Is it possible for women to "go their own way"?

ElfFey · 2016-05-03T17:39:17+00:00

WOMEN can absolutely go their own way. In fact, women going their own way is what started all the changes in our culture that led, many many years later, to movements like the Red Pill and MGTOW that grew up from the muck that women left behind them.

Throughout history, men and women have been entwined. In early history, male disposability was extreme, but roughly a quarter of women died in childbirth. Women were considered more valuable for their ability to birth children, and men were considered valuable for their ability to fight or work. The unfortunate result was one powerful man with a harem of women. (When feminists cry about "The Patriarchy!" I don't think they understand that this is what they are really talking about: one man who has many wives and sends other, less powerful men to die for him.)

With advances in medicine fewer women died in childbirth. This resulted in a more even ration of men to women, and now most men could get a wife. The last picture we have of this system was our culture in the 1950's. It was difficult to get divorced, and the women who were wives and mothers strongly depended on their husbands to be the breadwinner of the family.

In the 50s and in tradcon households, the husband is "the patriarch" of his family, a microcosm of what life looked like before the advances. Instead of having many wives, he could have one, who tries to be everything to her husband; instead of sending men to die for him, he sends himself to work. Some women worked (despite what feminists today will tell you!), but most wanted to secure a good man for themselves, being more fulfilled in the role of wife and mother.

In the 60's, there was a dramatic shift in our cultural values. Equality became the buzzword it still is to this day. This is the point women began to "go their own way"--straight into the arms of the government. Divorce became easier, to the point that in California, they even have no-fault divorce. Women, who could always work, were started to give special treatment in the workplace. "Sick days" and "affirmative action" ensured this.

Once birth control came into the picture, I think that is when women achieved total "go their own way" status. Women now have no reason to guard their sex as they have been doing for literally thousands of years. In the 50's and before, premarital sex was a serious risk. Women didn't want to take that risk, but of course they wanted sex and relationship--so they tried to be good women, and get married to an attractive, stable man. Now that abortion is also normalized, a woman has absolutely no responsibility for her sexual agency, either. She can go to work and make her own money, have all the sex she wants and never worry about raising children. Think about all the young single women you know--probably each one would have been married in the 50's, but today lives a life comparable to male bachelor of that time.

If she does choose to raise her kid, she can get government assistance from the "deadbeat dad" who left her with it. So Men's responsibility to their families has been taken away, too--your woman literally doesn't need your help to raise the kid. (I mean financially--the emotional turmoil is of course another issue. But even that idea, that children need a father for emotional reasons, is sometimes challenged in feminist circles.) Men started to realize this when women started divorcing them. Thus, they started their own movement--MGTOW.

So MGTOW is really just a reaction to many, many years of increasingly oppressive feminist doctrine. The feminist doctrine tells women to go their own way, ie the famous mantra, "You don't need no man!" And that is what women have been doing, in one way or another, since the 60s.

TL,DR: WGTOW is feminism, and we live in a feminist society, so (nearly) all women are WGTOW.

Mentathiel · 2016-05-03T10:31:35+00:00

According to axioms of RPW

The ultimate goal for a woman is a long lasting relationship with a man who she loves, respects, and is attracted to.

And according to this:

Women need men more than men need women. Men generally want sex and perhaps a family so they have a genetic lineage to leave their worldly goods and knowledge to once they die (so they may live on through their offspring) however women need men for their logical minds and stoic consistency, to make her emotionally stabilised "being the rock in her storm", and also need a partner just to "feel complete." Just look at single mother households and all the older women who are single, they are miserable. These women NEED a man to be happy, men DO NOT need women to be happy, men need SEX to be happy. A bachelor is a not an unhappy guy, a bachelorette is.

I disagree, tho. I believe women can be truly happy without men (provided that they want that in the first place, ofc), it's just more difficult.

But regardless, WGTOW is and odd concept. MGTOW isn't about denying commitment, it's about breaking free from shackles of living your life for women and organizing everything around impressing them and this is achieved by denying commitment. By analogy, WGTOW would then have to be about not living our lives for men, which we already aren't. We're living them for ourselves. We choose to associate with men for benefits they provide us, we don't romanticize them or value them more than they're worth. So we're already WGTOW. The girl in the video is just exploiting what every other woman actually exploits, she just isn't striving for commitment because she either doesn't want a family, thinks her SMV will still be high after this or thinks she could support a family by herself.

As for hookup culture, it's definitely not representative of nature of women as a whole. That's why it's widely shamed and takes a lot of social conditioning for us to accept it. It lowers the value of women sexually, so most women have a problem with it.

bowie747 · 2016-05-03T11:43:56+00:00

There's a lot of woman hate on r/MGTOW, but it think at its core MGTOW is more about not doing what society expects. In other words those guys are dead set on not marrying, and not being corporate slaves. To be free from constraint. It happens to include being free from women.

montereybay · 2016-05-03T17:38:16+00:00

Women can absolutely go their own way. There is nothing "man" specific about it. It's just about not taking the ordinary path that nature/society dictates.

ColdEiric · 2016-05-03T14:25:03+00:00

If guys notice that they're not attractive enough to be a first mate's captain, if they don't want to work hard on themselves to become captains in the eyes of first mates, if only their wallets are attractive to bankroll feminists they don't like, then MGTOW is their only option.

If they believe that they don't need to, shouldn't have to, or are not willing to do the work and spend the time to earn the promotion from 'worker' to 'captain', then MGTOW and bitterness is their only choice left. Considering how much time every boy and girl here have done in monk mode, some of the MGTOW might not even notice the subtle but crucial differences between a red-pilled captain and a blue worker. Or between a first mate and a feminist lamenting 'Where have all the good guys gone?'. I doubt I have to talk to any girl about how much more girls prefer the boys who aren't oblivious of what's going on.

