Dr. Karen Ruskin Discusses The Success of 50 Shades of Grey. Accuracy?

PurplePillDiscussion · 2015-11-14T18:08:03+00:00

I read 50 Shades of Grey- a girlfriend of mine insisted it was hysterically funny and I figure of I'm gonna be outraged by something I might as well have a grasp of the material. What struck me most was how boring the sex scenes were. It's a female fantasy and she orgasms ONCE per sexual encounter. Many other women I know have commented on how depressing the notion that FSoG sex is fantasy material; what are women getting in real life??

Before looking at book sales as an indication that all women long for this relationship dynamic, I think there are questions you have to ask I regards to its popularity/infamy: how many women were actually impressed by the sex in the book and longed for it themselves (versus reading to mock it or be included in conversations around it) and what are the ages/sexual history of these women?

If you look at women in our 20's and 30's, we don't require men to be in character all the time. Men can be stoic and commanding sometimes and other times they can be sweet and vulnerable. When my husband flips me over in bed, I'm not thinking about him crying during Call the Midwife- which is still pretty adorable TBH.

wub1234 · 2015-11-14T19:46:51+00:00

The hypermasculine alpha male has been the focus of all romance novels since "The Flame and the Flower".

This is a valid point. I always use the example of the classic female fantasy of the guy who whisks a woman off on horseback.

Which one of these two guys is sexy?

Guy rides up on horseback. Holds out his hand and addresses the woman. "Get on". Grabs her hand, pulls her onto the horse, and they ride off into the sunset.

Guy rides up on horseback. Gets the woman's attention. Starts speaking to her: "Excuse me, sorry to bother you, I couldn't help noticing that you're alone in the desert, and I hope this isn't too presumptuous of me, but I wonder if I could possibly give you a ride towards the sunset on the back of this horse, I mean I understand if you're not interested, that would be a natural reaction, but..."

The answer is obvious. I don't know if I would use the word 'dominated' as not all women want to be dominated, but it is true that female sexuality is generally submissive. It would be stupid if it wasn't because men fuck and women get fucked, so there is always going to be a submissive element to it, or it just wouldn't work. So virtually all women are attracted to strong men who take the lead.

You can look at any problem page, I've read one recently. The number one complaint from women is men cheating on them, which is to be expected. The number two complaint is...he doesn't initiate sex, he doesn't make an effort to do anything, he never surprises me, he never takes me out, he can't make any decisions about anything...essentially this man communicates no masculinity to her.

This makes women extremely unhappy because they don't want to take the lead in everything. There is a reason that all of our dating and mating rituals are still to this day organised with the man taking the initiative and the woman following (and ultimately being the sexual selector). It's because that's the way it works in nature, it's in our nature, and it doesn't matter how much feminism (some of which I agree with) or female liberation (much of which I agree with) you have, you cannot deny our primordial, biological instinct.

Where I would disagree with RP, or at least many people who post there, is that I believe it's extremely important to show consideration and understanding towards women as well as leadership and dominance. This is not a sign of weakness, it's indicative of a well-rounded and secure human-being.

I must just mention that 50 Shades of Grey essentially describes an abusive relationship. It's a bad example of a BDSM relationship because the dom breaks numerous codes and conventions (leaving aside the fact that it's extremely poorly written). But, hey, shit flies off the shelves.

energyvolley · 2015-11-14T19:36:01+00:00

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MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-11-15T04:55:29+00:00

What the heck do women really want?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYlPhFj_3T0

and here's another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbJOLq5wXwk

Cartesian_Duelist · 2015-11-14T20:00:37+00:00

I personally agree that most women like masculine men. I don't get where people got the idea that women like feminine men. Even in romantic movies , the male characters tend to be masculine.

wombatinaburrow · 2015-11-15T11:01:00+00:00

It was a heavily promoted potboiler riding the wave of Twilight popularity. Saying that women like it because they want to be treated like Christian Grey treats Anna is like saying that men like Dick Francis novels because they all want to be jockeys.

Ultrablue1973 · 2015-11-14T19:13:27+00:00

TRP theory clearly works on the type of women who aren't going to get on the internet to spend hours discussing gender politics.

[deleted] · 2015-11-15T21:32:40+00:00

I don't agree with all she said, in general, because not ALL women read 50 Shades and of those who did, not ALL enjoyed it or liked it. I read the first few pages and got bored and didn't read any more.

But even so, you cherrypicked. She also said this:

My tip is that rather than feeling confused about wanting it all, let us all acknowledge that both men and women enjoy sometimes being the leader and other times the follower. Sometimes taking care of one’s mate and other times being taken care of. Sometimes being dominant and other times being submissive. The terms “dominant” and “submissive” although often used in ways in which represent more extreme forms of sexual acts, let’s just take the words in their very basic form. There are many women who sometimes want their mate to lead the sexual party from start to finish, and other times it is fun to be the leader, and even other times it is fun to have a mix of back and forth throughout the sexual encounter between who is more of the leader and who is more of the follower, who is more dominant and who is more submissive.

Dr. Ruskin also says, in reply to a man in the comments:

It is an interesting commentary you are stating here to suggest that “feminism encourages society to bring up boys to feminized men, and then women are saying they don’t get turned on by feminized men”. I don’t believe that is what feminism encourages. I can understand how some men may have received that message, though feminism is about women and opportunity, women and rights, women and having a voice. It is not about feminizing men. I’d like to believe that women can experience empowerment, be leaders, have rights, have opportunity and have a voice WHILE men have those things as well. Does one gender have to become feminized and the other gender become more masculine? I think not.

(Oooooooh! Let's have a discussion about THAT! :) )

Title	Dr. Karen Ruskin Discusses The Success of 50 Shades of Grey. Accuracy?
Author	PurplePillDiscussion
Upvotes	7
Comments	105
Date	November 14, 2015 5:49 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ssv75/dr_karen_ruskin_discusses_the_success_of_50/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/dr-karen-ruskin-discusses-the-success-of-50-shades.278432 https://theredarchive.com/post/278432

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