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Do teenagers and 20 something women, and even post-wall women really seek alpha men for alpha fucks or good looking men? Seems to me like it's the latter.

[deleted]

March 31, 2014

8 upvotes

/r/PurplePillDebate

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Title	Do teenagers and 20 something women, and even post-wall women really seek alpha men for alpha fucks or good looking men? Seems to me like it's the latter.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	8
Comments	61
Date	March 31, 2014 1:34 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/21trd5/do_teenagers_and_20_something_women_and_even/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-teenagers-and-20-something-women-and-even-post.285999 https://theredarchive.com/post/285999

Comments

[–]Archwinger[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

As much as we like to pretend we're a deep and highly evolved society, looks matter a lot. If a guy says hello to a girl at a bar, his hair, facial symmetry, and physique are the only factors that determine whether he's creepy or whether his greeting is welcome. Everyone has different standards of appearance, but good looks are 90% of that initial attraction.

Now, a good looking guy or girl can still screw things up pretty early in a conversation by being a dufus and demonstrating a lack of social aptitude, but someone who isn't good looking at all won't even have the chance.

Where The Red Pill focuses on all of this is that you can't really help your face or being short, or anything else like that. But you can work out like a fiend, get a sharp haircut, and dress well. If you're not good looking, you can mitigate that somewhat with a hot body, confidence, success, and having interesting shit to talk about. You'll still have more than the occasional girl who won't give you the time of day when you say hello, but you'll go miles farther than an ugly guy with no game at all.

[–]masterrodPops all pills when necessary. And keeps a heavy stash of RPs.1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

As much as we like to pretend we're a deep and highly evolved society, looks matter a lot. If a guy says hello to a girl at a bar, his hair, facial symmetry, and physique are the only factors that determine whether he's creepy or whether his greeting is welcome. Everyone has different standards of appearance, but good looks are 90% of that initial attraction.

Behavior & social proof s more important than looks. Looks are just confirmation. For example, a well respected guy in a circle of a woman's friends has a leg up on some hot looking guy any day of the week.

Now, a good looking guy or girl can still screw things up pretty early in a conversation by being a dufus and demonstrating a lack of social aptitude, but someone who isn't good looking at all won't even have the chance.

An ugly guy must learn how to make himself appealing enough to proposition. His voice among all things can bring him favor.

Where The Red Pill focuses on all of this is that you can't really help your face or being short, or anything else like that. But you can work out like a fiend, get a sharp haircut, and dress well. If you're not good looking, you can mitigate that somewhat with a hot body, confidence, success, and having interesting shit to talk about. You'll still have more than the occasional girl who won't give you the time of day when you say hello, but you'll go miles farther than an ugly guy with no game at all.

Of course. A lady wants to know that you can make her feel the way she wants to feel. Behavior lets a lady know a man can. That's really the point.

[–]Archwinger[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]masterrodPops all pills when necessary. And keeps a heavy stash of RPs.1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you don't meet a woman's minimum standard for looks, you'll never get far enough into a conversation to demonstrate your awesome behavior. You're creepy and unwanted from the first hello.

Not true at all. If you lack her standards doesn't matter really. You just need a forum, or platform, to demonstrate high value. Besides you can't where she is mentally. She may be questioning her standards all together. Most people don't have hard standards. Unless they have some predisposition like being very wealthy or a celebrity. You are more likely to shunned by social circle problems, than looks.

The exception to this, as you've noted, is if you're already known in a woman's social circle. If you're ugly as heck, but popular, accepted, and pre-selected among her peers, such that she'd get major points for convincing you to fuck her, she suddenly won't see you as ugly.

They don't have even really know you. Respect goes a long way.

[–]spongegloss00Purple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]MissPearlEditor of frequent typos.0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]spongegloss00Purple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, because I was obviously referring to a husband of 23 years.

If my current SO gets bald and fat (well, the bald thing he can't control- the fat thing we both plan to control as far as our age allows us, but I've met many-a fit middle aged person) of course I wouldn't care. I guess that's the husband/wife goggles thing.

