Redpillers, in what world/sexual climate would men be most happy?

coratoad · 2016-01-01T06:04:07+00:00

The best sexual climate would be one where women of some level of attractiveness, are attracted to men strictly of the same level of attractiveness. Sleeping around does not bother me personally, it's the disproportionate distribution of sex among men.

With the current climate, as a guy increases in levels of SMV, his number of available female partners (women that would have sex with him) grows exponentially, not linearly, or uniformly. Here is an example of what we call hypergamy, using a 1-10 scale, where 1 is the absolute ugliest, 5 is average, and 10 is the best looking possible(celebrity level SMV). exponential growth means, if men who are 7's have woman 5 and 6's attracted to them, men who are 8's have woman 5, 6, and 7's attracted to them, while men who are 9's get the women from the 5, 6, 7, and 8 group, and so on.

In my ideal world, it would be around the same for each group. Men who are 6-7 have women who are 6-7 attracted to them. Men who are 8-9 have 8-9 women attracted to them.

throwinout · 2016-01-01T08:36:38+00:00

World 1. In my perfect world, the male to female ratio would be 1:4. Men would still be in the most powerful positions, of course.

cxj · 2016-01-01T17:23:23+00:00

In my opinion, most men would be happiest in a world of actual assortative mating and pairing. Men and women with roughly equivalent SMVs pair up long term.

Key is that the most men have the most opportunity to select, or be selected by, one sufficiently attractive woman for sex and eventual long term mating and pairing.

Right now that's mostly what happens when men and women finally marry. That's not what happens for sexual selection, though.

Right now, a very few men, and most women, have about 80 to 90% of all the sexual power in the dating market. That's a situation that leaves most men out in the cold.

Xemnas81 · 2016-01-01T07:43:17+00:00

There is no world in which hypergamy is a thing and all men and women are happy. For all women to be happy, some men must live and die alone. For all men to be happy, many women must live feeling bitter, insecure and cheated out of what they feel they deserve.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-01-01T04:59:02+00:00

How many times can this be mischaracterized

They are disgusted by sluts as an investment for marriage and ltr, not sex

grendalor · 2016-01-01T14:28:25+00:00

Not relevant for red pill at all because, as you recognize yourself, the red pill is about suceeding in the present scenario, and not changing it to some preferred ideal.

As for what a preferred ideal might be, you will have opinions all over the place, which is to be expected, because it's irrelevant for red pill praxis. So we have our own, divergent views about it like we do about anything else that is not related to red pill praxis.

[deleted] · Fri Jan 1 5:11:02 2016 UTC

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[deleted] · 2016-01-01T16:59:56+00:00

A post-singularity world in which sex and the sexes aren't even things.

factsnotfeelings · 2016-01-01T05:00:08+00:00

If men were as attractive as women then there would be no problems.

The problems with dating/relationships are caused by the fact that women are much more attractive than men and also have higher standards.

Unfortunately, evolution has condemned most men to a life of unsatisfying relationships.

factsnotfeelings · 2016-01-01T05:40:31+00:00

World 4 is the ideal, but it would require men being given the plastic surgery and/or hormone treatment to improve their looks.

spirit_of_mattvity · 2016-01-01T17:00:42+00:00

It's about recognizing the changing world, not about changing the world.

Let's look at the narrative around the 50s. The narrative pushed by feminists, shown in media, that is probably just a caricature of reality, but lets take take it as mostly true.

Women get locked down when they're young. They buy into their husband being a worthy man that they're lucky to have. The man is the head of the household, the woman likes this. The woman is expected to be only sexually available to the man, and it's wrong for anyone else to lust after her, or her to seek that lust out from any man. The woman ended up with the guy from a limited pool of men in a more local community, and likely had a strong idea of her place in the pool as well as his.

Nowadays even the bit about lust is gone. If a woman dresses like the sluttiests of sluts feminists are just going to argue it's for 'her', and toxic masculinity, men controlling women, not that it's reasonable for a man to be upset that his partner is strongly sexually signaling to other men.

