319,267 posts
319,267 posts
833 upvotes
by MotchGoffels on /r/TheRedPill
23 November 2015 03:54 AM UTC
| Title | Stick it out, be patient. |
|---|---|
| Author | MotchGoffels |
| Upvotes | 833 |
| Comments | 101 |
| Date | 23 November 2015 03:54 AM UTC (4 years ago) |
| Subreddit | TheRedPill |
| Link | https://theredarchive.com/post/38359 |
| Original Link | https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3twcyw/stick_it_out_be_patient/ |
© TheRedArchive 2020. All rights reserved.
TRP saves men, but it also saves women. Your daughter is going to be a better person because you didn't lose your shit, they had little to come after you with, and you'll be there for her. Congratulations.
So much this. They don't call it "daddy issues" for nothing.
A daughter raised by a strong, alpha guy enters the world without a giant hole in her psyche that she will then try to fill with truckloads of strange penis. She actually has a shot at being a well-adjusted, good woman.
Still AWALT, don't let your guard down for a "good" girl.
Who the fuck downvotes this?
There are few married chums on here who think they have a unicorn.
They're unicorns for a reason. We like to think about them, even if they aren't real.
The occasional post on here that's all "But I've been with my wife for 1 year and it's perfect! See guys, not AWALT! Marriage isn't a total trap! Totally fine!" Is just sickening to see. Usually upvoted a bunch, too.
If a guy says 1 year, you will say too soon. If a guy says 5 years, you will still say too soon. If a guy says 10 years, you will say she is cheating and he don't know it and EVENTUALLY he is gonna get divorce raped. If a guy says 20+ years, you will say what a loser he is for sticking with one chick that long.
At the end of the day this is an unverifiable claim which stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what AWALT actually means.
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Only if they stay in the child's life. Just because you display alpha behaviour does not make you a good parent.
Alpha does not always mean good and beta does not always mean bad. Good fathers are more likely to share in both sets of behaviours when the setting is appropriate. LTR game and being a father doesn't line up with a Chad Thundercock mentality.
Absolutely, my daughter will grow to view the world in a much different light now that I've secured my time with her. Had I lost her, she'd end up exactly like her mother, a beautiful, manipulative, power hungry man-eater. My ex grew without a real parental structure and I basically took her in and raised her over the last six years, or at least provided stable ground for her to grow on.
This is why I refuse to marry a woman who was raised in a broken family where there is no alpha male parental figure. My cousin did this and I'm just counting down the days til he gets divorced rape. I see every last sign of betadome and divorce rape incoming with him-- he earns a lot, his stepmother is a divorcee and his wife hates her father, he's out of shape, she lacks domesticity, etc.
It's painful to see it since I love him like a brother, but damn, if he avoids divorce rape he'll be the exception to the rule.
Sometimes I have a passing thought of finding some sort of fathers-of-daughters website where I can tell fathers how their daughters are behaving and how they should prevent it and openly talk about serious issues with their daughters. Unfortunately, I wouldn't know how to teach that.
But luckily OP is doing something about it probably already by practicing TRP and perhaps it might be absorbed by his daughter.
His daughter is doomed already. In this society, she is just being raised to be someones plate and take as many penises as she can.
As a dude with full custody and a crazy, now homeless ex-wife who also did very similar things as yours, I can tell you it gets better.
There will be lonely times and shit, but when you put your blood first it's all that matters - taking care of your own.
Good luck brother!
Just in case a fuck up my life and marry a psycho, how did you get full custody ?
Lawyer up, and lawyer up.
Also, keep track of everything she sends you, try to record any threats or acts of violence, etc. This includes text messages, etc.
EVERYTHING is admissible in family court. Print outs of text messages, no problem. Screenshots of emails, that works.
Finally, the last part is the hardest. You truly, truly have to WANT to have full custody of your kids. It's a big fucking deal, man. I don't have weekends free because their mom can't keep her shit together or a job or an apartment or boyfriend. The kids are with me all the time. Maybe they will see her for a couple of hours every other week, and that's with supervised visits that I have to pay for.
Be sure to know what you are signing up for.
Better yet, just try to avoid the whole thing if possible, marriage is such an antiquated institution with the worst possible contract. If you must do it be sure to get a pre-nup and settle issues like who gets the dog, the kids, the house etc before hand.
