Are surgeries and hormones really want Trans People need?

2020-02-04T11:04:59+00:00

Removed for off topic

CatchPhraze · 2020-02-04T06:41:45+00:00

Real trans people should get all the help they need. I don't think they should be prejudged when it comes to regular employment or platonic realsionships but it's valid to have preferences that exclude them. I think feelings of never belonging cause more damage then the transition or disphoria, medication is easy to give, acceptance is harder.

However

I think genderfluid is a crock of horseshit and is just people rejecting gender stereotypes and wanting to feel special for it.

NockerJoe · 2020-02-04T06:05:17+00:00

I have a friend with pretty bad ADD and he says it's not about curing the problem so much as making it manageable while having the least horrible medication possible. He supposes transgenderism is the same way in that there's no magical solution to make it go away, just mitigate the issues that come with it.

2020-02-04T08:08:35+00:00

literally could not give less of a fuck. i didn't "need" a nosejob but it definitely enriched my life lol. of the trans people ive known personally i can see they are probably better off now than they were before. ur not really proposing an alternative treatment method and also not all trans people get surgery

i don't believe transwomen are "really" women or transmen are "really" men but i see the validity in actually getting off of your ass and living a life thats best for you vs. wallowing in your misery like other ppl

lopapew · 2020-02-04T07:01:58+00:00

Personally, I think that the suicide rate is so high in the transgender community due to being socially ostracized. I think if we as a society were more accepting of transgender individuals, they wouldn’t feel so alone. I think this isn’t a problem with the transition itself, but how we treat the individual who is transitioning. If you look at more common mental health conditions like depression and anxiety, it is so much more difficult to cope with the condition due to the stigma surrounding mental health disorders. You feel you can’t talk about it or you’ll be judged which only increases the isolation. This stigma is so much higher for transgender individuals. If we as a society can become more welcoming and accepting, I believe the “treatment” of medically transitioning would be more effective and the suicide rate would decrease.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2020-02-04T08:08:26+00:00

No, surgery is not the answer.. Kids should also NOT be given hormones or surgeries..

PrincepsOmni · 2020-02-04T06:30:32+00:00

If we were talking about any other disorder or disease, and stated that the currently preferred treatment had a 60% suicide/death rate we'd be rushing to look for other forms of treatment as a matter of urgency.

Instead we're pushing for more people to have surgery and/or hormones, encouraging children and young people to do it, and actively deplatforming anyone who questions this.

This tells me there's no interest in successful treatment...which would involve removing all feelings of Dysphoria in the first place, without the need for surgery or hormones.

NarniaFox · 2020-02-04T06:25:28+00:00

What do you propose?

2020-02-04T07:21:53+00:00

50 years from now sex reassignment surgery will be looked at the way lobotomies are today. A barbaric, idiotic practice that no one had the balls to say no to.

Imagine a patient walks into a psychiatrist's office with cotard delusion and the shrink responds by shooting him in the head. "You thought you were dead, and now you really are! Psychosis solved."

Or someone walks in with body integrity dysphoria and the doctor hacks off all 4 of their limbs, blinds them and injects them with HIV. "You had unwanted limbs and wanted to be disabled, who is society to tell you no??"

Like... what level of retardation do you have to be operating at to call that medicine? In a sane world, sex reassignment surgery would be outlawed as medical malpractice, and any doctor who performs one would lose their license and be thrown in jail. But the left wants to push anything that cuts against gender norms/gender traditionalism, no matter how deranged and harmful it is. So they screech at anyone who dares criticize their Dr. Mengele bullshit and accuse us of being transphobes.

We're seeing kids get drugged up and chemically neutered, then having their genitals mangled -- all so that their upper class white moms can show how woke they are.

FereallyRed · 2020-02-04T09:26:50+00:00

Who cares??? They're a sliver population. Just as relevant to discuss the dick sheaths of the Dani. There will always be mentally damaged people out there

Trannies just squeak loudly, so they get a lot of grease. Guaranteed news story if you add sex to weird to conflict... tune in at 11!!

~~Sheeple.~~

persianexmuzzie · 2020-02-04T09:34:16+00:00

Finally someone with common sense. Shame feelings stand above facts and research these days. In 50 years pedophiles will be the new trans, watch my words.

akaean · 2020-02-04T10:25:23+00:00

A lot of transphobia in this sub apparently which is strange. Well, maybe not really. Anyway I don't know a ton about trans issues, but nevertheless I don't understand the aversion I'm seeing here.

As a baseline, people should have the right to do anything they want to their bodies provided they are not hurting others. If a trans person MTF wants hormones, she isn't hurting anyone by taking them. What is the problem with her getting them? Let her do what she wants to her body.

I always find it baffling that conservatives in general tend to champion freedom to make choices, do what they want without regulation, etc. But as soon as someone makes a choice they don't agree with it becomes "mental illness" and needs to be stopped. Pure hypocrisy.

All this talk about mental illness is not appropriate. Unless you have the appropriate credentials it is not appropriate to speculate on someone's mental health from only knowing a single thing about them- in this case they are trans.

OpdatUweKutSchimmele · 2020-02-04T10:26:26+00:00

When looking at the stats, Trans people have a 60% suicide rate

I like that you don't source these stats, because if you did, that would reveal that these numbers are 60% lifetime attempt suicide rate, including from before transition, not lifetime success suicide rate after transition.

if it’s is categorized as a mental disorder/illness/issue, what ever you wanna call it. Shouldn’t we treat is as such?

It is, the recommended treatment for gender dysphoria at the moment is gender transition.