I don't really believe that too many men want to take away women's choices, or even have it frowned upon for women to make these choices. They just believe that if we were all honest with what these choices mean, that they do have some negative impact, at that women are following basic biological guidelines that modern feminism denies, that women would make different choices, and society would go back.

But it's not really going to. You can't ask a 20 year old girl exercise discretion when utilizing her power, or to recognize exactly what that power is (sexual, not necessarily attractive as a whole). The average 20 year old girl would rather fool herself into believing that the pittance of sexual attraction she can feel coming off of Chad elevates her to his level, and that she could get him into a relationship, than to admit that she's not near that level, and that being able to sexually overshoot in the short term might not reallllllly be what she wants.

I've had this fantasy for awhile. You can call it hateful. I'm convinced that if we were to devise a scale of attractiveness and show young women a corresponding man at their level of attractiveness, they would by and large pitch a fit. Say you took 200 men, and 200 women (18-32), and had them each rank the others on a 1-10 scale or a 1-100 scale. Then you show, say, the 63 what the 58-68 rated men looked like, she would be visibly upset, she would start spouting rhetoric about personality mattering. 80th percentile height in the US is 6'0'' for 20-40 year old men. it's in there.... If you've used dating apps you'll know that the most common listed physical characteristic is height, and if there is a number given it's 6'0''+, or even 6'1'' or 6'3'' I've seen. However, only 20% of men in the US are 6'0'' or above. The other thing I see is 'ambition' 'passion' 'education' 'career oriented'. Let's not beat around the bush, this is going to mean a college education in most cases. Sure there might be the odd man out yadda yadda, you're not him, the people that you know aren't him. When you're talking about a bachelor's degree or greater you're only talking about ~32% of men aged 25-40. If you're assume that men of all heights are equally likely to earn a bachelors (this probably isn't true, probably weighted a little heavier towards taller men), then you're only looking at 6.4% of men that are 6'0'' or taller that have a bachelors degree even if we weight that up a bit and guess 9% or 10%, well, I'd put for the question to women, are you really in the top 10% of looks? You may think these things are basic, but if you consider them requirements, you're throwing out roughly 90% of men. If you pile onto that, how many of those guys are obese (incidence is much lower among tall and college grads, but when you're only dealing with 10% of the pop, losing 1% more is a big deal), how many are just ugly, how many are disabled, how many are unmasculine nerds (true nerds) that play LoL all day, how many got degrees in bullshit?

But that's not going to happen. We aren't going to get women to recognize where they actually stand because the allure of the highest possible value partner is too much. We're going to have the average woman slutting it around from 16-29 before unconsciously realizing she has to aim lower for commitment, and when she does aim lower, well, the guy will be so 'sweet' and 'not what I wanted when I was younger' and 'not what I saw myself ending up with'. Then she's going to suggest that they have an open progressive relationship. He can sleep with who he wants too! Completely ignoring that this is a false equivalency and that the average man has near 0 sexual power.

That world just mentioned is our world, at least the way it's heading. It's not about changing it. There are very few that want to affect choice beyond being allowed to provide counterexamples to mainstream feminist narrative. A man doesn't have to be a 6'0''+ college graduate, though it helps, but they do have to recognize that they need some status of some type. They need to realize that while a woman can simply not eat a huge excess amount of calories and have sexual power, he has to to learn how to lift, has to monitor his protein intake, discipline himself to go to the gym many times a week for months all before he can be start to have sexual power unless he has something that he does that allows him to stand on a stage in front of people, or if he is making, or comes from, a ton of money. If you are a man, and don't have any of the previous going for you, you are going to be Plan Beta.

[deleted] · 2016-01-01T19:12:29+00:00

These guys dabble in evo-pyche when it suits them. Their big blind spot in that arena is that they are truly low status males, and no amount of turn of phrase or forum participation will change that. The places in the world that are historically polygamous are violent and underdeveloped. These guys would be roving around the jungle or dying in some sort of invented conflict during puberty, not overseeing a harem of women in such places.

Startled_Butterfly · 2016-01-01T04:54:37+00:00

1) I don't think anyone thinks all women are sluts, that would be a very ignorant view.

