Have we gone too far?

Romans8_18-39 · 2018-12-05T03:42:24+00:00

[permanently deleted]

BrotherChad · 2018-12-04T21:33:01+00:00

Fornication is fornication...regardless of what your future plans are with someone. It is sin. Confess it as such and take the necessary steps to set boundaries of intimacy for your relationship. Saying you can't afford marriage (you can do it for cheap) is a poor excuse to justify sexual immorality.

Deep_Strength · 2018-12-04T21:44:32+00:00

I am still new to red pill and I say this information to give you more of a background on my situation. Both virgins, both originally wanted to wait until marriage to do anything sexually intimate, both crossed that boundary.

Now, Have I broken frame? Am I damaging my relationship with God? Is it too late to change the course of the relationship if this is indeed bad? Part of me feels this is not wrong and it should not be this complicated, however, what does God think about it, not what Church Culture thinks!

Your 'frame' should be that of Jesus. So no fornication prior to marriage.

No, it's not too late. We're all humans and we all make mistakes. What matters if what you do when you make a mistake.

I do see her as my future wife and I am making plans to make that happen; she too. Are what we doing is wrong? I don't see any passage in the Bible condemning couples who plan to get married (who are serious, not like "oh I love you, lets get married someday) and they end up having sex; I know it is not ideal (like divorce) but is it a sin?

Yes, it's a sin.

Here's the problem with your logic like most couples have (aside from the fact that it's sin). We're going to get married so it's OK to have sex. We're going to get married so it's OK to live together. Except you're not married and once that cat is out of the bag, you're being satisfied with things that should only be saved for marriage.

Plus, you have introduced sex into the equation which makes you BLIND to any of the potential faults and sins of the other and clouds your judgment from making good decisions. It's extremely easy to put a woman on the pedestal as an idol over God if you do this.

My dilemma is if what I am doing is sinful, what do I do? If I stop physical intimacy, it will surely hurt us, more her than me for she has told me in time past that her love language is touch and a simple kiss is enough for her to get the engines revving. If we cut that out, she says will have to adjust how she loves me and see me more as a friend than a lover. I have awakened love brethren, and I fear that stopping it may do more harm than good, if so, how do I navigate us out of it, if it is not wrong then I would be happy to continue where we are--but is it truly wrong to be sexually intimate with someone you are actively planning to marry?

Bad logic.

If you stop, you are leading the relationship in the right direction. A wife who is seeking after God will appreciate and respect the fact that you admitted a mistake and are leading in the right direction. If she does not, then you probably don't want to marry her anyway because she loves sin/feelings more than she loves God.

So stop the physical intimacy. Lead away from that direction. Make sure you are covering all of the non-sexual issues and other things first which is good as physical intimacy will less cloud your judgment.

If money is an issue, you can get a job while in school too. You still haven't said anything your mission for God and what that is in the Church. That is an important component.

SIC_redditcruiser · 2018-12-04T21:49:01+00:00

Now, Have I broken frame? Am I damaging my relationship with God? Is it too late to change the course of the relationship if this is indeed bad?

If you are in Christ’s frame (waiting for sexual intimacy until marriage), then yes, you have broken frame. It is not too late to change the course of the relationship.

Part of me feels this is not wrong and it should not be this complicated, however, what does God think about it, not what Church Culture thinks!

All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the spirit. Prov 16:2 There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death. Prov 14:12

I do see her as my future wife and I am making plans to make that happen; she too. Are what we doing is wrong? I don't see any passage in the Bible condemning couples who plan to get married (who are serious, not like "oh I love you, lets get married someday) and they end up having sex; I know it is not ideal (like divorce) but is it a sin?

It’s wrong. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1 Cor 7:8-9

Paul is pretty clear here. Burn with passion implies sex outside of marriage. There are many many others. It really just sounds like you’re justifying your feelings here.

My dilemma is if what I am doing is sinful, what do I do?

Flee sexual temptation. Re-consecrate yourselves to the Lord, put some boundaries up, and each of you should get some accountability.

If I stop physical intimacy, it will surely hurt us, more her than me as she has told me her love language is touch and a simple kiss is enough for her to get the engines revving.

If that genuinely is her love language then she would be a touchy feely person with everyone. Typically, I have found this to be true with some Latin American women, but not really with American women. Most likely she is just saying that as an excuses to touch you. Not really a bad things, but just be aware of this.

If we cut that out, she says will have to adjust how she loves me and see her more as a friend than a lover.

That’s fine for now. Lovers are reserved for marriage. In the end she will respect you for holding frame. Women desire a man with a rock solid frame, even if they openly argue against it. When you have broken frame for a while it will be harder to re-establish frame. Most women fight men on this when the guy tries to re- establish his frame.

I have awakened love brethren, and I fear that stopping it may do more harm than good, if so, how do I navigate us out of it, if it is not wrong then I would be happy to continue where we are--but is it truly wrong to be sexually intimate with someone you are actively planning to marry?

