I've seen so, so much discourse over the last few days about how what online misogynists really need is kindness and understanding to help them because "they need it the most."
I have no doubt that these guys are genuinely suffering (from mental illness, from social awkwardness, from loneliness, what have you), but it is not my responsibility to sacrifice my time/energy/mental well-being to help them. Especially when any help you offer is only met with condescension, abuse, and rape threats.
And when I voice this opinion, I'm told I'm the bigot who has hate in my heart.
Edit 1: Got cross-posted to Men's Rights. I guess that explains all the sudden hostile messages I've been getting. It's always a risk when you post to this sub.
Edit 2: Oh my god, they're still coming. Maybe everyone who's complaining that I'm not nice enough should just be kind and understanding if you want to heal the hate in my heart so badly.
Edit 3: You ever see your chat box light up and cringe because you just know what it's going to be?
[–]irrelevantmoniker 69 points70 points71 points (47 children) | Copy Link
Now. This being a feminist saying this I have to ask for careful consideration to 'what does this person mean by 'misogynist' and 'kindness and understanding'
because lets not forget misogyny can be defined as 'anything less than complete support for radical feminism'
and kindness and understanding can mean all sorts.
So here's what I think happened?
MRA: So I'm an MRA and I think men have issues.
rabid: an mra? you're a misogynist!
MRA: No men have issues that are not being addressed and here are some of the ones i care deeply about *insert explanation here*
rabid: you expect me to understand and care about that? fuck you!
MRA: now that's just a bit mean.
rabid: *screaming like a cat yowling into a microphone crossed with a 56K modem then goes to write a post on 2X*
[+]LiberryBanaSmoothie -64 points-63 points-62 points (46 children) | Copy Link
Jfc y'all really hate women on this sub good lord
[–]throwawaybear61 33 points34 points35 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Females on the man-hating subs hate us. They are open in their disdain and hate. They propose to kill all men etc. All problems and evil come from men. We are all bad all the time. Blah blah blah. Whining and bitching from females who just can’t accept they live in a world men made.
I personally do not hate women. I hate misandrists who hate me due to my being a man. We’re growing tired of your nonsense and you are all threatened that mra thought and ideas are getting more and more traction.
Feminism is a poisonous, hate filled set of lies that seeks to destroy half the human race. Tough to have any respect for such total bullshit. Blocked troll.
[–]as_above_so_below 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I know genuine feminists who actually fight for women’s rights worldwide but yea these online do nothing but complain ones are the worst.
[–]throwawaybear61 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Sorry but anything predicated solely on advancing one sex is sexism by definition. Feminism is sexism. They are what they claim to fight against, at all levels.
“They have met the enemy and it is themselves!” Genuine feminists are genuine sexists. Worldwide feminists are worldwide sexists.
[–]as_above_so_below 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I mean in the fact they organise, raise money and participate in the liberation of females in countries where there is no equality. They do not believe in western feminism.
[–]reddut_gang 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
they will also turn a blind eye to the inequality that men face, and then insist that movements for those are not needed. you cannot be for equality of two if you only focus on one.
[–]jam-inii 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
so what? cant we say the same about the women on other subs? tho im not saying we should hate females, its just weird how you say that and theres suddenly no females talking shit and hating on males
[–]BlueberryGuyCz 14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Why would we shit talk? The difference between MRAs and feminists is that we are able to understand that everyone has problems and not just pretend the other gender has no problems simply by existing
Lets be better and not shit talk like braindead "opressed" people
[–]deathbrian098 9 points10 points11 points (11 children) | Copy Link
Mention any statement on this sub which was aimed at hating on women. Go to the feminist subs they continuously hate on men . Here we discuss real issues
[+]LiberryBanaSmoothie -9 points-8 points-7 points (10 children) | Copy Link
All I've seen so far is just hating on "females" lol
[–]j0k3ricu 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You are trying hard. We hate misandry. Still men's rights subs doesn't ban them. But you will get permanently banned for posting about men deserve basic rights. There you go, Now you know who is hate group.
[–]deathbrian098 4 points5 points6 points (7 children) | Copy Link
Up voting your own comment we were discussing the issues on how radical feminists have a problem we didn't talk about the female gender as a whole. Your an example of a libtard who bases your arguments on feelings not facts.
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie -4 points-3 points-2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Lmaoooooo I'm not a liberal good god that would be embarrassing
[–]Yeeticus1505 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
You may not be a ‘liberal’ but you sure are brain dead. Coming on here saying how we hate all women. Take a look at FDS, that’s a sub full of pure hatred and misandry. Here we discuss real issues rather than just complain and shit on women just for existing.
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
FDS is an unpleasant sub for sure but so is this one. I haven't seen anyone trying to civilly discuss real issues, just people trying to tear down feminism and shit on "females"
[–]CreagYT 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Are you really that fucking stupid? There's no way you're that braindead? Or then you just haven't read any posts at all, we here do NOT hate women, WE ADDRESS REAL ISSUES, dumbass
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Lmaoooo "We're not hateful you stupid f*cking idiot how stupid are you you're so stupid we're obviously not hateful you braindead idiot dumbass" I'm dead thank you so much for that
[–]j0k3ricu 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Your reply explains how resentful you are🤔
[–]khaste 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
"critiquing female gender bad!!!!, women good" :)))
[–]Criket 1 point2 points3 points (22 children) | Copy Link
I love women but highly hate desertive people... so by default it includes all feminists.