Good luck man, go crush that puss.
Thank you for the response.
It is all about the kids for me, not the women. Any woman can bare my off springs, I just need her womb. It is too expensive to get a surrogate.
I hope your kids grow up to make you proud.
Thank you, it's good to hear other successes. There are a few red pillers who'd gone through this who helped me out early on. The advice I'd received was priceless and helped me overcome some really dark times.
Best of luck to you too, you sound like a good father.
When you are ready for full custody and both your mind and body are in harmony about it (and your schedule, shit) than it will come my friend.
Your brain will make you do whatever it takes, pay however much it costs to get full custody. You will find that path yourself because it will be something you want.
The desire to raise your own child in your own way without some other dude in the picture will be strong. It's inevitable, if you are truly a man - which it seems like you are.
Go crush that puss, and make sure to get that consent form!
You are free!
Ultimately, you are the one who endured. The information you knew, helped you; but you are the one who endured all of the Hell that was happening every long second. A lot of people have head knowledge, but it takes true heart and soul to last. Take a big sigh of relief and pat yourself on the back. Don't forget to share your first hand experience with others. Tragic and horrible events are vital information for others without the experience. You could save someone else's life in a similar matter.
Edit: Typo
Thank you, it is an indescribable feeling of dread having someone try to take your kid away from you.
Man, I can't even imagine. I don't have a son of my own, but my cousin is like my brother and interacting with his two year old son shines a light on my day - and I know that doesn't even begin to compare to the love my cousin feels for the little tyke. His girl is a nice woman, bit of a temper, but she's family. I can't even imagine how vile and horrible a person has to be to deny someone their child.
Women can rationalize any behavior to justify getting what they want, that's why they're irrational. She will tell herself your child is better off without you. Even the good ones AWALT.
They don't have morals reinforced by empirical data and logic like men. They can rewire their emotions with the flick of a switch and not give a fuck about you. It's an evolutionary survival tactic.
Serious question, how? I know you said "I held frame..." But that just seems too generic of an explanation
It's really the best way to describe the situation. I had a moment of weakness where we'd taken our daughter to her three month check up together. At this point she'd realized her mistake and wanted me back. I wasn't ready to let her back in though, and this infuriated her. After the appointment we drove back to my apartment and she asked me again to take her back, I declined, and she started yelling at me, saying I'd never see my daughter again. She unbuckled my daughter and took her to her car. This was the only instance where I truly lost frame and began shouting for her to give my daughter back to me, as it was my time to have her, and that she'd get her two days later. She refused, and threatened to call the police, and then a bystander chimed in saying that she is a social worker and will call the police for her. At this point it set in, and I completely unraveled knowing that if she really did get the police involved I would lose everything. I was almost in tears trying to explain to the lady that it was my time to have my daughter, that my wife was basically kidnapping her from me, but she didn't care, there was no way she would side with me. I then retreated to my apartment and lost it, completely unravelled and cried knowing that at that point I was powerless.
This is where I called my lawyer, someone who I'd sought out a couple weeks prior as more of a "just in case" last resort. I met with him the next day and filed for divorce. He explained to me that I need to stay calm in every interaction I have with her, and that I should never allow her any time with me in private, as it makes me vulnerable. I was able to negotiate a temporary custody agreement with the friend of the court that would give me protection over my time with my daughter during the waiting period.
There is a six month waiting period for divorce with children involved, and it was the most stressful six months of my entire life. On a nightly basis I would get texts and phone calls from my ex that began with her trying to toy with my emotions, explaining how she is a different person now, how she made a huge mistake and that she's full of regret. I would never give in though, as I'd seen into the pit that is her heart and wouldn't submit myself to her ever again. After rejecting her she would go off on me, screaming, shouting, and threatening that she will take my daughter and all of my belongings in the divorce. This happened at least 4-5 days out of every week for the past six months.
I held frame though, I never raised my voice to her ever again, I stayed calm in every interaction with her and never gave in. I resumed lifting, quit smoking, started eating right again, and diverted all of my energy and attention to my daughter and my studies. I kept a detailed log of every day I had her, and of every time my ex would slip up on her parenting. I never allowed her to enter any private setting with me. I did everything I could to protect my time with my little girl and found her to be the perfect person for me to love.