FleetingWish · 2016-05-03T20:24:55+00:00

I think the issue is with looking at an exact analogous to MGTOW. You cannot simply write down what MGTOW would be for women, and expect it to make sense and align with what women's actual goals could conceivably be.

For instance, when you came up with being a nun. While that might be a literal interpretation of what a woman's MGTOW might look like, it doesn't make any sense, because most women wouldn't want that.

However, if you go back to what MGTOW's stated goals, what you find is that the basic premise is, "Live life for yourself". So what would WGTOW look like from that prospective? It would be using men for only your needs, not being self reliant on them, being willing to dismiss them the moment they no longer need them.

Basically, what you end up with is feminism. However the problem is that women need men to even have feminism. You need a society of firemen, police men, and army men to protect women so that they can live their lives "free of men".

TheLadyPainter · 2016-05-03T14:31:14+00:00

I think my own mother is one. My parents split up when I was a baby, and she was extremely hurt by the whole ordeal. I would even say irrationally so, but that doesn't matter to the story. After him, she tried to date one more time, it didn't work out - and since then, she's been flying solo. It's been at least 20 years since she's had a relationship. She just turned 60. Forty is still young enough to date - even 50+ can be if people want the same things from the relationship. It's not like she's unattractive, she's beautiful, and has a lot of friends. She just decided to live her life dedicated to her work (to provide for me) and her hobbies (to have some fun) instead of a man/husband.

I've contemplated living a life like that before. If I wanted to follow my dreams and become a famous artist, I would have no time for a family or a husband. It would be unfair to him/them to force them to carry my financial burdens until I "make it," which might not even happen. That path is selfish. But it's still one I feel called to. Sometimes I imagine just doing it. I think if (god forbid) something were to happen to my fiance now, I would. But I want a family, and I understand the responsibilities that come with one. And I love him more than I love the idea of being a WGTOW off the grid artist.

DennisReynoldsAMA · 2016-05-04T02:33:40+00:00

What do you think the 21st century is?

hereicum2trolltheday · 2016-05-04T19:14:39+00:00

MGTOW is about going against the grain of what society expects of you. So these days, WGTOW would be someone who is happy staying at home taking care of the kids and her husband (since society tells women that career and taking care of yourself is the pinnacle of womanhood)

crisprcas9 · 2016-05-13T07:09:31+00:00

For me a WGTOW is a woman who can pay her bills alone without her father's or boyfriends money.

redpillschool · 2016-05-03T13:30:07+00:00

I think if we look at MGTOW realistically, there's little chance they're going to end up happy either. I think both men and women want companionship. We entertain MGTOW because it is an option given the sexual market today. But I personally wouldn't do it because I don't think it'd make me happy. Likewise if a woman wanted to go her own way, she may decide to buck the trend- but I don't think there's sufficient reason to since the market is still quite good for women, and I don't think she'll be happy in the long run.

Atavisionary · 2016-05-04T05:14:27+00:00

I hate to interject on your quite excellent subreddit which is for women exclusively and it should be, but this post seems to beg my thoughts. Mainly because the question you ask is relevant to evolutionary psychology and I am not sure you will get the best answer from the other side of things when that is the main component of the question.

Males in almost all species are required as part of evolution to impress the female. There are exceptions, but humans aren't one so we needn't talk about them. If males are the ones who impress then the females are the ones to passively absorb the impressive stimuli. Women observe passively what the men around them do and select the best mates among those guys. MGTOW is a possibly quite maladaptiive behavioral response to completely unreasonable expectations of modern women. I will leave it to you to think about how that might be. But the point is men are expected to do certain things as a result of their inheritance and some of them have developed a cerebral ability to put it off. They have given up their responsibility from an evolutionary perspective. That is something. Intelligence isn't always a good thing, evolutionary speaking.

The point is however, that men are meant to be direct, aggressive, show-offy in order to attract wives. However you want to say it. Abdicating that responsibility is a big deal. Women were never expected to do anything, and they still aren't, which is possibly a proper way to do things. I will not criticize the old ways.

Women by nature are passive. By staying passive they are just doing what they have always done. There is nothing new or revolutionary about that. wgtow means nothing for that reason, it is merely and extension of the passiveness of women. The difference is that women never had that responsibility in the first place. you can't give up what you never had.

When they say there is no wgtow they are right. none of you have ever had the same expectations of your fellow man. when a man says he is giving up on society it means a lot more than when a woman says it. Men are the ones who build civilization.

[deleted] · 2016-05-03T15:58:43+00:00

I am in a sense, but it is because I'm going through a divorce (was married 12 years, together 16). It would be unhealthy to try to pursue any type of relationship at this point in time. I am taking the next year or so to work on my emotional, physical, and mental health, as well as learning about what went wrong, and forging and fostering positive friendships.

obVee · 2016-05-03T18:23:24+00:00

WGTOW perspective: I have the privilege of being with a MGTOW. We balance each other out. We may not have an idealistically romantic gushing relationship delusional people lose their entire life tracking down, but what we do have is support for each other. WGTOWs can't find happiness in men in the business of domesticating their lovers. Being so devoted in our own goals is difficult in itself and neither of us will settle for someone who tries to change or manipulate the other.

aanarchist · 2016-05-08T20:38:00+00:00

i don't know of a single wgtow(feminist) who is actually happy to be alive.

Title	Is it possible for women to "go their own way"?
Author	Botanical-Concepts
Upvotes	26
Comments	25
Date	May 3, 2016 9:06 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/4hmfh1/is_it_possible_for_women_to_go_their_own_way/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/is-it-possible-for-women-to-go-their-own-way.86159 https://theredarchive.com/post/86159

Comments