If AWALT is not accurate, is A18ALT and AHALT not accurate too?

PrimePussyOverRancid · 2015-07-19T19:46:08+00:00

A18ALT = All 18y.o.s Are Like That see this thread AHALT = All Hos Are Like That see this thread AWALT is a generalization that seems to cause the most...

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You seem to be a thoughtful and introspective person, I'm going to estimate that 70% of adult humans aren't like that.

Rp doesn't claim to tell guys how to deal with every woman just the majority of them. I'm going to guess that you aren't the type of insecure person to constantly test your husband so this isn't a huge issue in your lives.

As far as the first part of the comment I haven't read that discussion yet, I'm still working through yesterday's posts. I do think that there is a certain time period where a woman will usually sleep with you if she's really attracted. Some it's an hour, some it's on the honeymoon. I think the average is between a week and two weeks but I'm not in my 20s so it may be different for the younger crowd.

The key in my mind is to be able to tell if the woman is stringing you along because she read The Rules or something or is she just a person who wants to wait to see if there is a possible relationship before sleeping with a new man. I think only experience can teach that.

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vet their man and advocate giving up sex when exclusivity is verbalized by him.

So he passes one test and then that's it? He's a saint for life because he commits? Why doesn't TRP allow something like this for women? Like if she cooks dinner and does anal, then she is no longer AWALT and worthy of marriage.

Doesn't TRP specifically remind each other AWALT no matter how good she seems? There are no unicorns. Why are there also no unicorns in RPW?

Finding a worthy man to concede power to seems alright. I would definitely act in the best interest of my woman if she is indeed a worthy RPW to LTR/commit to.

You would, but I would also say that I'd act in the best interest of my man. TRP wouldn't believe me, so why should we believe you?

All humans are selfish and care about themselves first and foremost. That's what TRP will tell you at first. Yet in practice and in theory, they really only think that it's women who are like this.

[–]ERockEfreedom0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Not really. Men's comfort with the manipulation and abuse tactics trp teaches are contingent upon genuinely believing that all women are manipulative, gold-digging liars to begin with.

Here's are a couple gems from your sidebar:

Law #12: Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim.

One sincere and honest move will cover over dozens of dishonest ones. Open-hearted gestures of honesty and generosity bring down the guard of even the most suspicious people. Once your selective honesty opens a hole in their armor, you can deceive and manipulate them at will. A timely gift - a Trojan horse - will serve the same purpose.

Law #17: Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability.

Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people's actions. Your predictability gives them a sense of control. Turn the tables: Be deliberately unpredictable. Behavior that seems to have no consistency on purpose will keep them off-balance, and they will wear themselves out trying to explain your moves. Taken to an extreme, this strategy can intimidate and terrorize.

Would you be comfortable using these tactics on someone you view as abusive and toxic? How about if you realized that virtually no one is like that? How comfortable are you using these techniques then?

[–]ReddishBlack6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The 48 Laws of Power (1998) is the first book by American author Robert Greene.[1] The book is a bestseller,[2][3] selling over 1.2 million copies in the United States.

Those laws came from a national best selling book, so this sort of thinking is more common and broadly appealing than you want to believe.

I don't use those tactics, as I'm not really clever enough nor am I motivated to run complex power games in my life. Learning that they exist, how people use them, and how to recognize them are valuable things to know though. Robert Greene himself said in his intro that you are free to use the information as you please, whether it is to arm yourself against manipulators, or to become one yourself.

I don't understand how people can read things like this and not appreciate what these writers are teaching you about human behavior. Would you rather people not have this discussion? Are you an enemy of open education? What are you so afraid of?

I think you are conflating an open discussion with actual execution of the material. We can discuss murderers, without wanting to be murderers. We can appreciate great manipulators, without aspiring to become manipulators. All of these are much more heinous behaviors than a lonely redditor trying to improve his sex life. Unless of course the idea of a sexually ineffective male having sex is more appalling to you than the idea of murder. But I wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest as to try and put those words in your mouth just because you participated in an online forum.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The book is a bestseller,

Who cares? I don't get your point here. You're being trained to think of women as people you can victimize, and the theory sections offers justification. You're also making some serious assumptions here: you don't know how I think or what I feel. Kindly avoid informing me what I "want to believe". I'm aware that sociopaths are more successful in business, and I get why people would want to emulate their behavior, but that doesn't make it right. The "theory" section of the sidebar is incredibly long, and thoroughly redundant and incestuous, to drive home this idea that thinking of women in this fashion has a lot of credibility. Please stop it with the strawmen and the false dichotomies.

Trp isn't an open discussion. You're supposed to read and agree to all of the sidebar material before joining the group, and people talk about getting kicked out regularly when they post points of view that detract from that material. It's not an open discussion forum, it's an echo chamber. Don't delude yourself.