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie 0 points1 point2 points (21 children) | Copy Link
?
[–]Criket 1 point2 points3 points (20 children) | Copy Link
Similar synonymes... haughty, lofty, supercilious, snooty, lordly ,arrogant, pushy, overbearing, snooty
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie -1 points0 points1 point (19 children) | Copy Link
What dictionary are you using..? I have never heard this word before and I don't think it actually exists in the English language. I checked three dictionaries and found nothing so I'm not sure what word you're trying to use. Thankfully I'm not haughty, lofty, supercilious, snooty, lordly, arrogant, pushy, overbearing, or snooty (again), but I am certainly confused lol
[–]reddut_gang 0 points1 point2 points (18 children) | Copy Link
I don't know about that one
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie 0 points1 point2 points (17 children) | Copy Link
Guess you'll have to take my word for it since you don't actually know me
[–]reddut_gang 0 points1 point2 points (16 children) | Copy Link
You're right, I don't know you in person, but I know you by the comments you write, and the comments you write urge me not to take your word.
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie 0 points1 point2 points (15 children) | Copy Link
I legitimately don't think I've written enough in this comment thread to make myself seem like all of those adjectives at once but I guess because I disagreed with the sentiments expressed in this post that makes me the scum of the earth lmao
[–]irrelevantmoniker 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
women do not equal radical feminists.
Not all women are feminists.
Heck not all feminists are rabid feminists.
Go back to primary school until you've mastered basic comprehension of the written word.
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
At least in primary school boys didn't hate on girls for no reason and instead treated them like equals ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[–]irrelevantmoniker 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you think this bit where you don't read anything people write and just blindly accuse them of hating women on the basis of their sex makes you look clever or noble?
Because it doesn't.
It makes you look like an ineptly programmed chatbot.
[–]evil_banana 86 points87 points88 points (19 children) | Copy Link
If they don't care about us, we don't have to care about them.
Just don't worry about it. Suck as much joy out of life as you possibly can without hindering anyone else's good time. I personally think that's the key to life.
[+]Total-Success2207 -31 points-30 points-29 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Let’s make them care.
[+][deleted] (5 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]ShoutoutsToSimple 48 points49 points50 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Nobody asked them to care about us, either. OP wasn't posting in response to people begging her, personally, to cater to men. She was bitching about the fact that there have been some posts on reddit recently which dare to empathize with men who are struggling. She's such a self-centered asshole that seeing men get attention for once felt like a personal attack to her, so she had to make a whole post saying it's not her job to care.
[+][deleted] -39 points-38 points-37 points (1 child) | Copy Link
None of what you say is true. Misogynists need love and help from strangers as much as misandrists do. And that is, they just need professional help and they aren't owed anything else from total strangers.
[–]Clemicus 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Might help if you could be a bit clearer. Like:
If that's what you meant, you're wrong. Maybe you've heard of empathy. The problem you dismissed is OP saw some uncomfortable posts empathising with them
The thing here is that's being missed, was it threads or comments OP was involved or not involved with? It seems kinda personal. But maybe I'm wrong
PS given your point would that mean ignoring you for the most part and just suggesting you need professional help instead of directly addressing any of your points?
[–]evil_banana 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Literally all of them. Women constantly demand our protection, support, and especially tax dollars.
[–]Bara-enthusiast 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Technically? Everyone makes you care about women. If you dare care about men more you are considered a psychopath
[+][deleted] (11 children) | Copy Link
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[+]baaitbeyteibeizs23 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
If this is what you have to tell yourself to cope, go ahead.
Frankly, I cared a lot about women, much more than I didn’t bout men, and believed feminist ides when I was younger.
Of course then I learned how full of shit and hypocritical feminists are, and that’s what mde me stop caring.
When you learn to see men as people, then maybe we’ll care again
[+][deleted] (5 children) | Copy Link
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[+]baaitbeyteibeizs17 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Lol I’m just telling you the truth.
Lots of mras used to be feminists.
But if you need to tell yourself we were all born evil “women haters” to avoid introspection and accountability, be my guest.
Studies consistently show that men hvw more empathy for women than the other way around
[+][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[+]baaitbeyteibeizs18 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Here’s a list for you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/n894d8/my_list_of_studies_showing_we_care_more_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
[–]Thedoritowizard28 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Ha they deleted their account
[–]evil_banana 9 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I used to greatly. Then when I wanted even a tiny bit of support (like I've always given them) women "friends" basically abandoned me. I have one very good woman friend as an exception; as a rule don't rely on women friends.
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]evil_banana 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
We don't know which ones are the bad ones so its best to be careful until you can trust them. Just like women are careful about men.
[–]AppleJuicePro 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
True. I never have, and never will.
[–]Cedalito 52 points53 points54 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, looking at the damage feminism has done to so many lives, I'd say she, and people like her, who condone feminism, are actually responsible.
[–]jadedlonewolf89 8 points9 points10 points (5 children) | Copy Link
So what I got from that post is this it’s not their job or responsibility to help in any way and they should be able to just sit there and watch someone be abused and not be punished.
All choices have consequences and inaction is still a choice.
Hit someone expect to get hit, put a gun to someone’s head expect that someday someone will put one to yours, stand by as someone gets abused don’t be surprised when that person decides that you’re no better than the abuser and attacks you if they go off the deep end.
