneous stuff. Not perfect yet.

I hear you for sure. I have more work to do. I coaster for far too long and I’m not content with that anymore.

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You took her seriously.

She's a little girl, testing daddy's limits.

You decided to give her test teeth by responding to it like it actually meant anything.

Add fun and dominance.

You handed her the reins the second you took her seriously.

She doesn't want to be handed the captains hat. She needs to be put back in her place.

Take her over your knee and give her a good spanking for being a brat. Then fuck the shit out of her.

Deference to her frame, especially in bed, is a huge turnoff.

[–]Tbonesupreme1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's looking for an excuse not to fuck you and have it not be her fault.

You either don't look fuckable or aren't acting in a fuckable way.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

This all sounds very standard, and you have the right understanding (handle with AA and setting boundaries).

What you need is stronger frame, higher SMV and more dread. You have to push on - something will click in your head and hers when you realize how easy it is to get the attention of other girls.

And fucking lift, bro. That means also getting your diet in order. You should be bulking, eat 400 kcals more per day.

[–]arm_candy[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks. The general feedback here seems to be that I just need to improve, which is mostly what I expected.

I am bulking. Up 8 about pounds over the last few months but flat for the last few weeks. Working to slowly push my caloric intake higher to get the scale moving up again.

[–]SepeanRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah that’s the way. Weigh yourself every day, when the 2 week average stops going up you increase calories. Just keep doing that, it’ll come.

[–]mrpthrowa1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well, you've got to have some standards and stop trying hard.

Start with the "open the package" interaction. What kind of retard asks the same question over and over? a retard who gets a reaction. The second question would have gotten silence from me, the third question complete silence, the fourth question and I may just fuck off out of annoyance and go fuck another woman.

Lack of attention is the ultimate punishment and a person who is retard enough to insist on something like that needs to be pavloved into getting scared of doing it again.

Yeah that may not get you sex from her that night, and I think you've got to forgot about insisting for sex for a while because you guys have created this weird pavlovian feedback loop where you wanting sex brings out autistic behaviour from both of you. I mean shit that bed interaction belongs to an autist saturday night skit.

Go lift dude, build your life.

AND SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I'm interested in both "alpha sprinkles" that would help in this narrow situation, because it's happened multiple times, as well as more general, "this is happening because you're fucking up broader issue X".

Fuck off with your sprinkles. Get better, have some standards. Go game other girls is probably your best bet at the moment.

Not because that will make her want you. But because it will show you what a woman does when she is attracted to an alpha. What it means for a woman to be so pleased she is PRIVILEGED and THANKFUL to gurgle on your cock, literally it would be the best thing to happen to her.

At that point you may start to respect yourself enough that you don't tolerate these shitty situations. And in the process, it will probably help you shed away your autistic tendencies. Let me guess, you probably sit in front of a computer more than 8 hours a day? because gosh do you lack some social skills dude.

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah this shit is familiar, stfu and do something else.... Her: blah, blah, blah, mouth noises.... You: haha yeah,stfu put pants on and do something else.

Did it this morning, not over sex but just left stfu came back and her mood had changed completely and I had coffee and breakfast made for me.

[–]arm_candy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am trying to have standards. Hence walking away. I’m also trying not to be entirely autistic, hence trying to not rely on walking away as a primary means of dealing with shit tests.

Appreciate the advice. Gaming other girls is the one piece here that I have not actually been doing at all, despite it being in my weekly goals. I’ll work on that.

[–]SoloQueueXL0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bruh if you didn’t enter this relationship already taking that ass you’re in for a long ride.

[–]jerrymcguiver0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She said something that amounted to "whatever"

She was dissapointed that her man failed to overcome her feminine bitchiness and plunder her with his masculinity. She will test you where you are weakest. Maybe she feels you need sex too much.

Of those only AA seems reasonable but I think would yield the same escalating shit test I got tonight.

AA so absurdly that she forgets the sleeve. I would go with "oh the sleeve" in a baby voice around 3x while moving my lips in a baby suckling a tit motion against her cheek. Meanwhile I would actively be taking off her shirt.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I always do it and it's intentional.

Sounds to me like she wants to be tied up and face fucked with her head hanging off the bed.

I didnt read any further.

[–]themerovingian010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've encountered versions of this many times.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She's sabotaging the tiny bit of sexual energy in the room by taking a break to lecture me.

Nope. She’s escalating the shit test because YOU failed from the start. You acted totally Beta, so she treated you accordingly.

I’ve had similar shit tests. Just saying no and A&A doesn’t fit there autist. Quit trying to script it- it’s not the time. Take control, pull her in for a kiss and tell her that can be done later because right now you’re gonna fuck. This has worked for me, but you might not be there yet so try something slightly different. It’s a perfect opportunity to show your dominance

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How big are her fucking sleeves that leaning on them is a constant occurrence? I'm wracking my brain trying to think of it happening to me ONCE... and i cant think of it....

She already made a deal out of it, so dont attempt to be comedic about it... Its a hot button now... ignore it

IF i ever leaned on a womens sleeve and she was like "WTF, dont pull my shirt" i might come back with "Oh sorry... but why are you wearing such baggy clothes and not some lace lingerie anyway?"

[–]ExpatRights0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She was deliberately sabotaging sex cuz she hates it



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