What's the deal with "demise of guys"?

Quintus_Pillus · 2015-05-07T10:14:21+00:00

I think it's quite real and growing, otherwise I believe we wouldn't be getting these shaming articles.

But when I look around at everyday life, the anecdotes don't seem to add up and I don't see many men failing out of life like this story would have us believe.

Are you sure they are not falling out of life? It can be like depression, very hard to spot unless you really know what's going on with their lives. Men would hardly talk about it in public, not even with some close friends.

I am somehow in this situation, although I'm pushing myself to keep being productive (I spend a lot of time and money learning new things), but only one person really knows how big the apathy inside me is. I have learned that, if I try to talk a bit about it with some other close friends, they do their best to avoid getting engaged into it. No one wants to hear about it and I don't blame them for it. So, no chance anyone could tell I'm feeling so apathetic. Not consciously at least.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2015-05-07T08:25:25+00:00

It's just more 'man up' bullshit designed to try and shame men into becoming good dutiful providers for women. It's not going to work either.

Most men are not ambitious, and they certainly don't gravitate towards taking responsibility and raising families. Responsibility is hard and puts a lot of stress and pressure on your life, whereas being irresponsible is easy. Most men's default position is lazy and unproductive, they can enjoy a relatively simple, stress free life, a frugal existence with occasional thrills (porn and video games can provide most of that). This is bad for women and bad for society which is why all the shaming occurs.

The thing is, they've never bothered to ask: 'what's in it for the men? Why should men put themselves through all the pressures and stresses to become ambitious, responsible adults, the kind of men that women want to marry?' I don't see a lot of incentives for men to do that these days. This is why successful, ambitious men, are becoming players and spinning plates, and unsuccessful, unambitious men are just dropping out and turning to porn and video games.

The best response to this 'Demise of guys' bullshit is to give it the attention it deserves: None.

exit_sandman · 2015-05-07T08:33:58+00:00

Which causes me to ask: is the "Demise of guys" legit? Is it just hype?

Hype. But it's cool to have another tool at your disposal to shame men to get back in line when they falter.

Kenee24 · 2015-05-07T07:35:32+00:00

It's a growing minority of men who are not doing what females want them to do, and that terrifies society. Look at japan for the future of this trend. More women go to college than men now. Women are starting to earn more money. Women are finding it harder to get their beta male provider/cash machine, and ohh, that's such a tragedy.

alcockell · 2015-05-07T09:15:03+00:00

I wonder, isn't that a US (Uk?) problem mostly? If I wasn't reading english news I would have never learned of MRA/MGTOW. Same goes for the whole concept of prolonged adolescence.

As you say I don't have much real life example of it too and national news don't talk about it.

wazzup987 · 2015-05-07T12:41:07+00:00

Look at the lower classes, think back to high school how many guy were content with d's because 'this is stupid bullshit'? it the lower classes this is tearing through not the middle and upper classes ... yet

cxj · 2015-05-07T07:58:48+00:00

There are definitely huge amounts of young guys doing jack and shit with their lives. We live in the xbox generation. I knew practically zero guys doing anything productive with their lives until this last year I transferred to college. Even now, I know less guys than girls accomplishing anything.

scummcdirt · 2015-05-07T21:27:41+00:00

Part of it is Christiana Hoff Sommers and her increased popularity thanks to gamer gate.

She wrote the "war on boys", and that book turned out to be disturbingly prophetic.

Because a lot of what she wrote about, is why we are having the recruitment issues with the military. Being on Ritalin pretty much will keep you out now. Its also much harder to lie about it now, than it was 15 years ago.

So there is that, then we have the abysmal marriage rates in England, that has a lot of economists worried.

kick6 · 2015-05-07T16:05:21+00:00

ut when I look around at everyday life, the anecdotes don't seem to add up and I don't see many men failing out of life like this story would have us believe.

You don't see single men in their 30s with jobs at best buy, one bedroom apartments, no dates, tons of video games, and enjoying it?

Cuz I do. All the time. They're not "checking out of life" they're checking out of the roll the groups that are screeching want to fit them to. This "life" they're supposedly checking out of is corporate ladder climbing, working yourself to death, for the sake of a wife and kids. Men are certainly starting to (and the "movement" is gaining steam) decide that there's no value for them in that "life," and that they're perfectly capable of persuing their own interests on much less income, and without the financial baggage of the Cleavers.

Reginleifer · 2015-05-07T07:57:19+00:00

the anecdotes don't seem to add up

For a period of time, it wasn't anecdotal. The great recession saw the collapse of the housing industry triggering job losses amongst male dominated industries such as construction, electricity work, welding (not as much as good welders are always in demand), plumbing, shit like that.... while pink collar jobs like education and nursing were kept in relatively good shape due to government spending, and the near criminal prices that health care providers charge.

So for a while you did see women make massive gains, while men suffered unemployment.

The narrative is not only confined to employment, men are now underrepresented in colleges. (White women are overrepresented) , and the "demise" could probably be measured through homeownership rates, marriage rates, and the age of having children.

Boomerang generation we're called. We're not doing that well compared to our parents and grandparents.

With such failure in achieve even the basics of what makes one a functioning adult (salary, food, shelter, sex), it's not surprising that men are foregoing their politics,their jobs and their women to seek other more accessible pleasures.

We could probably blame this on instability in general. Businesses don't like to invest during bust times, apparently neither do people.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2015-05-07T08:48:44+00:00

According to my personal experiences (outside of the internet world) a lot of young men focus too much on video games and porn and those are the basic things that hold them back.

hippydipster · 2015-05-09T01:36:10+00:00

I'm gen X. We were described the same way. It's something the grandparent generation always says about youths if the day.

The one thing that appears impossible to argue is that marriage is on the decline.

SirNemesis · 2015-05-07T15:08:09+00:00

Male wages have been falling for 40 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07/hamilton2.jpg

cxj · 2015-05-07T07:38:35+00:00

But when I look around at everyday life, the anecdotes don't seem to add up and I don't see many men failing out of life like this story would have us believe.

Because it's damn near impossible to "fall out of life" in a first world country? The government will catch you, wipe your ass and push you forward again, no matter how much of a fuckup you are.

If you want to see people fucking up, look at things that are not government regulated, like relationships, parenthood, personal health, and so on.

Level100ProtWarrior · 2015-05-07T11:17:50+00:00

Society, as a whole, is moving away from preconceived notions of how people need to act. Because men aren't feeling as shoehorned into masculine / stoic /etc stereotypes, they're seen as childish by people who still believe the old propaganda about gender roles. It's a progression of the same phenomena that started when people stopped having kids at 14 by choice. Society is maturing, and the holdouts are kicking and screaming amd dragging their feet. This childish wailing looks like shaming others for doing what they want to do to the outside observer.

Title	What's the deal with "demise of guys"?
Author	UyhAEqbnp
Upvotes	7
Comments	146
Date	May 7, 2015 6:47 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/355ex8/whats_the_deal_with_demise_of_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-the-deal-with-demise-of-guys.282297 https://theredarchive.com/post/282297

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