2) I also don't think TRP is disgusted by sluts. Would you have sex with someone you thought was disgusting? They aren't disgusted by their existence, they just have a view of what sluts are good for: sex. By definition that's what they do. What else are they good for? That depends on the slut. What are they not good for? Long term relationships. This view doesn't say anything about their intelligence, or their financial status, or their job, or anything else.

So yeah, the basic premise is wrong. TRP isn't disgusted by sluts just because they don't want to have relationships with them.

3) Also, to find someone disgusting I think you have to care a WHOLE lot more than TRP usually does about the people they're just fucking.

[deleted] · 2016-01-01T05:57:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Tom_The_Human · 2016-01-01T20:10:26+00:00

If every man got his oneitis , hypergamy didn't exist, and being beta didn't repulse bitches.

[deleted] · 2016-01-01T20:31:58+00:00

You want to have "sluts" to fuck, but you also want a virgin to marry (without the threat of "divorce rape") and give you kids.

not necessarily how it works. our parents/grandparents only had each other and were happy. What if we want to fuck sluts because some girls are sluts, some men are fucking them and chances are - that's who we marry in the end because the only way for us to know she's not a slut more or less is if she's a virgin... but many of us will never experience virgins at all. So why wouldn't we want fuck sluts when others are fucking them?

World 1. Awesome, but unstable. Because the ratio of newborn girls to boys is kinda close to 1:1 with more boys born than girls, that 30-70 ratio won't last long. However, if this system could be stable - that would be great.

World 2. This is indeed the world now and it's not great.

World 3. In such world women wouldn't be slut shamed as much, because it's the reversed of what it is now. There - it's easy for men to get sex, so... Women still would be sort of slut shamed because of the instincts, knowing she has your child and all that stuff. This is something that can't be fixed easily as long as women are giving birth and men are competing for women. It's still worse than world 1, world 1 doesn't expect women to be slutty and doesn't desire sluts for LTR, because in world 1 men simply can share women so everyone has their share of virgins that then keep sleeping with them. It's perfect - they get loyal mates AND variety AND threesomes (or even 4,5,etc)? how cool is that lol?

World 4. Unreal. In fact, World 4 = World 2. It's not like in the world 2 only a percentage of men is allowed to have women, no. It's that women only want to have sex with a percentage of men. This is the shittiest world out of what you listed, because most likely most men including me (which is what matters most for me of course) will not get sex.

I think you should add World 5.

World 5. The world now according to books and old movies. There's more or less equal amount of men and women. Everyone has their "second half" and true monogamous relationships with women marrying as virgins are common. Traditional family and all that. This world sounds lovely, too. Would have hard time choosing between this one and the World 1.

[deleted] · 2016-01-01T21:32:58+00:00

Basically the late 50's early 60's in America a la Mad Men. So none of the options you provided. But out of those options I guess number 1 would be nice.

I know BPers like to think our world is moving towards number 4, but the reality is we are in world 2 already and it's only going to get worse.

[deleted] · 2016-01-01T22:15:40+00:00

I would like not to have to spit game.

I would like just asking her out and being nice working as well as being a player

Apexk9 · 2016-01-02T00:54:31+00:00

I ANSWERED THIS QUESTION WRONG EVERYONE LOOK AT ME AND LAUGH

Take pre WW1 but flip the script Men stay home Women work.

Before I started my own business I worked 8 hrs a day commuted 1 hour slept 8 that's 17 hours of my day gone leaving me 7 leisurely hours.

If my wife workrd and all I had to do was take care of the house / meals (3 hours tops) would give me 13 hours to pursue my hobbies and passions.

I wanna be a Lion not a Wolf you know what I'm sayin.

Gnometard · 2016-01-03T23:00:25+00:00

It's different for everyone. Stop. Stop it

spirit_of_mattvity · 2016-01-01T17:03:52+00:00

It's not about what is the ideal climate, it's that this is the climate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vqRbScCIPU

Title	Redpillers, in what world/sexual climate would men be most happy?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	106
Date	January 1, 2016 4:34 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3yzkoc/redpillers_in_what_worldsexual_climate_would_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/redpillers-in-what-worldsexual-climate-would-men.277355 https://theredarchive.com/post/277355

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