I'm obviously referring to meeting someone for the first time, if single, and still my age. I'm sure you knew that already, but it's in your interest to attack me personally, telling me I have a loose vagina and that I'm "unstable" or whatever, just to make yourself feel better (you realize being "too tight for sex" is a rare medical condition, not the case of seemingly every BP woman on here, right?)

In all seriousness, since you can't let the sex thing go, I don't genuinely believe he'll run off and leave me for someone else if I say no to sex one night. Sex is emotional for me even if not physically satisfying every single time so that's why I say yes regardless. But I do think that denying your husband sex for YEARS on end, without a legit medical reason (this was what I initially was referring to, but leave it to BP women to misquote me) is, in my opinion, a legitimate reason to find someone else. Not to cheat, but to divorce, sure (although if someone cheated for this reason, I would still pretty much understand it). If my husband stopped having sex with me for no legit medical reason, I think that would be grounds for divorce.

[–]MissPearlEditor of frequent typos.0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]spongegloss00Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MissPearlEditor of frequent typos.0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

1) Since you seem to want to continue this discussion instead of choosing to ignore each other. The full paragraph was this:

It's not really worthwhile unless the other person is enthusiastic and engaged. Which is not to say that lazy person sex isn't fun, but that tends to still governed by a measure of enthusiasm. Also your vagina may be looser than mine. Okay, that's not intended to be a dig on you, I mean literally speaking it's extremely painful to me and occasionally even painful to my male partner to do penis in vagina sex if I'm not properly aroused because I not only have a strong pelvic floor, but a stubborn one.

So yes, if you find it easy to insert penises than I do, your vagina is literally looser than mine. That's not a value judgement on you, if you read the next paragraph on that post I get into other variables about sex that make people inclined to refuse it, since you claimed to be utterly mystified.

Similarly if this was a discussion on why women might prefer pants that were specifically tailored for women, it would be relevant to the discussion that a woman with wider hips would not be as happy just buying boys jeans. Nobody is saying your vagina doubles as a wind sock, or that men don't want your vagina. Simply that NAVALT. :P

2) You bring your relationship up a lot, as an example in this subreddit to explain your frame of reference. In this line, it is unfair of you to object to someone else bringing up your relationship, especially when it is topical, because if we hadn't gotten into this digression about genitals, the point there is that if you are interacting with people as something other than in a very limited way, part of not feeling anxious is knowing that even a "perfect" person is just happening to currently be manifesting in a state that's on a continuum with lots of awkward, less pretty states along the way.

[–]spongegloss00Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, I don't think I ever wanted to ignore each other (if I said that, I'm sorry). It's a debate sub and sometimes I get a little angry. It blows over eventually, as I hope it does with everyone.

1.) I see what you meant about the vag thing now. lol. You didn't mention you had vaginismus though (I'm v. familiar with that disorder) so had you mentioned that, it would have come off a little better. The way it came off was "No offense, but I'm super tight and sexy, and I guess you must just be loose! No offense!" Again, now I see you didn't mean it that way, but to be honest of all the girls who have discussed their vaginas with me (weirdly, more than you'd think) none of them have vaginismus and all of them claim to be "suuuper tight". One, who has sex regularly, claimed to be too tight for tampons. Sometimes I think it's absurd, and sometimes it makes me feel really insecure for not being "super tight" (although tbh, I think if vaginismus isn't at play, it's mostly a looseness/dryness/arousal thing, since none of us have had kids and we're all the same age- I feel "too tight" if I'm dry too). Anywy, that's more info than you needed I'm sure, but the endless tight-bragging I hear from other women has led me to be a little hair-trigger about that. It's like the guys who brag about having big dicks, when you know most of them are just average.

2.) I'm having a little trouble understanding your second point, but I can concede it's fair to bring up my relationship, but the way you did it felt accusatory and "saviory". It's also a hair trigger thing with me since I'm very used to BP women trying to psychoanalyze me online and condemn me for wanting to look good for my partner and please him sexually (if I were a man, my desire to do those two things would be praised) so again, it just rubbed me the wrong way, but it's fine now.

