Feminist stumbles into RPW. Agrees with a LOT of points. Confusion ensues. Please help!!

OccamsUsername · 2014-01-06T08:47:36+00:00

Having a tattoo doesn't exclude you from being a RPW, but having many tattoos can be an indicator of other undesirable characteristics.

I don't think that the way a woman looks should judge her inner character, especially if her partner embraces those qualities and loves her for them.

If a man appreciates the way a woman looks, that is a judgement on her character (and a very positive one, he's attracted to her). You don't have to go all out and wear makeup or dress indecently. I rarely wear makeup and my style is very modest. We believe in being healthy, and working to stay in good condition. Our men work hard to stay fit and keep us drooling, so we should be doing the same. Doing so creates a great foundation, and says that we want to be alive and kicking for a long-time to come.

When it comes to partner count, we believe that sex should be precious, and shared only with men that truly care for and love you. It's true that some men are more willing to accept higher partner counts than others. Some men think it's all right so long as the sex takes place within a dedicated relationship. Our view is conservative for many reasons, but most especially (for me at least) because far too many people teach women that a hook-up culture will have no negative effects on a young woman. I know numerous women that eagerly defend the advantages of today's FWB's culture. They talk about how happy they are and how all their needs are met, but then, after they are done selling their happiness - they confess their insecurities. They wonder why they can't find a relationship. They say one thing, but feel another. I have seen far too many women get hurt by lying to themselves, and confusing 'sex' with validation.

A very close female friend of mine enthusiastically embraced the hook-up culture to an extreme degree. She finally had a total break-down after yet another one-night-stand-turned-ugly-relationship left her completely shattered. She became celibate for a few years, and started again. She didn't hide her history, but she worked to become a better person. It was a struggle, and she relapsed for a time, but she did find a good man. They have been together for quite some time, and I have never seen her happier. I'm glad she turned things around, but not all women are so lucky.

Here's the problem with feminism: it isn't about equality, it's about putting women above men. If feminism was really as accepting as it claims, then you would be able to bring up the very topics that you say you can't bring up anywhere else.

Red Pill Women are strong, despite all the non-RP user's claims that we aren't. We are business owners, and students. Some of us choose to stay at home, or become mothers. We love our men and like to make them happy, but that is seen as 'evil' for some reason.

I believe in equality for men and women. If a woman is smart enough, she should be a doctor. If a woman is strong enough (meaning, she can qualify under the male physical requirements) she should join the Armed Forces or become a firefighter. I don't believe that one set of standards for men and another set of standards for women promotes equality, it only makes things easier for one sex. I think women should be cautious and know their limits - yet promoting common sense is immediately labelled as 'victim-bashing.' The fact that I myself was raped in no way legitimizes my views in the eyes of feminists....even the ones that have never been raped think they no more than I do.

I think it's good that you are questioning your beliefs. Feminism covers many different kinds of ideas, but there's a lot of anger displayed whenever someone tries to say "I'm happy in my relationship and I enjoy deferring to my SO." In my experience, feminism promotes many things, and almost all of them are at the detriment of men. Your experience may be different, and if that's the case, I'm happy for you....but what does it say about feminism, which claims to be all about equality, that there are things you know you cannot say in their presence? Things that you personally believe?

Keep asking questions and searching for answers. Be patient with yourself and don't rush.

Welcome to RPW, I hope you decide to stay.

:0)

2014-01-06T15:09:59+00:00

There's a difference between you being a great person and compatible long term partner. Sure, you could have all the tattoos in the world and still cure cancer. You could bang every adult male in the western hemisphere and still be generous and gracious person that anyone would love to be friends with. There are a number of things that would make you an incredible and successful person, but those are not things that attract men and keep them romantically involved with you.

secularist42 · 2014-01-06T17:21:12+00:00

I don't think that the way a woman looks should judge her inner character, especially if her partner embraces those qualities and loves her for them.

You aren't thinking about it from a male perspective. What men value in a partner isn't what you want in a partner.

These guidelines about tattoos and partner count are just that...guidelines...but they do have a tendency towards exposing the realistic chance of success.

My wife (who has a couple small unseen tattoos) fulfills the two most important categories for ME: The Two P's...she's pretty and she's pleasant. It's really not any more complicated than that.

sugarcrush · 2014-01-06T15:59:47+00:00

If you are confused, keep reading! There are a lot of great resources in the sidebar. I am partial to the "married man sex life" view of the red pill myself, so maybe you should start there ;)

RPW is explicitly anti-feminist, so if you plan on coming at everything from that point of view you are probably going to have a bad time. To give you an idea of my own personal views, I am all for equal opportunity, equal access, and equal protection under the law but the current wave has taken things MUCH too far and seeks to place women above men rather than have equal footing.