[–]ReddishBlack3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I was addressing a point you made about no one being like that (last paragraph). To me, it isn't about victimizing women at all, unless having consensual sex with a woman a crime worthy of victim status.

I put forth no straw men, but just asked you some questions, most of which you chose not to address. Rather I was treated to a rather common story about how a message board about men's interests should somehow change itself to be about you and your feelings. Not once do I see you addressing the readers there with any concern for their interests, yet you expect them somehow to be concerned with yours. Again it is the old BP quagmire of claiming moral superiority, barging into a discussion that you were never invited to in the first place, and trying to dictate the tone of that discussion.

If you are truly their moral superior, why not be the stronger person and offer them some sympathy. Yes, even in spite their supposed sins, which most readers there are not even guilty of. Offer them compassion if you are as developed of character as you seem to believe, and write about what they ought to do with themselves, since you seem to be an expert on what is right and wrong.

I agree with your last point.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I said "virtually no one" is like that. This is also a strawman. The actual prevalence rate of the personality they're describing is 2% of the population. No where near 100%, like they're saying, wouldn't you agree? Certainly not high enough to generalize to all women, not even as a helpful heuristic, so why do it? To poison the readership against women, and generate a false construct that allows the readers to feel ok about using the techniques.

Consensual sex has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Another strawman. The specific training techniques advocate for direct insults, threats, manipulation, and behavioral modification designed to destabilize and even terrorize women. The above quote from the sidebar isn't shy about it's intent, even if you're unwilling to admit it; in fact, the words "victim" and "terrorize" are right there, copied and pasted for you. Rape/pedo threads are common in trp, and make it into this forum often enough.

Idiotically suggesting that disagreeing with you suggests I'm against open discussion and education is yet again, another logical fallacy. Ironically enough, it would seem you're the one with trouble dealing with open discussion seeing how frequently you need to invoke fallacious reasoning rather than actual rebuttal. Again, trp is not a discussion forum, it's an intensely articulated strategy coupled to an ideology that allows for no questioning or freethought. Quit acting like this is /r/philosophy.

Rather I was treated to a rather common story about how a message board about men's interests should somehow change itself to be about you and your feelings.

? Are you really this insecure and vapid? It's one of the hilarious things I've noticed about self-labeled "alphas", they pee themselves and resort to making shit up like little bitches when challenged. The forum appeals to people who are too incapable of acting like adults, and thus need a scapegoat. Well done. You must be so proud.

[–]ReddishBlack1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I never claimed to be an alpha or even a follower of the TRP philosophy.

You can't claim that I am unfairly strawmanning you when you never expressed yourself articulately in the first place. I gave you an opportunity to explain yourself, which you declined, instead choosing to degenerate into a bizarre tirade of personal attacks and accusations of being a rape/pedophilia apologist. I'd like to see where threats are a part of TRP methodology, maybe you can provide them after you sober up from your self righteous, hyperbole induced hysteria. If the goal of TRP is not consensual sex, then what the fuck do you think it is? If anyone needs to pull their head out of the humidity of a subreddit echo chamber, it is you, because you believe some batshit crazy things about the people that visit the red pill.

I also gave you the chance to prove your assumed moral superiority, to which you predictably took the opportunity to emotionally detonate into your world of undeserved self-righteous indignation and delusion.

Until you show some compassion to your "inferiors" you will remain nothing but a hate-spewing, thought policing, bigot, with the predictability of a poorly made subreddit parody bot, and the credibility of a University 1 student in week 3 of their intro philosophy course.

Get outta my face.

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The problem is that guns aren't people. When you say "All guns are like that," you're not dehumanizing a group of people. Especially half the people on Earth.

Look, words are important. Using "All Women are Like That" shifts the blame to womankind as a whole, and not just the subset that is shitty. Tell me, do you think "All men are rapists" is a good phrase? No, I imagine you don't—because you know you're not a rapist (I hope) and it makes you angry you're being called one. Hell, it makes me angry.

If you're going to use language that generalizes a large portion of the population in a negative light, you can't really be surprised when that portion of the population gets angry. It's a natural fucking reaction.

You know what a better phrase would be? "Be wary of people—some are bad." Or something like that. Accomplishes the same thing without being shitty on the surface.

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I.E. All men who are or used to be players are capable of leaving a LTR if he is bored and they are also capable of not wanting to put in effort to make the relationship work. I think that's a useful AMALT warning for women who date player types.

It's a victim mentality. I could be raped on a first date, that's certainly not unheard of, but would it be rational for me to never date or to assume my date is plotting to rape me?

Some women think like that. Shrodingers rapists.