[–]name2electricbogalo 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
She is right it's not her responsibility to change a misogynist's mind
[–]jadedlonewolf89 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough just like it’s not anyones responsibility to help another person maybe she’ll remember that the next time she needs help or actually becomes a victim and she’ll keep her mouth shut instead.
Because that’s quite literally what’s being promoted in that post.
[–]name2electricbogalo -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
If it's a family member than it is but when it's not than it's fine, you know how hard and long it is to convicne a bigot to change their mind?
[–]jadedlonewolf89 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
No even family members don’t have the responsibility it’s supposed to be an obligation towards the child that you show them right from wrong to teach them how to take care of themselves and to teach them how to think for themselves but to believe that actually happens is as naive as believing in honor or justice.
And honestly bigotry is a learned behavior and Ben if you don’t learn it from your parents it’s easy enough for pick it up on your own from the Society we live in
[–]rahsoft 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
theyve checked out of the human race. Its their choice.
But they shouldn't expect help from anyone until they can fix their own self created problem
[–]rabel111 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Empathy is an emotional response to the pain or distress of other people. 2xxers are revealing that their misandry expresses itself as reduced human empathy for people based on their sex.
Most MRAs I know have empathy for people regardless of their sex, and find sexist denial of people's pain and distress obnoxious.
The increasing numbers of 2xxers posting their hate speech on r/MensRights suggests that they too are getting tied of the gynocentric bubble babble of modern feminism.
[–]UglySurprise 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
As a woman, I think feminism has gone way too far. It's no longer about being equals, It's about being the superior gender. It gives women self-confidence, but to most, it's not the good kind of self-confidence, where you are content with yourself, you believe in yourself, respect everyone, men and women, and feel that you deserve equality. But the wrong kind, where you see yourself as a goddess walking on earth, a giant gift for everyone that lays their eyes on you, you want equality, respect, kindness, but you won't give the same in return. This mindset needs to change because our intentions got lost in the way. People are going to hate this comment, but feminism changed a lot over the years, and it's not going to lead to equality and peace.
[–]rahsoft 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
respectfully I don't it has been for a very long time( maybe 2 centuries ago)
[–]reddut_gang 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
never has been
[–]khaste 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
ok i guess its not my responsiblity to care about womens issues then?
Fuck it, i dont want to hear about pregnancy, abortion, periods etc issues ever again if we wanna play that game :)
[–]throwawayincelacc 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Go one step further!
If we were like feminists, we could change public views and laws surrounding women, THEN tell them it's not out responsibility to fix their problems!
Women want circumcision to be a thing? What if we forced women to undergo breast implants? or FGM? Then after all that we tell them it's not our responsibility to care? Flip the genders on common issues and it's disgusting how much outcry you'd get.
[–]YourFavouriteGuy 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
What online misogynists need depends what they think misogyny is. If misogyny is merely lack of support of feminism or criticisms of women, then no, "misogynists" don't need any of that.
If they mean actual men who hate women, then those men need to have been born in a society which encourages mutual respect between the genders. Why? Because it's less likely that men will respect women if women don't respect men. Also, it would help if they were born in a decent household.
[–]throwawayincelacc 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m just incredibly confused by this messaging and always left wondering if they truly believe anything they say.
Men are apparently responsible to protecting women against “bad men”
But now women are not responsible for protecting men against “bad women”
At least that’s what I’m getting from her post. She rationalizes being a bad person towards them because suddenly it’s not her responsibility. Women under feminism truly retain no agency.
[–]Total-Success2207 15 points16 points17 points (6 children) | Copy Link
If you are a man that wants rights, you have a mental illness. Edit: this only got downvotes because people called me out on it.
[–]Mavcu 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
This seems like genuinely misrepresenting issues, and pretty echo-chambery from what I can see in this thread.
I'm pretty sure both sides hype themselves up to see some imaginery enemy that does not exist as they do in your minds (some extremist exceptions exist of course, but in real life most people don't fall into that category).
The crosspost clearly references actual garbage humans, that act out and are toxic, which if you analyze the individual might come down to them having issues&needing help; but no individual wants to help a stranger that can't behave themselves. If a feminist is crazy about men, spouting sexist shit I can assure you that no one wants to sit down and help her either. (Mind you whenever I say "no one", I refer to the average person, some super kind hearted person that just needs to help others might be the exception here).
Nothing about this post suggests that a healthy individual, that just wants more equality/rights, or have men issues known, is targeted with that comment.
[–]throwawayincelacc 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
I agree with your overall sentiment, however, men in general have been painted as this black hole of toxicity.
*ALL* men are rapists, unless you're one of the good ones
*ALL* men are toxic, unless you're one of the good ones
*ALL* single men are terrorists, unless you're just a playboy. (Yes, in Canada they started equating all single men as incels and being an incel is a hate crime)
So you consider that the poster is on TwoX, one of the largest man-hating subs. It's fair to assume from how previous posts there basically assume all men are disposable trash, that our poster here shares the same opinions. Once you make that connection, you figure that this blanket misogynist statement probably refers to every single person on this sub as well.
So again, while I agree with your sentiment, about it being difficult to help and be kind to people who spit on your face, the connotations and context of the actual post are more along the lines of "men, it's your problem, not my responsibility even if my movement treats you like shit".
If the poster had come to men's rights, made a similar post with wording such as "I believe in men's rights, I believe a lot of you need more kindness than you get, but it's hard when there's misogynists that hate women and bite my head off when I'm just being nice". Guaranteed the post would be treated much differently with more discourse regarding the goodwill of the poster.