[–]khmr3312 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

I'll admit that I stumbled upon this on r/all/new... the fact that any of this even exists fascinates me.

I had to read this a few times to grasp all of the lingo... I still don't understand what a post-wall woman is, still curious about that.

Keep in mind that I'm in my late 30's, married for 10 years, so running around trying to bang everything that moved got old a long time ago...

But what you're describing here... the men and the women you're describing...

Those are stupid people.

Why would you aspire to be them or try to interact with them? They are fully invested in that Bronze Age "women as property" mentality, which is great if you're interested in marrying property and not a fully formed, educated and equal person.

Seems to me that TRP's goal is to hack the largely subconscious mechanics of attraction. That might mean you have sex with more women, but not necessarily more women who are honestly interested in you. I assure you that kind of work isn't worth the effort. You can figure out if a woman is into you without trying to sleep with her... it's a lot less expensive and a lot less stressful.

When you're young, not getting laid seems like the end of the world... it's not. You've got more important shit to do.

Get out there and do something, stop hanging out with shitheads and stop worrying about women.

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I still don't understand what a post-wall woman is, still curious about that.

This is how TRP defines it: "The point in a woman's life where her ego and self-assessed view of her sexual market value exceed her actual sexual market value; the beginning of the decline. Usually occurs as a wake-up shock to women when they realize that their power over men was temporary and that their looks are fading. This usually results with first denial and then a sudden change in priority towards looking for a husband. Even after hitting the wall, many women will squander a few more precious years testing her SMV with alphas to double-check, hoping her perceived decline was a fluke, this will make her even more bitter when she finally has to settle for a worse-beta than she could've gotten before because of squandering her youth."

If you're interested in this kind of discussion I heavily recommend looking into the redpill subreddit and just reading through things. Here is probably a good place to start. If it's not what you are interested in, then feel free to not do that.

[–]khmr332 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]CallMeMrBadGuy2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Ignoring the weirdo shithead geezer talk at the top and getting back on target Ive got 3 sisters. 22-28 now. All 3 of them have gone after alpha quality men. More along in terms of status however rather than looks. Looks play a factor but I think it's just an initial factor for them. Im sick of hearing there he's cheating on me, just using me for sex, and the other I dont know what she says. Im under the impression that "a just-handsome guy would trump an average looking (face wise) male with alpha qualities." isnt true. It may get someone's foot in the door but when it comes to the personality I think that's what really keeps them coming back. One of my sisters is a domineering hoodrat so I think she actually holds frame better than my other 2. My other 2 sisters are absolutely weak-willed and aint alpha-ing a man.

The shit about women griping "men are dogs" trope rung true (at least for my latter 2 sisters) for so many years that I just stopped paying attention to any tears, any attempts to talk about shit guys do to them. Those "dark qualities" always attracted them. To make it worse, I only partially pay attention to my youngest sister and she is/was messing with some older dude who doesnt even have a car (prolly no job too), never took her on a proper date (her words), and told her he was using her for the sex (her words). Yet she pines (or at least was) over this same motherfucker time and time again. Seen enough similar shit that Im convinced looks only take you so far. Though, it makes you unstoppable if you have both.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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My opinion as well is that what TRP recommends as aspiration qualities betas should strive for are really beta provider characteristics, like having game (initiating the courtship to jump start a relationship), holding frame (a good husband should be a firm decision maker), being financially successful (obviously), being jacked (to carry out the hard labor around the house), and being groomed and fashionable (to present to friends and families). They seem to be qualities that a good boyfriend or husband should have.

I totally agree. If a person is ugly, they can make up for it to varying degrees by being an exemplary person in other ways and the chances are still good that someone will want them.

In the same way, someone who's a total failure of a person isn't going to be able to make up for that with good looks alone, the majority of people would rather get with someone stable and average than an attractive mess, especially if they're integrating their lives. There's only so much you can do to improve or degrade your lot in life, a 2/10 in looks is never going to score a 10/10 without bringing other valuable characteristics to the table that make up for their unattractiveness and accept that their partner is attracted to them for reasons that aren't physical.