So the 20th finally came around, my D-day. I entered the courtroom with my lawyer and we waited. My ex-wife never showed up. I was granted a default judgement of divorce, the temporary order became permanent. That was the best day I'd had in an incredibly long time.
Why didnt you win full custody if she didnt show up to court? Or am I too trusting of family court...
I only wanted joint custody. I don't want for her mother to not be in the picture.
Your ex-wife is going to spend every waking minute of your daughter's life trying to turn her against you. And who knows who your ex-wife will end up dating and what impact that will have on your daughter. I would try to get as much custody (even full) if possible.
You have good points. I don't know who she'll end up with in the long run. She's shown to me that she can be a good mother so far though, and that she loves our daughter. I don't have justification to try and take my daughter's mother away from her. I'd like to think that having both parents play equal parts in her life will be the best option.
From what you've said, it sounds like it's totally within the realm of possibility for her to be a shitty mother to hurt you. I don't need to give examples but I'm sure you can use your imagination. I know I'm just a guy on the internet, but one of my parents works in the custody dispute field and I have heard waaaaay too many horror stories not to tell you to get full custody. Just remember, AWALT.
Perfectly said. +1 on trying to get full custody. Don't let some sort of traumatic event be the catalyst for you taking custody. DO it before.
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Normally I don't say this on TRP, but what studies back you up? There's a difference between making your kid play football and getting sexually abused by her shitty mom's shitty boyfriend.
I did this as well in the beginning, thinking kids need their moms. I regret it immensely for reasons I can't get into here. I was selfish and wanted joint custody as well so I could live my life and they live with her full time.
Granted I wouldn't have been able to come to California and start a new life and then eventually bring them over here with me and get full custody (granted, mind you, by one of the most notorious mother-preferring judges in the valley) had I gotten full custody in the beginning, it's still something I think about.
If she did these things to you, shacking up with anotehr dude immediatley leaving her family etc keep in mind your child is an extension of you that kind of sick hatred she has for you could overspill onto the child. Hopefully it won't, and you will get back on your feet and want full custody.
He might not have petitioned for full custody. Trust and lack of trust are somewhat irrelevant in court (better off not to trust the court by default, but that doesn't mean to act like some paranoid, aggressive asshole, because ultimately the court is more powerful than you), it's more important to know how the system works in every detail.
Good for you and your daughter guy.
However, you're kidding yourself if you think your "frame", documenting visits, or avoiding private interactions produced this result. She no-showed court... that's it.
You don't think him melting down in public, responding to her phonecalls in texts in an angry manner, meeting her in compromising situations wouldn't have lead to her showing up to court and throwing all of those moments of weakness in his face?
I mean, all you have to do is put a ball in a hoop to win a game of basketball, that doesn't mean I'm going to beat the Chicago Bulls. Just because the ending was simple does not mean that the lead up wasn't perilous, difficult, and necessary.
Agree with everything you wrote.
Just saying, to use your example, that I could beat the Bulls single handed... if they didn't show up. If they did show up no amount of prep on my part would yield a positive outcome.
To apply the metaphor more exactly,
The entire basketball game is his relationship with his wife, the second the ball goes in the hoop is the trial. The getting to the hope is the ordeal.
She showed up. She showed up for 6 months calling him daily and being a raging bitch. She played a hard game and he out manoeuvred her.
Fair enough, but all to often it's a foregone conclusion.
We were very well prepared for her to show.
And I commend you for it... just saying the optimal outcome you saw here was due to her no showing at your custody hearing... judges hate that shit.
I have been in your shoes, twice no less, and I feel your pain brother. I did everything you mentioned myself plus a shit-ton more frankly, but the over the hill, gynocentric man-hating judge couldn't have cared less and fucked me, (and by extension my daughter) to the fullest extent at her disposal.
By all means maintain your frame and keep your ducks in a row, but depending on where you live this is a systemic problem, not one of personal choices necessarily. Sure if you are some low-life you don't stand much of a chance anyway, but you can do everything right and still get an unacceptable outcome for you... and your children.
Praise be to Cthulhu she fucked up, and good luck going forward.