[–]Mavcu -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
My issue with this, despite completely understanding your point of view and experiences, is that this is also very heavily painted by social media usage.
Now maybe overseas is just an absolute slaughter house of a mess politically (I mean, it probably is now to some degree), but seeing it from Europe, in person a lot of this stuff does vanish. Most people in real life don't have these edge case "hard" discussions with insults left and right. You are usually just left with the normal, average "nice" person.
Sure some social norms still persist, how men have to be etc - but the same is true for our sisters, that they "have" to uphold certain societal standards. I see us as all in this together, and arguing with extremists is generally a waste of time, I often see people in this sub getting enraged by some extremist point of view, almost shifting into the territory "all women are like this / are against us" - again, the internet is crazy and the craziest get a platform so you will see some insane opinions. (Mind you this completely disregards actual issues like family court etc. - I'm purely talking about societal and interpersonal issues)
[–]throwawayincelacc 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
It also pops up in mass media. It would be a lot easier to be out of sight, out of mind if it weren't pervasive in real, day to day life. I don't even use facebook / twitter / insta / snapchat / tiktok but these types of articles painting men as the bad guy come up. The biggest wake up call was the #metoo movement which has infiltrated day to day life.
I'm not really sure what this means, but you are right, I don't have any experience in the European world. Different countries / cultures will definitely be more or less progressive on topics of gender and I'm in the North American culture so I can only really speak of the culture here. That's definitely a good point to define when talking about gender politics.
100%, given our biology and history, I don't see us ever getting to the point that where society does not expect something specific of a man or woman. If you want a specific case that I'd like to refer to, it's the body positivity movement. Feminism fought for women to be represented in all shapes, colors, sizes, but this has not moved over to men getting the same privilege. So men don't see feminism as a movement of equality, but just for benefitting themselves. And I generally agree with something like a body positivity movement, but if it never gets applied to men, it just becomes more toxic than it already was.
At least you'll see some comments that take a more rational look, even on this subreddit. The internet has become a breeding ground for insanity as even the most fringe opinions can find a home somewhere. It will generally be difficult to sort the extremist views that won't make it to policy, compared to extremist views that will make it to policy, as both might garner the same amount of support online, especially when we talk about feminism and man hating. You look at cancelling father's day / men's day. It may have been an extremist point of view to begin, but now it's pervasive in government. This makes it very difficult for certain groups, such as mens rights, to filter out a portion of opinions as there's no good indicator of what can or cannot become widespread.
[–]Mavcu 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah as you've stated initially, it's crucial to know which cultural environment you are talking about, hence I won't go into detail about issues that I can't objectively comment on, or even subjectively. Though this is a point, that as tiring as the whole gender politics is, I am curious to witness for myself in North America, from what I am reading on the internet, it seems to be insanity itself when it comes to race/gender politics. (A little side note, not to digress too much, but to demonstrate the differences, using the term race is not even [socially] allowed in Germany, as it refers back to race theory which is outdated model, so it's always a bit weird to hear Americans use it frequently)
I see your point and body dysmorphia etc is a massive issue, especially if you look into the realm of fitness, young men have absolutely delusional ideals (due to social media mostly), I'd go as far as to say that any young men pursuing fitness (read: bodybuilding) has an incredibly high chance of actually having slight body dysmorphia at the very least. Beyond that there's other issues like height shaming etc.
That said, I'd remind you that in real life those body positivity movements don't really work. I've never seen fat shaming ever go away or even be remotely stiffled, in our "boys group" we still objectify women just as much as men, and even in educational scenarios, as long as you watch how you word things, you can get away with many statements, that go directly against body positivity. It's generally a tad more "be careful to not make small girls sad, the boys can handle it" type of thing, but it's not a massive divide. It's more of a media gig to me than an actual movement that had real-life applications.
I'll give you that they have achieved fat models and clothing sections that represent that, but the actual people in real life just chuckle at that for the most part, it's not taken seriously at all, aside from a minority.
I've seen that one, that's actually crazy, again this is sort of the difference in how far this movement has gone in the US vs. the rest of the world, and not to take away from that issue, but often times people see an issue elsewhere, see "their group" upset about it and then take it to their own country, when it's not even a massive issue there.
This applies by the way to all movements, seeing "Black Lives Matter" in Germany was very confusing to me, seeing people fight (certain forms) of feminism in Germany, was very confusing to me. Both of these issues have their legitimacy in parts, but it really depends on context and where it is applied.
[–]throwawayincelacc 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You're absolutely correct. Body positivity movement doesn't necessarily change what body type another person is attracted to. To me this part of the argument comes down more to the double standard being represented when the body positivity is brought to the female lead role, but not the male. In representation, it's disappointing, but as you mentioned, even if both are represented equally, it doesn't mean this translates to tangible, every day changes.
I found this one crazy! A lot of countries are facing different, and equally important biases / cultural instabilities. But then they appropriate a movement happening in another country / culture. One strong example of this even between Canada / USA was that the Prime Minister tweeted that the RCMP (canadian police force basically) was heavily racist during the Floyd riots. The commissioner replied about the allegations: "if systemic racism is meaning that racism is entrenched in our policies and procedures, I would say that we don't have systemic racism."