About the tattoos and partner counts: your actions, including how you present yourself, do say something about your inner character. To say otherwise is... I'm not sure what the right word is, too idealistic maybe? If you alter yourself in a permanent manner, that DOES say something about your inner character. But, it can say different things to different people. Some men find tattoos attractive, but the majority do not (my anecdotal experience, no numbers sorry!) and that is why we advocate against tattoos. Same with sleeping around. If you choose to behave promiscuously, that's fine! Good for you! But most men will judge you for that, and probably in a negative manner. Are you doomed to spinsterhood? No, saying that would be silly when so many women with high partner counts do find long term partners. But you have to realize that having a high # is going to count against you with many men.

Those examples above illustrate to me one of the essences of the red pill, that is ignored far too often these days: actions have consequences. How you behave and conduct and present yourself matters. All that we have to judge people on is their appearance, physically and how they "appear" to others meaning feminine masculine preppy nerdy etc, and that's not only okay but the right thing to do.

Do some more reading, on both sides, and then just take a break for awhile and process what you know and how you are feeling. Avoid any gender discussion and figure out your own inner beliefs and what works for you and your relationship, if you are in one. I hope you find a worldview that speaks to you clearly and maybe we will see you back here soon :)

wendy-fly · 2014-01-06T17:33:56+00:00

I feel similarly to you. I'm coming to understand that perhaps the world is not so black and white that there is only one philosophy that works or should be taken into account. Perhaps I should learn and keep my eyes open and not get stuck in a single mind frame, bettering myself. I don't need things to be One Way or The Other. For me, wisdom lies somewhere between.

2014-01-06T21:18:55+00:00

But I also find myself disagreeing with some other posts on this subreddit. For instance, I don't think a high number of male partners essentially dooms a woman to spinsterhood. I think tattoos, along with other body modifications, are individual choices - although I would never get a tattoo. I don't think that the way a woman looks should judge her inner character, especially if her partner embraces those qualities and loves her for them.

My tuppence on this, if I may use a slightly off topic/bad analogy to frame it.

Imagine you're going to a dog shelter and getting a rescue dog. You've the choice of three: 1)A Staffordshire bull terrier with a really sweet temperament 2)A cute terrier with a really sweet temperament 3)An amazing, Crufts winning poodle with a snappy temperament.

Number three, well, they'd be good in the ring but absolute heck to live with. Good for a bit to get the glory, but in the end you just wouldn't be able to put up with the behaviour.

Number one, well, it's nicely behaved, but those dogs have a reputation. Chances are, you're going to bypass it sheerly because of the reputation, y'know?

Number two, well, it probably won't ring any prizes, but it's cute. It's got a good nature and really makes you happier when it's around. Overall, you're most likely to take that one home and feed it biscuits and let it sleep on the hearth and so on so forth.

Okay, back to people. Think of your poodle as your 8/9 slut. Pretty looking, but quite a few people have, for lack of a better word, 'owned' them before. This makes you think 'Welp' because if all the others had a problem, you're probably going to. So, okay, maybe 'rescue' them near a time when you can show them off, but in the long term? Lol no.

Think of your Staffie as your person who's extremely nice on the inside but looks unfortunate/has the body modifications. When you get to know them, they might be fab, amazing, the person you really want to spend your life with- but the getting to know them is the thing. Are you gonna approach someone as LTR material if they have all the flags of being, well, not? Like it or not, preconceptions exist and, in many ways, are kinda good things. Ideally, you want to avoid setting off these alarms as much as possible.

Let's take the terrier as a RPW. Sure, she's still got her faults. Maybe she isn't the blonde bombshell in the Bond movie, but hey. She's cute enough and you find her attractive. Moreover, she's loyal and a genuinely nice person to be about. She enhances your life rather than take away from it- sure, maybe it's a bit more work, but it's worth it in the end because of the stuff she gives back. This mix of the nice attractive and the nice person makes her a lot more likely to be noticed by a quality guy and more likely to be considered good LTR material.

As far as I can see, this sub basically advocates being the terrier over the poodle or the staffie. It's harder work than letting yourself go or just enjoying the ride until you slam into a ton of bricks in your thirties or so, but there we are.