That's shitty to hear.. I guess I don't know what would have happened. I had a good lawyer, he's the one who convinced her to no-show ultimately. It's insane that the justice system would ever decide to exclude a willing and able parent.
I too had a "good" lawyer. I hired a heavy hitter (female) to represent me. Her fucking retainer was $20,000...
No Dice...
Imagine standing in a room with 5 women (all of whom show you open contempt) deciding what your relationship with your own daughter will be. I wasn't even allowed to speak... and before you ask my lawyer did try... "Over ruled" from the bench.
Once the court "discovered" my income it was over really.
The system is hopelessly corrupt.
And if she had showed up, he would need all those things to support his case. There's no reason not to have documented visits, recorded phone calls, and avoidance of private interactions during a divorce.
...of course.
But she didn't, which resulted in a great custody arrangement.
Which was my point.
Valid point, and my point was that the implication that his efforts were not worthwhile should be avoided. I don't think he ever kidded himself that those efforts are what produced the outcome, because obviously the case never got that far. But anyone else reading this should not think that the only way to win is if she doesn't show up and that it's unimportant to document stuff and be careful.
Due diligence matters certainly. But I also think that in many(most) cases, her no-show may well be the only way to win... it certainly has been in my own (admittedly) anecdotal experience.
I think he means he wasn't throwing tantrums, didn't act distraught, gave her no ground to be on the offensive...
Exactly this, I stayed calm, remained patient.
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You need to hold your frame a bit better bro.
It has been a long time since I have seen that copy paste used in a funny way... I'll keep waiting ig
You know why they say divorce is so expensive?
Because it is WORTH IT.
Congrats, my good man.
Thank you! It really is expensive, but absolutely worth it. Between the split of assets and legal fees, it cost around $5,000, which is actually a bargain compared to others.
Story us. Tell us everything.
I agree. There's a lot of wisdom that can be shared by what happened and how you handled yourself
I elaborated in another comment, it's a long story.
Congrats on the divorce. Things will get better.
Can you elaborate on what you done so that others, (myself included) may learn? You never know when the crazy switch is going to get flipped on in your SO/wife until it's too late.
I am happy that you knew how to handle the situation because of TRP. You highlight a very real aspect of our community--we are brothers helping each other out.
Now that you're back to the single life, have fun and enjoy the decline!
She could have still ruined your life if she proceeded with the false accusations and police calls. You should have recorded everything, both audio and video.
Bravo, I have a 7 year old daughter. Not seeing her again would be horrendous. Well done.
Slightly off-topic, but I've been meaning to ask book recomendations for parenting psychology and leadership. Red-pill oriented of course.
I can't really give any suggestions as I've never read anything like that. I mostly stick to scifi, with Old Man's War and the Ghost Brigades being a couple of my favorites.
Dude you won... this is success. Thanks for sharing your story.
Happy to hear it. Very rare that it works out like this somewhat in the man's favor.
I got stuck with no custody, visitation rights, and $150.00 a week child support. I can barely afford to live. Wish I had lawyered up when we first split up after she cheated on me, but I didn't have the money to do so. Now I'm paying dearly for it.
Is there anything I could do to get Joint Custody / no child support payments I wonder if it's too late...
I don't know your story, but you had to of done something very wrong to get in that position.. It'll come down to you convincing her that you are an integral/important part of your kids life. When she's getting that much money though I doubt she'll care much.
I think it's a bit easier to avoid your scenario by being proactive immediately after it all goes down. It's better to be the one who files for divorce. Gotta get the temporary agreement and then find a way to get her to stick to it.
Congratulations.
I'm in midst of a divorce too. Will take this lesson to heart.
Congratulations on your success. This story just further solidifies the value of this forum.
There is a story here and I want it.
I wrote out a bit of it under another posters comment.
Glad to see it worked out for you. You are an inspiration to us all. This could have gone so wrong so fast.
These are the posts in this sub that makes me really happy to be apart of you guys.
Trial and triumphs. Life is all about peaks and valleys... Good with the bad. Good luck OP, glad you kept your cool.
Never get married. There are no exceptions to this rule.
If you give a woman legal power over you do not be surprised when she uses that power to beat you over the head. OP's story is one of incredible luck. Know that even with great frame control and doing everything right you are likely to get fucked over.