You can read the full article below which might provide some more context, but it's still interesting how around the first world, the BLM made such a wave.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-systemic-racism-lucki-trudeau-1.5607622
I find there's a lot of difficulty because we may see men (or black or asian or any other division) suffering in another place and it's easy to be outraged by their treatment on their behalf. Most of us here have great degrees of empathy. But it's difficult sometimes because we have the immediate emotional response to seeing the treatment elsewhere, but don't have the cultural context behind what's happening. A good example is India and how men are treated there. You can find articles posted around MensRights about what's happening to men in India, but equally I've seen some pretty outrageous things happening to women and in the context of the overall culture, it just seems like the less fortunate groups in India are being taken down, not just men or women specifically.
Cheers
[–]Hey_itsmeguys 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
"Why don't men open up more?"
[–]Half-blind-bear 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
What a callous world view this woman has. So many men help their partners through severe depression and crippling anxiety without asking for anything but love in return. My wife in turn helped me show my emotions more openly and be less reserved. The world can be a tough place and no one is good at everything. Looking after each other is how we survive. This lady and her supporters seem to be going through some challenges and seem to have dealt with some awful men. I hope they find a friend to pull them out and show them not every man is like that and that kindness is the way forward.
[–]name2electricbogalo 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
She didn't talk about a partnet? You mean to tell me if you see a misandrist it's your responsibility to change that person's mind?
[–]Half-blind-bear 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I would say we have a responsibility to be kind until given a reason not to. You could start by challenging it from a place of understanding and genuinely wanting them to change rather than rage and hate. You might not be able to fix the person but there is no need to break them further.
Ofcourse online everyone is terrible but in your personal interactions I would day this is a good rule to follow.
[–]name2electricbogalo 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah but we're not talking about just being nice we're talking about befriending that person and spending all this time talking to that person, getting someone to stop being a bigot is a long process
[–]Half-blind-bear 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I've had to end some friendships over stuff like that. It's not an easy thing to do. You make a good point. I guess you help as many as you can but accept that some people aren't ready to change.
[+][deleted] (35 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]emix16 37 points38 points39 points (20 children) | Copy Link
So we don't have to worry about others mental health? Why would I care about trans peoples mental health problems? I don't think you need to think about these questions much to come up with an answer. I think we as people should try to help and care for each other.
[–]ShoutoutsToSimple 26 points27 points28 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Right? How quickly their tune will change as soon as the target changes. Suddenly we aren't responsible for other people's mental health? I guess I am literally never respecting preferred pronouns ever again. Who cares if I call a transman "she" and she ends up killing herself afterward? I'm not responsible for anyone else's mental health, right?
[+]LiberryBanaSmoothie -11 points-10 points-9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You're not responsible for improving anyone's mental health. That doesn't mean you get to be an asshole and actively drive someone to suicide. The original post was that women aren't responsible for helping men not be misogynists, not that women should do things which are actively detrimental to men's mental health.
[+][deleted] (17 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]emix16 18 points19 points20 points (8 children) | Copy Link
I hope you learn something from these downvotes and understand why you got these downvotes. Have a nice day
[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points (7 children) | Copy Link
I don't give a fuck how many downvotes I get. No one is responsible for any stranger's mental health and if saying that makes me the asshole, I don't care.
[–]emix16 28 points29 points30 points (6 children) | Copy Link
No. Thinking like that doesn't make you an asshole. That is just your opinnion. It's the aggressive tone you write with that makes you look like an entitles asshole.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Oh, I'm sorry my tone isn't nice enough. It's not my fucking responsibility to make my tone nice.
[–]emix16 24 points25 points26 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Are you just bitter or why can't you talk about this like an adult? Are you really that immature or are you just having a bad day? If so, I hope you reach out to a friend and ask them to talk with you.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Would talking about it like an adult be saying "well this proves women don't care about men so thus we don't have to care about women".
[–]emix16 27 points28 points29 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Better. Now remove the sarcasm when you type it. Hope your day gets better.
[–]throwawaybear61 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
The fault in your reasoning is that you imagine anyone should pay the slightest attention to your stupid nonsense. You’ve had your fun here troll. Go back to FDS etc and tell the rest of the girls how brave you were. Blocked.
[–]YourFavouriteGuy 13 points14 points15 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Ok yes, they did, now what. Should I go on a sub for cis people and make a whole post how I'm not responsible for trans people's mental health?
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Yeah sure. People would agree with you because no one is responsible for anyone's mental health except therapists. It doesn't matter about the gender of who asked.
[–]YourFavouriteGuy 18 points19 points20 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Nobody would agree with me, and you would probably attack me for doing so. Don't be disingenuous.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Okay, I agree she shouldn't be generalizing men. Maybe she feels depended on by men irl and it's starting to weigh on her? I just don't want to assume things just because she's a woman that said negative stuff about men.
[–]YourFavouriteGuy 10 points11 points12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Ah yes, because men are known for desiring emotional rather than sexual attention most often. Oh wait no wrong gender.
Also, it's not irl, it's clearly "online misogynists" and I don't even know why she's helping them.
She says it's not her responsibility to help men, especially since the men who ask her for help are apparently giving her "condescension, abuse, and rape threats." She's not actually wrong, it's nobody's legal responsibility to "help" others,
The issue comes in here
>I've seen so, so much discourse over the last few days about how what online misogynists really need is kindness and understanding
Okay no, first off, we know feminists have a warped definition of "misogynist" and secondly, none of that discourse is happening. Anybody who says "misogynists/incels/hateful men need kindness" is now the misogynist/incel/hateful man. It just looks like some guy said that X group (who are people she thinks are misogynists but aren't) need help and she doesn't want them to be helped because they are supposedly misogynists.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
But she's not just assuming random men are misogynists.