I think I have adequately addressed most of this. In the end, either move up your wedding date to ASAP to avoid sexual temptation (and re-consecrate yourselves + ect until the wedding night) or break up. There is no point in doing anything in between. Also lack of a decision is a decision in itself. Paul is super clear with this one. Wither you value the things of this world (waiting until you are out of college, financially stable, the stars to line up perfectly, hamster, hamster, hamster, et) or you value your relationship with. It’s up to you how you want to lead the relationship. Most of your questions have already been answered in the sidebar so I will just give you the links to where you can find more in-depth answers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/85wf8w/is_sex_outside_of_marriage_a_sin_an_official/

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/6ryyun/a_question_on_rtheredpill/dl9vflx/

https://www.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/7koh8d/113_christian_frame_part_1_an_introduction/

https://www.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/7l3wq2/113_christian_frame_part_2_frame_in_practice/

lololasaurus · 2018-12-05T08:32:13+00:00

Yes, you've gone too far.

Worse, though, she doesn't think so. That is a huge red flag.

I was looking through old emails. I met my wife while I was getting divorced. Brothers, I was a wicked fellow. My wife's boss encouraged her to send me a Mark Driscoll sermon, because he was discipling her and, reading between the lines, I think he wanted to ward off any more of the sort of men she was seeing. He was right. I didn't have overt bad intentions per se but I was a raging pagan in 'murican moralistic therapeutic deism clothing.

Only thing is, I humored her because I was getting sex from her and watched this video (his sermon on Luke the second chapter, John the Baptizer), and I heard the Gospel, and my heart was made new. Next thing you know I watched 4 sermons, 6, 8. Then I started emailing putting the brakes on. Not nearly enough. But I started pushing back against fornicating with each other, talking about marriage, etc.

Her response at the time was that our "love" made it pure and she'd try but she didn't really think it was wrong because we loved each other and ugh writing this I realize what an immature idiot I was and how much discernment I lacked.

Over time I grew in the faith, and she walked with me for a time, to be sure.

But then the feminist "Christians" got her. Now she believes everything and nothing, constantly throws shade on the rest of us when we affirm a final judgement, the idea that obedience to God is related in any way to bring a Christian (I do not hold to a works based salvation in any way, except for the finished work of Christ, to be clear), etc. And she's moving out, because Evangelical Christianity is abusive, and I'm supposedly abusive for "sinfully" believing she should be my consent to put the marriage into 60-80k of student loan debt so she can pursue a social sciences degree.

If your girlfriend doesn't understand the gravity of sin, you are in for a very hard time, brother. It's one thing to fall and be granted repentance. It's another thing entirely to fall and try and justify yourself.

I suggest studying the book 'Holiness' by J.C. Ryle with her. You'll find out pretty quickly if this is immaturity or a ticking timebomb, I suspect.

Chinchilla_the_Hun · 2018-12-04T23:32:00+00:00

Marriage is not your mission. It very likely can be your vocation, and a means for God to sanctify you in this life, though it's not your mission. Don't confuse those two and sacrifice the first thing for the second thing.

Also, the fruits of marriage are not yet yours, so don't go enjoying them before it's time. If she's not yours, she's someone else's.

Earl_Harbinger · 2018-12-04T22:05:34+00:00

we both know we want to get married, the trouble is this; because of school and our circumstance we have no money to do so.

Why do you need a lot of money, or to wait until college is over, to get married?

I would recommend setting a date, maybe a month from now or so, and have a very simple, very cheap wedding. Until then, abstain.

chriscowley · 2018-12-05T19:02:01+00:00

The is significant research that likelihood of divorce is proportional to the cost of the wedding.

Don't be ashamed to do it on the cheap.

InSearchOfLogos · 2018-12-06T19:41:33+00:00

There is a lot of different advice on here for what you’re asking. It all seems to be valid from each perspective. I’ve read your post several times and I am having trouble figuring out exactly what it is your wanting.

You seem to feel some conviction for not holding your complete sexual purity and you stated she did the same thing. Realize a woman desires a man she can look up to. You have made yourself look weak on that account. Not good. This could cause trust issues later on regardless on what you decide.

I’m not going to tell you any advice on what to do. You need to decide on your own terms and be willing to OYS regardless of what comes with your decision. Just know that your position with this question is a position of flesh and weakness. It’s not going to be easy either way you go because of your starting point.

God bless

RPCJoeMak · 2018-12-11T03:39:06+00:00

I posted a long comment in regard to your post. But I had to make a post of it in the main section becasue I had over 1000 words. Please go there in the main section if you want to read my comments.

Have we gone too far?

I posted a long comment in regard to your post. But I had to make a post of it in the main section becasue I had over 1000 words. Please go there in the main section if you want to read my comments.

Keep your head up man.

Joe Mak

PMC Member

Title	Have we gone too far?
Author	StrivingforTruth116
Upvotes	13
Comments	22
Date	December 4, 2018 8:43 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/a34nwv/have_we_gone_too_far/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/have-we-gone-too-far.301581 https://theredarchive.com/post/301581