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Free Speech Tools and Dev

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March 30, 2018
135 upvotes

Hi all, as per my post a few days ago I've been discussing free speech platforms with a select number of people who reached out to me regarding a potential project that might "cure" the issues surrounding free speech on major platforms.

The idea that I have is simple. Rather than invent a dozen new technologies or invest in blockchain tech that sounds cool in theory (but nobody has been able to actually explain to me in a way that makes any fucking sense), I thought the best approach would be a hybrid/hydra approach.

This is what I think the biggest barriers are to a free speech platform:

  • Ownership and hosting of the platform should be distributed, which means supporters of a project must be numerous for success.

  • Difficulty in implementation. Blockchain sounds great but nobody knows how to use it, and very few are going to become experts in the field to launch their own part of the platform. Simplicity is key.

  • Difficulty in accessibility. If your project is dark-web or requires a new browser or app to access it, it's already off to a bad start. In order to combat censorship, we must not accept alternatives to the accepted world-wide-web. (If a tree falls in the forest and nobody's around to hear it). Assume that any requirement for a 3rd party app is doomed from the start (see gab's experience with google play and apple store).

  • Liability. Outside of being appetizing to advertisers, which I think is an overblown argument that doesn't hold as much merit as many would think, the big reason for the recent purge was the administration here either pushing a political agenda or attempting to mitigate future liability. A distributed nature of a website would minimize anybody's liability to the content they choose to host.

  • Moderation vs Censorship. Moderation must still be possible for individual communities to stay on topic, however the overarching concept should allow subverting censorship by letting anybody become a moderator of their own community if they choose.

  • Cost. A centralized platform is difficult to implement and expensive to run. A distributed platform is cheap. Owners of sub-communities will be allowed to sell their own advertising to cover costs or use something like bitcoin to collect donations.

My Idea

A light-weight forum script no heavier than wordpress, and just as easy to install, that uses an open-id format that lets users seamlessly jump from property to property. Instead of subreddits we have sub-sites. Anybody with a hobby can launch their own. The script should have as little overhead as possible, letting smaller sites host on anything as simple as a cheap shared-hosting account on godaddy or the bigger subs to setup shop on a mildly priced VPS/Dedicated + domain.

A master site (or anybody who wants to implement it) uses the open standard to aggregate content that you subscribe to in one place, similar to reddit's front page. But none of that content is centrally hosted making the aggregation nothing but a viewer with no control or oversight on the content (aside from deciding who to subscribe to and who not to). If any major aggregation threatens censorship, a dozen new ones can pop up, or you can host your own private one. Or, you can visit each property individually as you do the normal internet.

If you don't like how one forum is being moderated, you can create your own. So while individual properties will still obviously offer a level of moderation, a larger free-speech approach is enabled by letting any community start with their own set of rules and no governing body can say no.

The legal liability for legal content is squarely on the shoulders of the mods who create their own properties.

We've investigated a few open source or existing ideas (such as hubzilla) so we're not sold on re-inventing the wheel. But if you have an interest in either the creative side of this project or the development side of this, please leave a note in the comments and I'll get you instructions to join the group discussing this.

Thanks.


Post Information
Title Free Speech Tools and Dev
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 135
Comments 46
Date 30 March 2018 01:38 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/49443
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/88adxw/free_speech_tools_and_dev/
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Comments

[–]FirstNamesMusic30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yo, I am a developer.

I would like to be in these discussions.

I don't have a lot of time, but since this sub helps so many I will make some.

[–]0FO616 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am interested in this and can help out on the Dev side, ops stuff.

[–]Rian_Stone5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I remember a redditor, years back, made the entire reddit script into one line of code. Granted, he just liberally used EOL markers to make it ugly, but I remember the original source was very lightweight. I don't know if it's still on github.

Makes you think, how little is required to make this thing.

[–]The_Noble_Lie6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

For anyone reading this, it doesn't pass any form of logic other than

1) thinking client side code is all there is. For some websites, there is no client code other than html/css; all the logic is done server side and printed into a dynamically generated html page which is served to the end user.

2) the dude ran hundreds or thousands of lines of javascript into a minifier that prints out a one line ten thousand+ columned line.

No I dont think there is much anything special happening client side on the reddit desktop page but still, felt worth clarifying.

[–]NagateTanikaze5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sounds like mastodon (federated twitter); https://mastodon.social/about

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Very similar, but with threaded discussion boards and moderator teams.

[–]racunix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

what about pleroma? https://pleroma.social/

Federates with mastodon, but lightweight.