[–]YourFavouriteGuy 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
>random men are misogynists.
She is, what are you talking about. She says
"online misogynists really need is kindness and understanding to help them because "they need it the most.""
Okay so either she's strawmanning here (hardly anyone actually says this) or she's just saying any guy who's depressed is an online misogynist? It's one of the two, nobody gives a fuck about online misogynists or even the mental health of men in general.
[–]Werwet10 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
And did any other person DM her to take help with their mental health? When MRAs talk about mental health...it is a general topic of discussion!
[–]benderXX[S] 27 points28 points29 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Keep lurking. One day you will look after yourself. You will have no choice
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
What? I already look after myself. I don't ask men for shit.
[–]emix16 18 points19 points20 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Why did this become a gender problem for you?
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm being told to look after myself by people who don't know a thing about me. And I'm saying I fucking do look after myself so fuck off.
Oh, sorry about that last part. I forgot I'm responsible for the feelings of strangers. Gotta police by tone or I'll get downvoted.
[–]emix16 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You seem like the kinda guy that gets beaten up at a bar and wonders why. You sure get offended easily.
[–]benderXX[S] 22 points23 points24 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Good. Get used to it.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you take care of yourself?
[–]throwawaybear61 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
And I certainly did not nor would not ask her for help with anything. What’s your point?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
OP said in the title "its not our responsibility" like he was implying the woman in the OP wanted his help.
[–]TheLoneJakalope 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
It’s not anyone’s sole responsibility to be kind to anyone for no reason whatsoever; however, if an individual values their OWN happiness, they will often recognize how important happiness is, and how difficult it can be to create.
Once any decent person puts the true weight and gravity of happiness on their consciousness, it’s not hard to be nice. It’s not hard to want happiness for others. It also becomes much easier to let unhappy people, who don’t want to be happy, be themselves.
We, as human beings living in a society, do actually have responsibilities and obligations to our tribes. One of those obligations is absolutely the survival of said tribe, and we can’t do that when the tribe is always divided in itself for no reason other than division.
So no, no one asked me… but morality and society kind of makes it everyone’s job.
[–]emix16 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Good to know some people get it.
[–]LiberryBanaSmoothie -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
The issue is more about being kind and caring to people who are horrible to you. At a certain point you're not obligated to try and make that person happy when they don't even see you as human.
[–]EMPIREVSREBLES 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Okay I'm not gonna care about any woman on the internet asking for support because they got raped. It's just not my responsibility to give a flying fuck about them...
[–]khaste 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
but she would be the first one i bet to ask for sympathy and empathy about "muh womens issues"
[+]seeyeay -17 points-16 points-15 points (17 children) | Copy Link
Hey, all im saying is that we all come from a woman.
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
And?
[+]seeyeay -10 points-9 points-8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
So some where along the line, a woman is responsible
Edit: the post is literally just about a lowbrow relationship complaint. It would simply be resolved with better communication. That or people don't date shitty people. Shes saying its not her responsibility to hold the emotional labour. But what is she doing to change it.
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Hold up run it back real quick. what do you mean by "Somewhere along the line a woman is responsible"?
[–]Dllrisin 7 points8 points9 points (12 children) | Copy Link
We all started as sperm cells in men
[–]racheltpotts -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
Fun fact, the sperm doesn’t race to egg and the fastest strongest one wins, the egg actually releases hormones to attract the most favourable sperm and chooses which sperm is allowed to fertilise it
[–]Dllrisin 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
What's your point?
[–]racheltpotts -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
It’s just a fun fact, no need to be so argumentative
[–]Dllrisin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I thought you were trying to prove a point. Sorry
[+]seeyeay -7 points-6 points-5 points (7 children) | Copy Link
True! But you dont raise a sperm
[–]Dllrisin 4 points5 points6 points (5 children) | Copy Link
So what? We wouldnt be here without men. Men are very important for the creation of children and even raising children
[–]seeyeay -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
And? Thats not really my point. My point is that women should take responsibility, as they are raising the people who end up like OP's post. Yall are madcuzbad
[–]Dllrisin 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
And that's why they need a father figure
[–]seeyeay 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You're still missing the point and taking my post personally, you fucking retard
[–]seeyeay 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
You're still missing the point and taking my post personally, you fucking retard
[–]Dllrisin -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
No need to be hostile
[–]throwawaybear61 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You don’t raise an egg either. Not seeing your point. Edit:correct a word
[–]khaste 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
thanks for the biology lesson
[+]racheltpotts -18 points-17 points-16 points (27 children) | Copy Link
The men the OP is posting are misogynists? Not just normal guys. Don’t get why people are saying ‘they don’t care about us’ Are yall misogynists??
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 14 points15 points16 points (10 children) | Copy Link
To answer your question, no, we're not.
To help alleviate some confusion, the reason there's an issue is because the definition of misogynist has become so broad and all encompassing that at this rate simply having a single XY chromosome in your body can get you branded as one.