To my knowledge there are no mental health treatments that recommend surgery outside of trans people.

Yes there are, testosterone is prescribed to biological males to treat depression, it can also be described to biological females to treat something similar.

lycheenme · 2020-02-04T10:58:24+00:00

is reducing suicide rates not enough? sure, dysphoria is a problem after and during transition but it's massively alleviated by transitioning.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/opinion/pentagon-transgender.html?auth=login-google

quality of life, suicidal ideations, these are improved by transition.

Gravel_Roads · 2020-02-04T08:22:47+00:00

I'm not sure what this has to do with PPD, but I can say that you do not seem familiar with how dysphoria works, what medical professionals report in terms of how transition alleviates it, or even basic empathy as to what causes suicidal ideation.

Trans people should be left alone to seek whatever treatment they need to get through the day, just like anyone else. Stop pretending like you care about their wellbeing, you are not helping anyone.

Sure some look happier but the fact still stands that the suicide rate is high

The rate of suicidal ideation diminishes for most trans people post transition, and is pretty universally known to be caused by social ostracization more than anything. This is why it is considered the best treatment available - it actually alleviates the dysphoria.

dysphoria is a recurring issue that fails to go away... if it’s is categorized as a mental disorder/illness/issue, what ever you wanna call it. Shouldn’t we treat is as such?

Source? because I can say that my dysphoria all but vanished - it's gone down for every trans person I've talked to. There are a whole battery of doctors treating it. You just don't like what the treatment is.

If you're opposed to transition, and seem to have a lot of opinions about this, what exactly are you proposing as a solution instead? Why do you think you know more than doctors?

cupcakejar00 · 2020-02-04T06:06:04+00:00

Being straight forward about my bigotedness, I have nothing against trans people, but MTF who aren't "passing" elicit a negative response in me.

Regardless, I don't think surgery is the way to go nor is medication to switch genders. Therapy and medication to fix their brain should be the core focus. When I was diagnosed with depression and suicidal thoughts, I was given anti-depressants, not a gun.

But on the other hand, it doesn't really affect me in any way, so why not let them do it.

The high rate of trans suicide never bothered me for one second, and whether transitioning helps them or not, is really not a big concern for me.

Live and let live.

blackedoutfast · 2020-02-04T06:25:02+00:00

no they clearly have mental illness and should be treated for it. it's actually very disgusting and sad that society in general plays along with their delusions.

if a schizophrenic person hallucinates voices inside their head, do we pretend that the voices are real so they don't feel bad? of course not. pretending that a man has magically transformed into a woman is no different.

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thenycmusician · 2020-02-04T06:08:05+00:00

Hoping you get some thoughtful answers and not a bunch of hate for this post. Pretty brave to ask this question in this day and age. Important issues for all of us to talk about, and no one should be deemed non-compassionate or unfeeling for having a different perspective.

felis_magnetus · 2020-02-04T08:42:39+00:00

I draw a line when it comes to non-adults. Keep your surgical instruments away from the testicles of children and teens, where informed consent can't be reasonably expected. Frankly, I consider a lot of what's going on there outright criminal.

With that being said, we are in a situation where we know enough to be able to instigate some pretty drastic changes, but far from having reached lasting conclusions on what's actually going on there. It's a real can of worms with lots of factors playing into what can only be called one gigantic mess. Some of these factors can be remedied with further research and I'm all for that, but others seem to point more at society, economy and politics of science. Now, I will always support an adult's right to do whatever they want to their bodies, provided they're in a halfway rational state of mind.

Which brings us right to OP's question: Should we treat gender dysphoria as a mental disorder and therefore not with hormone replacement and surgery? I'd question the premise here, that there needs to be a standardized answer at all. Obviously there are several options available, so why not leave them to the affected individual to decide? Maybe this is a political question in disguise just the same though.

As is, I have a hard time fending off the impression, that this choice seems to depend more on what options are de facto available at what costs. The ethical thing to do here is to level the field. Equal access to all options. Which also requires equal support for research into all aspects. As with so many other things though, the reality of that is a whole range of outside factors distorting academic possibilities, as is to be expected when you allow market forces and interests, political expediency and moral prejudices to run amok. Add to that the ever-looming threat of malpractice suits and the normative pressure stemming from that and we pretty much have a perfect storm.

I have a lot of empathy for the affected, when they loose any hope to escape that labyrinth and regain control over their life in a meaningful manner. Frankly, it's really not hard to understand those suicide numbers. I'm very much in two minds though, when it comes to the politicization of the issue. Not at all convinced it really helps to push people already struggling for stability in the limelight, but on the other hand it might be their best bet to break out of isolation, which we now is a big risk factor for suicide. It's an imperfect situation. In the end it must be up to the individual to decide, including the right to chance their mind about it. Just don't push it on kids and teens.

One last thing: it's not correct, that surgical approaches to mental disorders are unheard of. It's just that by and large the practice has been discontinued for ethical reasons and rightfully so, but for example (partial) lobotomies were a thing and it didn't just happen to some poor souls who had fallen into the hands of researchers with no personal ethics whatsoever, that shit was well accepted and considered correct procedure once, applied throughout society. JFK's sister Rosemary was probably one of the more well known cases. So, there is precedent for surgery as a treatment for mental disorders. It's just not one that makes a good case for more of that.

Title	Are surgeries and hormones really want Trans People need?
Author	cupcakejar00
Upvotes	8
Comments	67
Date	February 4, 2020 5:58 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/eylh74/are_surgeries_and_hormones_really_want_trans/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-surgeries-and-hormones-really-want-trans.330606 https://theredarchive.com/post/330606

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