[–]racunix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]Enjoythings 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

This can be a simple html css JavaScript forum, let's fire up a github for the project and everyone collaborate ???

[–]ThrowFader0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Add me. You know my email address.

[–]redpill774 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want in.

[–]TRPmc1173 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm a product manager who has managed the development of a wide range of applications across industries. Please reach out - would love to contribute.

[–]1Senor_Schwifty2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This makes sense and would be a huge asset for everyone.

I can make some time to make the discussions and help out.

Let me know.

[–]10xdada2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

As someone who knows a lot about designing things, and things like what is described above in particular, I would contribute some time to the project.

So, is the problem just, "reddit without censorship," or something more?

[–]int_float_char1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey I´m a developer on client and web side of things. If you want your website to have current technologies(check out offline first websites) and maybe an desktop app for easier management for the users/hosters(just like discord has it) send me a pm, maybe we can figure something out.

[–]NormalAndy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Trouble is people have to make the effort to maintain it all and you have to achieve a critical mass to make any distributed system float. That usually means cost and effort by one person who will be selfless enough to give it away. And that ain’t a red pill strong suit.

So you gotta get yourself some blue pill types who wanna learn and learn to love your enemy. No poison chalice- it’s a hard one.

[–]fortuitousmonk1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Get in touch with me.

So blockchain isn't necessary, all you're talking about is P2P-distributed networks with ubiquitous encryption via public key cryptography. My startup hosts infrastructure you need to do what you're talking about.

Seriously, reach out to me, I think I can help you. This would make an interesting pilot. Hint: in industry jargon, pilots are usually free and can offer a launchpad to promote a service (so it's possible to find a barter situation that still yields mutual benefit).

[–]Hairy007Beast1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Blockchain Simplified: Explained in nontechnical analogies

Before Blockchain: John want to give money to Sara, but Sara is on the other side of the room(or world). So, he hands the money to Dave(a banker who he trust) to give it to Sara. Dave gives John a receipt saying your money will go to Sara and hands Sara the money.

After Blockchain:John and Sara wants to "eliminate the middle man"(Joe) and create a "trustless system." How do they do this? By not actually privately exchanging "money," but publicly "value." WTF that mean? Let's say John has 3401 units of value(Bitcoin, RedPillCoin, Any units you want) and Sara has 5. John publicly says in front of the entire room that he is giving Sara 5 units of value. Everyone else in the room hears this and now accept that John new value is 3396 and Sara new value is 11. There is no need for a middle man b/c John publicly says he is giving Sara value and everyone makes a note of it and mentally note that Sara has more value that she can give in the same public way.

Explained Technically: A block is a container storing information. A Blockchain is a series of blocks connected. These blocks are public and the proof of work algorithm is used to verify it's validity. Basically a hard to solve, but easy to verify statement must be solved. The computers "mining" are trying to solve these hard encryptions and after the first one get it, the rest verify and copy its answer and therefore downloading or cloning it's part of the chain. Implications are a middle man is no longer needed and a trustless system can be created. This give birth to smart contract and many other awesome benefits that I don't have time to write about!

[–]rad_dynamic1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Once I've done my computer science masters degree I'm going to look into this. Hope you're still around in 3-4 years.

Anyway I can contact you then?

[–]The_Noble_Lie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dont wait. Do both if they both interest you.

[–]dwardu0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This problem can most likely be solved using serverless (lambda functions) so we would ultimately have loads of small miniscule functions. Terraform can be used to spin up the infrastructure without needing to know deep knowledge of the console, static content on a storage bucket. Most likely for the decentralised bit (so no one censors eachother), each 'sub-site' could be able to host and maintain a list of these sub sites, so if someone tries to censor the site, other sites would have it. The problem might arise if there's a rogue site that will try post malicious stuff. So there might always be that small layer of censorship.

[–]postreformedpua0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I recommend trying to use amazon's free tier and rotating through different accounts. Serverless and s3 are options to look at. I'm a JS dev if you need a hand with that.

[–]artificialfather0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Front-end developer and hobbyist graphic designer here, where do I sign up?

[–]ImHerWonderland0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Computer Science Major, still currently a student. I would interested in observing and learning from the dev process, and perhaps contributing if it is in my area of expertise.

[–]oscarpaca0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Front end dev, let me know via pm

[–]mjslighthouse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Full stack developer. I’m interested!

[–]taw1270 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Data architect / security enthusiast here.

Happy to bounce ideas around wherever this is being discussed.