As a sidenote, you appear to either accidentally or on purpose used a motte and bailey fallacy. (the act of conflating two similar stances one easy to defend and one more controversial and harder to defend, hiding behind the easily defended one when challenged and then returning too the more controversial proposition once the metaphoric coast is clear
[–]racheltpotts -3 points-2 points-1 points (9 children) | Copy Link
But surely by reacting this way to this post, you guys are either self labelling yourselves, or expecting at some point to be labelled a misogynists. The definition of racism has also broadened a lot recently but I don’t expect to be called racist. So it makes me wonder what behaviour are you doing that is making people call you a misogynist?
It could be a push to call you that, but I don’t know what the behaviour was. I don’t know if you are or not. But a lot of the stuff I’ve seen on this subreddit is pretty bad. Like people downvoting people just for disagreeing but being completely right
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 6 points7 points8 points (8 children) | Copy Link
You're partially correct there, we expect to be called misogynists because 3rd / 4th wave feminism practically defines all men as misogynist.
It's not any behaviour that gets most men called misogynists online, it's existing as a male. Of course there will be people who are misogynistic as well but 3rd / 4th wave feminism has cast such a wide metaphorical net that the term just becomes this catch all buzzword too shut down any one particular individual from speaking.
Worse yet, by casting that huge net you get alot of innocent people caught up in the argument and from those people's perspective they've just been randomly attacked by some random group that seems to rally around and hold feminine / femininity as akin to divinity resulting in them becoming galvanised against such things creating actual misogynists.
What I'm trying to get at is this. In It's current state the term misogynist and it's synonyms are so overused, overstretched and outright misused that it's become yet another insult just thrown at someone too try and shut them up and get people too dismiss them outright because they're 'one of those people' and because it's so broadly used you only need to fit the most barebones superficial factors to be labeled (Male for misogynist, White for racist). Which as mentioned before will turn people into actual misogynists and racists if not stopped (a sort of "Well if they're going to treat me like shit because of my race / gender I'll do it back" thought process)
[–]racheltpotts -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
I don’t agree with radical feminism. It’s very often taken too far and I agree some of the people involved in that do hate men for just existing.
What I will ask is, and hear me out, is that sometimes when you do something you see as fine and someone else sees as misogynistic, could it be that you’re just not on the receiving end so don’t see anything wrong with it? For example catcalling, or asking a women (not a friend) to smile because she ‘looks prettier’, slut shaming, these are all little things that a lot of guys wouldn’t call themselves misogynistic for doing. But they very much are. Edit: Just to clarify I don’t mean every time you’re called misogynistic that the other person is right. I just mean some of the time that could be the case
Essentially I agree that sometimes feminism is taken too far. But you can’t tar everyone with the same brush. Simply expecting to be called a misogynist for having doing or saying nothing and just existing still seems a little suspicious. Like if someone said this to me in real life, I’d probably assume he just didn’t know he had caused offence the time he’d been called a misogynist. But again, that is because I have very rarely seen someone been called misogynistic and it hasn’t been justified.
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 3 points4 points5 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Well it's certainly possible that a man could do something seen as misogynistic and simply not be aware of it. However that doesn't mean that most / everytime someone gets called misogynistic that we can automatically assume it's being used accurately.
Narrow the amount of men down to the men on this sub? no one here would ever do any of the things you've listed because we're hyper-aware of how biased in favour of women the courts (both legal and the court public opinion) and society as a whole is. (If you'd like proof of that claim I can send you a link to another post that lists myriad ways society favours women).
[–]racheltpotts -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
I agree with your first paragraph and even part of your second. But looking at this subreddit I’ve seen so often comments downvoted for solely disagreeing. For example there’s one on this post saying ‘We all came from a women’ And I can’t really see what’s wrong with that comment.
I think courts can be biased, there’s time where women receive lesser sentences for similar crimes. But there’s also times when they are biased towards men. Like when women trying to get custody claim they or the children have been abused, the man is unfortunately more likely to get custody. Unfortunately the bias goes both ways. But being aware of the bias is a great way of moving forward and hopefully addressing it.
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Could you provide me with some examples of family court being bias against women? because all it takes is one quick search too show hundreds of men being fucked over by the courts simply because the mother is female.
[–]racheltpotts 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Yes no problem. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/a-gendered-trap-when-mothers-allege-child-abuse-by-fathers-the-mothers-often-lose-custody-study-shows/2019/07/28/8f811220-af1d-11e9-bc5c-e73b603e7f38_story.html%3foutputType=amp
https://wamu.org/story/19/08/19/fathers-are-favored-in-child-custody-battles-even-when-abuse-is-alleged/
I can provide more if you like
A lot of the time big general studies show women are more likely to get custody and this is because men more often do not ask for or want custody which skews the numbers. So if you look at any studies just make sure they’re only looking at cases where the man has asked/is fighting for custody
[–]Memes_The_Warbeast 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for these links but do you have the studies themselves? I'm skeptical by nature and this are articles based on studies thus filtered through the authors PoV
[–]Ok_Research219 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Shame Insult Guilt and the Need to be right
SIGN Language
Those tactics don’t work on everyone.
[–]throwawayincelacc 5 points6 points7 points (12 children) | Copy Link
Pre-emptively labeling all men on /r/mensrights as misogynists and acting like it’s MRAs that are bad for society when your posts prove quite the opposite
[–]racheltpotts -1 points0 points1 point (11 children) | Copy Link
What rights do you not have that women do? Edit: I also haven’t labelled you all misogynists. I was asking if you were, based on your reactions to the OP
[–]saj978 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Oh god you are so ignorant, have you ever read any posts on this subreddit?