I don't know how other RPers use AWALT, but I don't assume the worst case scenario automatically. I'm just aware of what can happen if I don't take certain actions, e.g. not doing upkeeping on myself can lead to her losing attraction and leaving me. I'm not paranoid about it, and it certainly wouldn't happen immediately and blindside me. But its a good reminder to not neglect my attractiveness and how much fun I'm bringing to the relationship

[–]MsLilithNon-Red Pill1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I.E. All men who are or used to be players are capable of leaving a LTR if he is bored and they are also capable of not wanting to put in effort to make the relationship work. I think that's a useful AMALT warning for women who date player types.

All people are capable of leaving relationships if unfulfilled, or giving way less than the other party. It has nothing to do with players of either gender.

And yes, it's certainly worth remembering that the other party in any LTR is their own person, capable of leaving if they choose. Otherwise you take advantage or stop trying and then yea, obviously things fall apart. I wouldn't stay if unhappy and I wouldn't expect a partner to either. I don't put up with more crap or "try" harder because I'm dating an "alpha" or "player". We're adults, he's with me because he wants me not others, same reason I'm with him.

It's a victim mentality. I could be raped on a first date, that's certainly not unheard of, but would it be rational for me to never date or to assume my date is plotting to rape me?

Some women think like that. Shrodingers rapists.

I know. I asked if it was rational to think that way.

RP typically uses AWALT when a woman cheats, lies, or acts like an entitled cunt, not when they just act like people. That's why I originally drew the "all men are dogs" comparison. I understand your perspective, I have no debate with your view, but I don't think that's typically the sentiment RP is trying to get across, at least not from what I usually see.

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Huh? You don't have to filter out the good experiences with women to confirm, you just have to focus on the bad ones only, specifically, the bad ones that confirm your hypothesis. I've only dated one guy that was truly a bad driver, but every guy I've dated has had some instance of bad driving that I can reference if motivated to do so. It's a question of choosing what to attenuate.

each and every romantic relationship I've had, and all of them have conformed to parts of RP that are useful/apply to me

See? That's exactly what I just described. You can find some single day where a woman acted childishly in every relationship and proudly say to yourself ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT, neglecting that that's not how they acted in general.

In response to your edit, what I'm pointing out is that this is not a rational process.

[–]purple_lockPurplish0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. It sounds like you know my experiences better than I do. Perhaps I just shouldn't participate anymore, if you already know my life better than me.

Seriously? What you're saying is that I've just somehow "forgotten" about all the good experiences I've had with women because...why? Because I wish RP to be true?

Huh? You don't have to filter out the good experiences with women to confirm, you just have to focus on the bad ones only, specifically, the bad ones that confirm your hypothesis. I've only dated one guy that was truly a bad driver, but every guy I've dated has had some instance of bad driving that I can reference if motivated to do so.

Is this what you do? Because I don't do that. How would selectively analyzing my experiences and choosing only a few help me create a strategy that has anything to do with reality?

No, when I talk about my relationships and how they fit RP, I'm talking the whole relationship overall. I'm saying that the majority of their behavior was poor, and they weren't aware of it (hamsters gonna ham). That AWALT applies to them more often than not. Etc.

To be honest, what you're saying is exactly what I used to do, when I was convinced we all just needed more feminism. Selectively picking out the few good instances, and painting a picture of some fairytale in my head, while I got stepped on in reality.

See? That's exactly what I just described. You can find some single day where a woman acted childishly in every relationship and proudly say to yourself ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT, neglecting that that's not how they acted in general.

Perhaps you misunderstood. This is what I said.

each and every romantic relationship I've had, ad all of them have conformed to parts of RP that are useful/apply to me

I didn't say parts of my relationships have conformed to RP, I said the (useful) parts of RP conform to my relationships. That's the whole point, that they weren't acting childish occasionally, it was the majority of the time. They weren't selfish occasionally, they were selfish all the time, except for the rare moments that I used as confirmation bias (hey!) to tell myself the relationship was fair.

That's the type of experiences most RP guys have had, I'd wager.

In response to your edit, what I'm pointing out is that this is not a rational process.

Right, but that's because reality doesn't conform to your hypothesis. Even if you had said "on average, men are worse drivers than women," that wouldn't be correct, because it doesn't reflect reality. However, if you were to say "on average, women are worse drivers than men," that does reflect reality. Isn't life unfair sometimes?

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Title	If AWALT is not accurate, is A18ALT and AHALT not accurate too?
Author	PrimePussyOverRancid
Upvotes	2
Comments	88
Date	July 19, 2015 7:46 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3dv4r2/if_awalt_is_not_accurate_is_a18alt_and_ahalt_not/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-awalt-is-not-accurate-is-a18alt-and-ahalt-not.280898 https://theredarchive.com/post/280898

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