I know this doesn't fully address all of the post, but hopefully it's useful in regards to that little section.:)

Also, this may be complete and utter rubbish. Sorry, I've lurked since September without an account and this is the first time anything's been posted. Apologies to the lovely ladies here if that's the case. ^{^'}

TempestTcup · 2014-01-06T14:23:52+00:00

For instance, I don't think a high number of male partners essentially dooms a woman to spinsterhood. I think tattoos, along with other body modifications, are individual choices

A high number of partners and an excessive amount of tattoos is sometimes an indication of poor impulse control. It's an indication of someone who gets "swept away" easily, which is great for a ONS, but not great for a LTR.

FleetingWish · 2014-01-06T21:43:02+00:00

One of the... complications of feminism is that everyone has a different definition of what it means to them. So much so that the definition of feminism seems to be "anything you want it to be".

I highly regard the women who fought for our rights to vote, to hold office, to be paid a fair wage, to find shelter in times of abuse.

This is an extremely passive view on what feminism is. So much so, that I think the women here would agree with the points you have listed. However, I would argue, that this type of feminism has been completed.

Right to vote? Check!

Right to hold office? Check!

Right to be paid a fair wage? Check!

Right to find shelter in times of abuse? Check!

None of us are arguing that these things should be taken away, but we are arguing that these, and other women's rights, have been accomplished. We don't define ourselves to be feminists because we don't see the need in our society for more changes to the rights of women. It seems to me anyone who is still running around as a feminist must believe that there is some inequalities left over that haven't been fixed yet. So, I am puzzled why you define yourself to be a feminist, which is by definition an activist, if you are not advocating a new rules for equality among the sexes.

paperbats · 2014-01-07T00:01:19+00:00

I think this sub is more against what feminism has turned into. I'm very grateful that women have access to education, career, legal rights, etc, but now feminism seems to mean women should be able to get away with anything and it's okay to trample on men because we have such dainty feet. If I were a man, I would be extremely cautious about getting married because the courts highly favor women. This has narrowed the pool of decent marriage-minded men, and I blame feminism for that.

As far as partner count, a high number does show a lack of judgment. I don't think it dooms anyone to spinsterhood, but I don't think many would see it as a positive. I'm more on the fence about tattoos because I know that they're fairly common in my generation. I don't have any, but I know plenty of girls that do. I think super visible/lots of tattoos also demonstrate a lack of judgment, but one or two discreet ones don't seem like a big deal. All that being said, though, RPW is focused on how to be a good first mate to your captain. To me, it's realistic relationship advice without all of the girl power BS.

all those qualities I agree with being a RPW are the exact topics I can't bring up elsewhere

That's largely why I'm here, too :)

redpilldude · 2014-01-06T16:47:50+00:00

I don't think a high number of male partners essentially dooms a woman to spinsterhood.... I don't think that the way a woman looks should judge her inner character, especially if her partner embraces those qualities and loves her for them.

Well, the reality is that sluts and women who get tattoos don't make good long-term partners. Whether you want to agree with that or not is irrelevant. No one is trying to force you to be a RPW. So, if you don't agree with everything here, you don't have to stay here.

Also, there's a lot more to Feminism than right to vote, right to hold office, fair wage, etc. You ignored the more controversial second and third wave Feminism and some other beliefs, such as alimony, child support, no-fault divorce, etc.

specter504 · 2014-01-06T23:21:50+00:00

Wait... You don't think looks should judge inner character? A tattoo is a LIFELONG decision.

So we're not supposed to judge someone by the way they choose to present themselves to the world? Sight is a pretty important sense.

We'd all judge someone (m/f) for not bathing in such a way as to offend the nose. Why is the nose more valuable than the eyes?

Or ears for that matter - cursing is highly undesirable.

Anywho - anti femenist is not anti female. Separate the two and the headaches will stop.

SirNemesis · 2014-01-07T00:43:43+00:00

I'm not a RPW (I'm a man), so some of my red pill views are not the same as those at RPW. Nevertheless, here goes:

But I also find myself disagreeing with some other posts on this subreddit. For instance, I don't think a high number of male partners essentially dooms a woman to spinsterhood.

Actually, I'd argue that many women with a high number of male partners manage to snag hapless beta males who will overlook the promiscuous past. Also, women are known to lie about their past. For these reasons, I don't think a woman with a high number of partners is doomed to spinsterhood.

On the other hand, a woman who waits too long (read: into her late 30s) will find usually herself having to not only curb her hypergamy but also compromise heavily on quality in a husband; refusing to settle will doom her to spinsterhood.

I think tattoos, along with other body modifications, are individual choices - although I would never get a tattoo.