That said, most people have a baseline level of attractiveness they won't date beneath regardless of what else the person has to offer.

[–]W-Z-Rself-hating terper0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]spongegloss00Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it's a combo. No obese guy could be "alpha" enough to make me suddenly attracted to him. For me it's like there's a level of looks that need to be reached for initial attraction (and that level isn't super high or anything) but then after the fact, I'll be more turned on by how a man acts. And I do like masculine men, but many of the tactics discussed on TRP fall under the category of "jerk game" and as a women with zero interest in "Risk" and "danger" and casual sex I find that really unappealing. I like the more old-fashioned type of masculine man. But above all, a guy cannot be too serious or be unable to laugh at himself.

Also I should say that really rich men are kind of the exemption, but women aren't necessarily physically attracted to them (I find it hard to believe anyone actually thinks Donald Trump is hot) but rather that it's a trade of money for looks which is at least temporarily mutually beneficial.

In addition, really good looking guys often don't need to worry as much about their "game" because women are drawn to them anyway. It's the average looking guys who focus more on that, which is why sometimes they can be more appealing. Other times, their previous rejections make them bitter so their game just comes off as being a jerk. But I know good looking guys who have to put in zero effort with women, they barely even have to talk.

[–]garybuseysawakeningIron Pill0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]spongegloss00Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GridReXXit be like that0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OfSpock0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They possibly don't care but I think they are confusing "is attracted to" and "dates or marries".

I've read the book 'Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll" which is on evolutionary biology but dishes it out more evenly than TRP. They analysed Australian Aboriginal cultures and found that the powerful men of the tribe who approved marriages, married women who were on average 17 years younger than them. For everyone else, it was a seven year age difference.

In America, the age gap is three years, with two being the most common. Data from other countries shows that the age gap narrows as society becomes more equal.

IMO, the data suggests that women date or marry older men when men make the decisions as to who gets married, or when they rely on men for money. When they can marry who they want, they don't choose older men. They don't choose younger either, they go for someone near their own age.

[–]sh1vRed Pill Man0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But my impression is women in general would rather go for the guy with the handsome face (or someone "cute" for teenagers) than your male with TRP alpha qualities.

What ethnicity are you? Among Asian girls I know, a lot are more inclined towards a pretty/handsome face in a man over physique, fitness, etc.

Other than that my impression is pretty much the exact opposite of yours. I know plenty of rich guys and built, aggressive guys who always have a hot girlfriend regardless of ugly features.

I think the handsome dude with lovely facial features comprises a majority of the 20% who get to bang 80% of women (putting aside the dubiousness of these figures).

Either you accept the premise that a minority of men are getting the majority of the pussy or you don't. If you don't, this whole post was a futile exercise on your part.

My opinion as well is that what TRP recommends as aspiration qualities betas should strive for are really beta provider characteristics, like having game (initiating the courtship to jump start a relationship), holding frame (a good husband should be a firm decision maker), being financially successful (obviously), being jacked (to carry out the hard labor around the house), and being groomed and fashionable (to present to friends and families). They seem to be qualities that a good boyfriend or husband should have.

They're actually qualities that make you a more capable, effective person in general. A lot of dudes are so busy fawning over pussy or drowning their sorrows in games or whatever that they don't realize the inherent value in self improvement. Meanwhile, the logical end of your arguments is basically chop your own fucking nuts off, get facial surgery and use cosmetics like some kind of youtube personality. And avoid masculine behavior because chicks love a pretty face... Uh huh.

As your wife or girlfriend fucks the handsome dude behind your back. Thoughts?

Pretty convinced you're trolling. Your arguments seem to have no real point or message other than "TRP wrong lol mad cuz not handsome." Ok, have fun with that. What's bad is that a few blue pillers who would otherwise know better will probably agree with you in their haste to take a jab at TRP.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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