CMV: Nearly all anti-TRP thought stems from sexist mistrust of men and not TRP positions.

YeahThisIsMyAccount · 2015-04-30T17:02:49+00:00

most of the blue pillers on this sub would fail a red pill exam.

What's a "red pill exam"?

Anyways, I notice that you left out positions like "Women are children" and "women have no loyalty beyond their own narcissism" and "Tattooed women are broken" and "women are incapable of change". Those are the kinds of statements I have issues with.

[deleted] · 2015-04-30T18:07:44+00:00

It seems obvious to me that whichever reason blue pillers have for rejecting the red pill is outside disagreement with our arguments.

Lol no. The issue rises with TRP claiming to be the truth and having little to no evidence backing it up. Anecdata is not evidence. Not to mention that it is a self fulfilling prophecy. Also, you conviniently left out arguments such as "women are children, women are incapable of unconditional love, women are incapable of honor, women are biologically programmed to be dominated," etc. etc.

GridReXX · 2015-04-30T18:05:30+00:00

CMV: Nearly all anti-TRP thought stems from ~~sexist~~ mistrust of ~~men~~ aspie-like men with a lot of rage and not a lot of common sense, and not TRP positions.

FTFY

At the end of the day the majority of the Field Reports and posts I see on TRP seem like they're coming from people with severe mental handicaps.

So when I see something like, "Powering through LMR."

I think "I hope they mean getting her to the point where she wants to have sex with you and is fully aware and adamant about fucking you. Getting her here... 'OMG fuck me nowwww!'"

But instead I see idiots on TRP who think it means overpowering her. Some think it means "no means yes." No you idiot. No means no in the moment she says it. That means stop accelerating, and more often than not she will attempt to ramp things back up herself if she actually wants to fuck you.

For men who are so fearful of "false rape charges," you would think they would only focus on fucking women who actually want to fuck them. It's bizarre.

So you are correct in assuming that my dislike of TRP stems from my distrust. Though my distrust isn't sexist. I don't distrust men. I distrust idiots.

nomdplume · 2015-04-30T16:34:32+00:00

I'm more concerned with the deeper question which is the question of what premises they use to say that the red pill theories are false, since none of those theories seem to be "TRP's argument uses X premise, X premise is false for Y reason."

To be fair (for some reason), I do think that BPers often do try to argue against TRP arguments using this debate tactic.

What it mostly looks like (IME), is "TRP's argument uses X premise, X premise is ~~false~~ cannot be viable because there is no way to falsify that premise/there is no way anyone can know that."

They can, in good faith, feel they are offering a logically sound rebuttal, since it is very hard to provide objective or empirical evidence for what TRP claims to be "true."

What is missed in this, however (IMO), is that TRP truths are much more ontological truths than they are empirical/objective truths. The standard of what constitutes "truth" is different for TBPers and TRPers.

Which is why I caution TRP to not rely too heavily on "scientific" facts/evidence in advocating the RP premise, since, like most of social science, you will never be able to measure most of the elements involved in sexual dynamics empirically. You can know a phenomenon exists, but you may never know why it exists, or in what quantity.

Finding a study that backs an RP "truth" can be very interesting and informative, but the premise of RP does not require empirical evidence to be considered true, as it deals with a qualitative problem and not a quantitative problem. People will continue to act on attraction regardless of whether anyone can prove why they are doing it.

You cannot prove a piece of artwork is "an inspired masterpiece" by empirical measures, and you can't prove that someone is "an inspiring lover" by empirical measure, either.

cherryblue12 · 2015-04-30T21:25:10+00:00

So are you saying that it is impossible to criticize TRP without being sexist against men?

In other words, is there any criticism of TRP that you would listen to without attributing it to misandry?

haircombsnightmare · 2015-04-30T21:18:02+00:00

At some point, I'm not even really concerned with educating them anymore.

Oh, don't worry, I'd never hire you as a teacher.

IRScientist · 2015-05-01T15:54:17+00:00

Personally, I wish you'd shut up about science. I mean, listening to most of you talk, it's clear the only wet lab you've encountered was a labrador retriever after a bath. And we have enough problems with scientific illiteracy in the US (anti-vaccers, climate change deniers). We don't need your "Science is feminist marxist bullshit except for this evo. psyche paper that agrees with us" added to the mix. Science isn't here to get your back in an argument, it's here to determine how the world works and, if it can, make our lives better. A lot of science happens just for the sake of knowing. It's also slow and weighed down with judicious conclusions, which is why people prefer pop science. The problem is: they can't tell the difference between actual science and pop science.