Definitely. It just happens that because of societal norms, tattoos are a rather reliable indicator of poor character, trashy background, sluttiness, etc. Men would do well heuristically to avoid tattooed women. By the same token, women should avoid putting on tattoos because it will result in the wrong kind of men being interested in them.

I don't think that the way a woman looks should judge her inner character, especially if her partner embraces those qualities and loves her for them.

Not sure what you mean here. If a woman looks obese for example, this can be an indicator of some issues regarding self-control, parental background, and delayed gratification, although sometimes it is simply an issue of thyroid problems (oddly enough though, obesity is nonexistant in places like rural India - thyroid problems notwithstanding).

If a woman dresses like a slut, it means she is trying to play up her looks and appear easy. She might not actually be promiscuous, but it is certainly indicative of SOME character issue that most of us men would not like.

On the other hand, if you are talking about natural looks, then certainly, whether a woman happens to be born ugly or pretty should not have any bearing on her inner character.

2014-01-07T21:46:18+00:00

I guess i consider myself both feminist and not.... NOW BEFORE I GET LIT ON FIRE.

I think women and men hold equal value. But in the end are different.

Outside of my relationship with my fiance, I hold certain 'feminist' views. I like the right to vote, an education, the right to birth control, right to choose abortion, the right to get paid the same as men for the same job, the right to have a career and or/to be a mom and so on.

However! Inside my relationship with my fiance I choose to give him my submission. We will marry in 2015 where I know I will be a good submissive wife. Give to him my support, do things for him without expectations of returns, make sweet sweet sexy love, I want to have kids and be a house wife.

And it was my CHOICE to do so.

I grew up in a culture that understood the secret of being the submissive woman in a relationship. (With a trustworthy, respectful, kind, hardworking man of course)

Most people around my age that have dated have done the whole going dutch thing, and sleeping around a bit. It's totally in their right to do so.

However, I personally do not like to play that game. These friends of mine have cycled through many relationships because they break down. The ladies are always willing to pay for things and do things without the man taking any charge. When they do these things they take away the power the man could have in that dynamic to take care of her.

I've been dating my Fiance for 6 years now and we're getting married next year. We have always chosen to keep things more traditional. He will pay for things, and I would give him the support and submission. Of course, being a feminist did jar me a bit when we started dating. It was more of a power struggle and when i gave him the chance to step up he was kind of immature at the time. However as we grew up and learnt with each other we've come to realize that keeping it Traditional has always saved us. There is never any awkward 'go get it yourself' moments and there is never any issue when it comes to who pays the bills. I know these examples are all very 'surface' and shallow but I didn't want to delve to deep.

I realized that submitting to someone I fully trust and consider to be a well rounded man is not wrong at all. I made that choice and it has been the best choice of my life. Our relationship has never been stronger.

Outside of my relationship I am hardworking, have a great job and am very much take charge.

CptDefB · 2014-01-07T23:37:37+00:00

So, by these comments, I can see you're coming over to the dark side... after all, there's nothing you can't share with "them", that you can't share here.

Welcome.

As promised.

pinkantlers · 2014-01-09T10:47:19+00:00

I was in your shoes not so long ago. For me it goes something like:

still a feminist in the 'general' sense - about issues in society etc. I have plenty of goals for myself and do very well academically and so on.
more RPW in my relationship. I prefer when my partner leads us because I love, like, and respect him enormously. I'm extremely grateful to him for thinking I'm worth it, and for making my life happier and easier. I like doing typically 'feminine' things like cooking, taking care of people, sewing etc. Making him happy makes me happy. And that's ok!
I feel secure, at peace and like I've found the right balance for me.

Basically what I'm getting at is that you don't have to subscribe 100% to any set of views. It's ok to find your own balance and make your own mind up. Stop worrying, keep reading, and you'll figure things out for yourself :)

2014-01-07T01:12:01+00:00

If it makes you feel better I'm in a similar situation. I actually make a living writing articles about feminism and the evolution of (my) culture. More than once, I've been invited to radio stations to speak as an authority on feminism.

So...yeah....awkward.

But I do believe in a lot of RPW (not all of them!) stuff but...enough. Luckily, a lot of it aligns with my culture so...yeah.

Title	Feminist stumbles into RPW. Agrees with a LOT of points. Confusion ensues. Please help!!
Author	leoplurodondon
Upvotes	10
Comments	52
Date	January 6, 2014 6:46 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1uitj0/feminist_stumbles_into_rpw_agrees_with_a_lot_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/feminist-stumbles-into-rpw-agrees-with-a-lot-of.84128 https://theredarchive.com/post/84128

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