Marriage: Just say No
After all of this I'm fairly certain I'll never marry again. If the laws change then maybe, but I really only see it getting worse in my lifetime.
Your story sounds familiar, mate. I went through that last year but I finally paid a lot of money, got divorced and swallowed the pill. I now have full custody of my two daughters. First thing I did — after opening a bottle of champagne that is — was to get rid of all the Disney shit my ex-wife was feeding my girls with. She has now become little more than a toy supplier to them. There are a few threads here that deal with what RP fathers can do to try and bring up their daughters but if any of you know of other ressources, please share. Anyway, well done OP. Your story made me smile as it reminded me of tough times I was able to overcome. It's a success and without a doubt you should be proud.
edit : typo
Congrats on your divorce! Well done.
After the night I had last night, this post was exactly what I needed to log in and see this morning.
Congrats, OP and much obliged.
Thanks! I'm glad I could help.
Congratulations, brother.
You managed to get through this is better shape than 95% of men.
We're glad that you managed to swallow the bitter pill and benefit from what it brings to the table.
Congratulations! From this point it gets only better.
But its not over yet, your wife still might try to get full custody, keep up the rules you were following before divorce.
Be prepared for her (or especially her mother if she's in the picture) to attempt to brainwash the child against you. The way you will combat this is the way you've been doing. Don't break frame or stoop to that level.
I'm anticipating this also. I'm not really sure on how exactly to combat it other than continue being civil and dismissive of her negativity. Only time will tell.
Consider writing a comprehensive guide (or linking one, I couldn't find anything in sidebar, but I've read a ton of bits and pieces) about how to handle these situations with psychos, particularity when cops tend to assume you are wrong and she is the victim just because you have a dick.
If I had the time I would. I'm in the home-stretch for my degree and it's taking most of my spare time.
Just curious, but how did you deal with the situation? I am newer to the trp, and would have no idea what to do if my SO went psychotic on me, threatened me with fake calls to the police, threatened to take my daughter from me on a daily basis, etc.
You force yourself to stay calm and divert your attention elsewhere. There are better things to be done than worrying about something you have very little control over. Do everything correctly and don't give her any ammunition for a legal battle. Do not subject yourself to any setting which could be manipulated into your own demise. Women can lie about anything, call the police, and have you taken away in shackles. The law is built around taking you down, so do everything in your power to completely avoid it.
Way to go. Now go have fun spinning plates and leading your daughter as a responsible father figure.
You could give a few specific things that you did to protect yourself, and even some things that she did and how you countered. It's good that you're benefiting from TRP, but giving back feels a whole lot better.
Some poor sale is probably going through that right now, give him some tips.
Yes! Trying to take your children away for no reason should be considered an act of aggresssion. The court gives no fucks, but if you swear or get upset they will hold that against you if you are a man.
I also wanted to say for the non believers that I am a man with 50% custody, placement, and no direct child support. My divorce agreement even says each parent buys their own clothes for the children. I give the ex half 95% of the time because I like providing for my children. When the ex does something dumb like buying a 6yr old $50 sneakers I opt out :D
Why do people say Custody when they mean Placement. Do you mean you have joint placement? Custody is what allows you both to make decisions for your daughter like what school or doctor she goes to or wether she can go into the military. Placement is which parent the child is in the care of and for how many nights. Also I seriously doubt you don't have to pay child support. In all 50 states once a divorce case is presented to the court the first thing they ask is "are there children" because the state makes a ridiculous amount of money off of child support. You and your wife don't get to choose if you want or don't want to pay child support. The state will choose for you and the majority of the time the man loses because typically the man is the bread winner and therefore the only one with an income to garnish. Congrats on having your daughter but I seriously doubt what you're claiming.
The divorce is final, neither party pays child support because of similar incomes and split time with my daughter. Joint physical custody means we have her half time and work together on decisions with school and such.
You're mixing up your words and again the state will not allow you or your ex to not pay child support. If you have kids and get a divorce, someone pays support. End of story. I just simply don't believe you.
You are just wrong? It's in my final agreement, no party shal pay child support.
So I spent some time researching last night and I was wrong. What I was told and the state I live in are different than a lot of other states. I apologize for disagreeing and congrats on winning a typically rough battle!
Ahh yeah a lot of differences state to state