[–]racheltpotts -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes. Lots. Also rather than insulting me why don’t you explain why I’m supposedly ignorant or even answer the question I asked?
[–]saj978 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Ok then, this indicates that you are high or extremely ignorant
[–]racheltpotts -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
You’re still being extremely vague. I’m looking for logic. Although I haven’t seen much on this sub.
[–]throwawayincelacc 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
The other comments in this chain say you've read posts on this subreddit, but I've never seen your name come up in any discussions and you haven't addressed any issues men face.
Specifically for legal rights?
1) The right to a fair trial with outcomes equivalent to what women get. Women get the pussy pass. AKA no jail / consequences for the same crimes men get put behind bars for years. Between actual sentencing and sentence duration, men get a really short end here.
2a) The right to equal custody of a child in a divorce. Women are generally painted as gods in family court that allows them default custody of children in many parts of the world, including where I live. It's completely unheard of here to have equal custody of a child if the woman doesn't want, just because men have no rights here.
2b) Child support is basically another man tax, as even when men win child custody, they rarely get awarded child support since men can only win custody if they're self-sufficient and independent. Even if they have majority custody, women can skip out on paying and especially in the USA, the government doesn't care.
3) The right to attend post-secondary education. Laws put in place allow universities to legally refuse "privileged" groups (basically just targeting men, and more specifically white men) to allow for "under privileged" groups to attend. Especially in cases of gender, women already held overall majority in most countries for post secondary, and they used these laws to block men from certain fields.
4) The right to innocence until proven guilty for men. With the #metoo movement gaining traction, any sense of innocent until proven guilty has gone out the window. It went straight to a guilty on the spot, no questions asked state. Men were being accused left and right, without proof, and their lives were being ruined. I'm sure some deserved it, there were still a lot of men that didn't deserve it and #metoo was being weaponized against them for petty squabbles or just for fun. Even if acquitted by a court, social media and publications will still attack men that have been accused. Once you're targeted by #metoo, your life is over.
So yes, when people are calling you ignorant, it's because you are. Your head is so far up your own ass that you still manage to get lost in the clouds. You live in a toxic matriarchy of man hating and can't even take one ounce of responsibility for what you're contributing to.
[–]racheltpotts -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
2a. Men are only statistically less likely to get custody as they in general don’t ask for it. If they’re not fighting to get it, of course they won’t be granted it. Women are also less likely to get custody if she claims she or the child has been abused. I think this also disputes your point about me too(4) As it shows women are generally less believed, at least in family court anyway.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/536103/ If anything, men are more likely to be accepted now so the colleges acceptance rates look more even.
I’m not really sure what to say about your point about men being accused left and right. I know plenty of women who have been sexually assaulted and not one of them brought it up with the man unless it was their partner. Not one of them reported it. Because they knew they wouldn’t be believed and they didn’t want the hassle. I also know far many more people who have been assaulted, than people who have been accused. Falsely or not.
[–]throwawayincelacc 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
https://www.reddit.com/r/rbomi/wiki/main#wiki_section_3.3A_legal.2C_governmental.2C_or_institutional_policies_and_practices
This is purely anecdotal, unless you claim to know all women on the planet, and none of them have lied.
Two pronged argument here. The first is that they don't ask for it. Do you have a source on this? There's tons of evidence online and I know for a fact here (since it's even built into company policy training) that women have the default where I live. Any man that went through a divorce knows this for most of the 1st world. There's a difference between a couple agreeing to let the woman have full custody, and the court awarding full custody by default. https://archive.is/fmNHp
Nearly all sex specific scholarships go to women. Boys being graded worse than girls in school. Schools allowed to block specific groups (like men) so that women can take the spots even with worse grades. Here's a discussion on Sweden where people want to abolish gender quotas because suddenly they aren't favoring women anymore: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/oc9ios/women_currently_represent_about_60_percent_of/
basically
when more men then women in uni: discrimination
when more women then men in uni: equality
[–]rahsoft 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
nope
let me give you an example such as sharia law whereby the mother gets default custody or in western custody the default is not 50-50 its about 70 or 80 % to the mother as default. combined with abusive tactics from acrimonous mothers this turns into defacto 100%RT custody
[–]rahsoft 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
example google mark Pearson who was falsely accused because it turned out that the prosecution service was trying to meet political targets.
His accuser( an actress from GOT) got anonymity despite her ridiculous claim that he raped her on a train station in front a cttv camera when he passed her in a time window of about one second_)
[–]racheltpotts -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It is awful that that happened to him and alot of fault lies with the prosecution service in that instance, not just the accuser.
At the same time, that is an incredibly rare occurrence. As a man you are more likely to be raped yourself than falsely accused. Surely if we tackle rape/sexual assault/harassment as a society, false accusations can be tackled at the same time. I think the reason people focus much more on the assaults themselves than the false allegations is simply that the assaults are much mor prevalent than false accusations
[–]rahsoft 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Lenient sentencing
genital integrity
default position of custody
the draft for US military
affirmative action( when you are 50% of the population you dont need affirmative action especially when it issued to ride roughshod over the disabled,ethinic and religious minorities...)
etc
etc
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes they are.
[–]reddut_gang -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
she is right. the vice versa example, would also be right. why should I give a shit about a misandrist? however, if you only say that one is right and the other is wrong, you are a clown.