And here comes TRP, with its pseudoscience and hysterical tone telling men THEY'RE THE VICTIM AND WE HAVE THE ANSWER. Bonus: Real science (not the feminized bullshit most researchers are doing) has your back!

Yeah... There are a lot of misogynists out there. Most of them have the courtesy to leave science out of it.

[deleted] · 2015-05-01T00:22:54+00:00

First of all, trp is not "men". Trp is a very small subset of men.

Second, trp claims that its a safe haven for men who are upset with the state of women. But I what I see in the trp forum is both new and old members of trp saying the worst things about women and no one corrects them. No one is leading the battalion.

If you wandered into a forum of all women and saw things like this (that went unchallenged), what would you think? I have seen the male versions of the things below in trp, and I'm going to phrase them as though a woman is saying them from her perspective:

"Powering through LMR is a thing." (The female version)

Men don't really know what they want. If he has last-minute resistance to say, having sex without a condom when he knows you're not on any contraceptives (and you really want a baby), you just have to apply techniques to loosen his resistance.

"Sexual strategy being amoral means that morals don't apply to dating/relationships/sex." (The female version)

Sexual strategy is amoral. You shouldn't rape a guy or get physically violent but everything else is open slather. I'm plating four chumps right now. They all think I'm exclusive to them. It's okay to tell a guy you're interested in a relationship with him and then just hump him and dump him. It's okay to ask for expensive jewellery and trips away while you know you really think he's a chump and won't be staying with him very long. All single women should do it. It makes you feel more like a woman because you get all that male attention and you get gifts too! When it comes time to husband-up a guy, ladies (a hot, worthy guy - not one of your plate chumps), then don't breathe a word of your past. Make it sound like you've only have two LTRs. Make sure you used a fake name and ID with all your previous chumps.

"Red pillers refuse to leave women alone."

???

"Red pillers feel entitled to sex." (The female version)

Men who jump on the vagina carousel are disgusting slut-boys. Who wants their used-up, mangled penises? I want a man who is able to keep it in his pants. I want a man with the best possible sperm to have children with - not that mutation-infested over-30 junk sperm. All the best looking men are going for the hot women. Here's some evo psych studies on it. Sexually-hypergamous men is what we women have to deal with. Let's have a mutual rage session. It's why I can't find a decent, hot guy to date. Because they're all after the hot women. Ok, girls, let's go out and get the best plastic surgery there is and trick men into thinking we're hot. Men hate our group because we're trying to trick them. They'll only realize we were actually ugly all along when they have our ugly babies.

"Red pillers attempt to control women." (The female version)

All men are children and need to be led by women. We need to make the important decisions for them. Amirite, ladies?? I've been upping my levels of dread on my husband all year. So far I've trained him to do the laundry, wash the floors and give me oral until his face aches. He was a really good boy last Monday and gave me a back rub without asking. So as a reward I told him we'd go to the movies on Friday night. But he's still not showing enough enthusiasm when he gives me oral. I'm thinking of upping the dread even further. I'm going to start flirting with X in front of him and if that doesn't snap him into line who knows what I might be forced to do next. What do you think, girls?

"Red pillers are sexually aggressive." (The female version)

I tied up the guy I dated last night and then sat on his face until I came. He struggled and couldn't breathe but was okay with it in the end. I do this to all my dates. They're all okay with it and you should do it too. Show them you're a real woman. (This one is a direct analogy of an rp user who said he forces his penis down the throat of all his dates and throat fucks them until he comes, and that all men should do this. This went unchallenged.)

"Hypergamy means wanting to date your best option." (The female version)

trp say women are realists who pretend romance to get the best guy they can (hypergamy) and that men are romantics who pretend to be realists. Well hey now, let's exploit men for all we get. Because we're always trying to exploit, exploit, exploit. It's what we do. It's who we are. Meanwhile, why are women who know nothing about our grand unified theory of men snapping up men? What do they know that we don't? Quick, women of our mealy-mouthed group, to the bat-mobiles and out to conduct field reports!!!!

blametheboogie · 2015-04-30T20:20:36+00:00

TRP has some good points but I don't take it so seriously simply because there is no proof. If it really works for some people then it's fine by me, I prefer to think independently and not follow an ideology like this.

Also, don't be naive enough to think that men cannot be controlling, sexually aggressive, entitled to sex etc. Nobody said that all men are this way .

Title	CMV: Nearly all anti-TRP thought stems from sexist mistrust of men and not TRP positions.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	6
Comments	81
Date	April 30, 2015 4:05 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/34ewuk/cmv_nearly_all_antitrp_thought_stems_from_sexist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-nearly-all-anti-trp-thought-stems-from-sexist.282409 https://theredarchive.com/post/282409

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