Also, I have some connections in the blockchain world. Most of them are working on monetizing Ethereum trades, but it's a small enough community that there aren't that many degrees of separation between me and the folks who might be able to contribute here.

Let me know!

[–]TRPnab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you do decide to use block chain I have a bit of experience with ethereum as a development platform.

[–]SKNK_Monk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have no technical skills but would love to be able to stay updated on this because I have been thinking the same thing. I'll stay out of the way, I promise.

[–]BornShook0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had a similar idea a few weeks back but abandoned it. Very Interested. I know a lot of tech savy people. Everything from web developers, mining experts, and network technicians. Will do some research and maybe get back to you. Commenting for later.

[–]trickedout4eva0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I would be interested in helping and learning if i can be of use. Only new to learning python, familiar with pm although not from the programming point of view. I am however eager to help and learn.

[–]FreePotatoFries0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For bigger subs the same "aggregate"/feed kind of strategy could be used for the subs as well. A group of users could be given a particular property which would be hosted independently and the subreddit view would itself also be just a virtual feed.

To keep the data on the servers safer the servers could also store the copies of properties hosted on some of thr other servers to increase durability and allow for backups of the data.

[–]Africa4days0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Would be very interested in the development of this project, reach out to me whenever you get the time.

[–]FwoGiZ0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think of you truely want tgat, then you really gotta understand blockchain as it is the closest to full on unmoderated you'll get.

[–]CommonMisspellingBot-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey, FwoGiZ, just a quick heads-up:
truely is actually spelled truly. You can remember it by no e.
Have a nice day!

The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A light-weight forum script no heavier than wordpress, and just as easy to install [...]. Instead of subreddits we have sub-sites. Anybody with a hobby can launch their own. The script should have as little overhead as possible, letting smaller sites host on anything as simple as a cheap shared-hosting account on godaddy [...].

Webserver and HTTP with some small Blogging / Forum System (there are tons of options).

that uses an open-id format that lets users seamlessly jump from property to property

E-Mail Address

A master site (or anybody who wants to implement it) uses the open standard to aggregate content that you subscribe to in one place, similar to reddit's front page.

Browsers and RSS readers.

And so on…

Its basically how the Internet is designed to work.

[–]Crsd47 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I'm a self-employed software engineer in my late thirties - whatever that may mean. I roll my eyes on this post and move on. I won't go down this rabbit hole. Sure, you will be able to recruit some whiz kids, but...

Well, I respect you, and I owe you some truth. Sorry. I'm willing to elaborate and point out the flaws, so feel free to invite me to that group discussion.

[–]ddado2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

The idea is useful. But the implementation details are woeful. It is clear the OP has no idea what they are talking about. As soon as you bring godaddy and other hosting providers into the mix, you stabbed the idea in its heart.

My advice to the OP is to learn. Read about blockchain. Read about torrents. Find out why people before him spent the time to do what they did. This wheel has been invented. You need to build a cart on top of it.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is clear the OP has no idea what they are talking about. As soon as you bring godaddy and other hosting providers into the mix, you stabbed the idea in its heart.

I'm sorry you didn't follow my very simple outline.

My advice to the OP is to learn. Read about blockchain. Read about torrents. Find out why people before him spent the time to do what they did. This wheel has been invented. You need to build a cart on top of it.

Ah yes, that's why reddit is built on the ubiquitous blockchain technology and we're having this conversation on the vastly superior anti-censorship successor to reddit already that exists.

[–]JohnnyElBravo-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Before going on to fix Reddit's Freedom of speech issues, solve the subreddit's freedom of speech issues.

https://i.imgur.com/TJMnoIp.jpg

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Due to reddit policy, we have disabled crosslinks to other subreddits. That's on them not us. But now you're banned because this annoyed me.

[–]ImHerWonderland2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Automod said it was removed for linking off site or within Reddit. Your post literally has the hyperlink for Pyongyang highlighted. What are you confused about???

[–]ninoamatore-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd be interested to participate and help

[–]ace1970-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would like to assist, can share my experience over PM. Thx

[–]laviksa-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also a software dev here..

The biggest issue to tackle is IMO the database you would be using. Orbit-db is a good example of a true p2p db: https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db/blob/master/README.md

Please read the background info: https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db/blob/master/GUIDE.md#background

It should be possible to program a site around it, but this won't be similar to writing a 'normal' webapplication, it's working with a new paradigm.

And it suffers from the same issue any p2p solution has: it is only eventually consistent!, not nearly instantly consistent as in a normal db. A fast chat like reddit conversion will be hard to achieve for a great number of hosts.



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