The American Bar Association: Men Accused of Rape Should Be Guilty Until Proven Innocent in Court

toughtchya · 2019-08-10T17:27:34+00:00

This is frightening. Title 9 for the country

Jock53 · 2019-08-10T20:39:46+00:00

Fuck yeah! Everything is the fault of men, especially straight, white ones, so have at it. Why even bother with a trial just jail the fuckers and move on. Wimmin are innocent of everything by default and would never lie about anything. Any male who disagrees is a misogynist fuckpig and should be gelded.

Lion_amongst_gods · 2019-08-10T18:09:44+00:00

Is it possible to sue the bar association? For attempting to ruin the foundation of the justice system?

Electroverted · 2019-08-10T20:59:24+00:00

This is what happens when you let SJWs into anything.

cosmickalamity · 2019-08-11T06:33:50+00:00

So now not only will their entire life be ruined by a mere accusation, but the majority of innocents will now end up in jail. Awesome. As a 13 year old I’m scared to grow up in this society ngl

ullnvrkillobamacare · 2019-08-11T03:53:48+00:00

Found the original text from the ABA. https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/house_of_delegates/resolutions/2019-midyear/2019-midyear-115.pdf

In my opinion, this proposal is a mixed bag. The positive side of it is that it encourages legislatures to redefine rape as "sexual contact" rather than only penetration. That change would give men greater protection than the current, flawed definitions.

However, the concerns in the articles are valid. The claim that the accused would have to have documented proof of consent is overstated but somewhat true. It would force the judge to make a statement that lends credibility to the accusation, which would bias the jury. Without proof of consent, I think a lot of people could be falsely convicted.

user9460 · 2019-08-10T23:07:25+00:00

What an utterly misleading headline. That's not what its saying at all. All this says is that rape shouldn't require you to fight or say stop (whether you agree with that is a separate issue). The headline is straight up lying or misinterpreting that the burden of proof is shifting to the accused proving their innocence.

Jackson2615 · 2019-08-11T05:06:00+00:00

This goes against the basic principle of law in western democracies. Perhaps in addition the ABA could advocate for,

Lawyers Accused of misconduct Should Be Guilty Until Proven Innocent in Court

MalusMalorum · 2019-08-11T09:03:02+00:00

To be fair, it says "words or action". But it runs into either of two problems. A) Both parties give different accounts of what words or action were present, thus we usually just end up with the same situation and nothing is gained. B) We end up putting the word of the alleged victim over that of the defendant and then we really do have guilty until proven innocent because then, the weighing of the evidence STARTS in favor of guilt.

It just honestly is per definition a pretty mess if the only difference between a normal sexual encounter and a case of rape lies within the participants mind. We cannot play mind readers in court!

genkernels · 2019-08-11T14:46:46+00:00

Wow, that's an incredible misinterpretation of the (still somewhat troubling) resolution from the APA.

TheBaredBodkin · 2019-08-11T22:23:00+00:00

Just avoid relationships with women. There is nothing else to say or discuss.

-Dragonhawk1029- · 2019-08-11T03:01:44+00:00

How unfortunate. That they now need to clarify this RIGHT that everybody has. Sad.

aussietoads · 2019-08-11T04:03:17+00:00

Seems like a good time to accuse all the lawyers involved in the drafting of this BS, of rape. After all, they are raping the whole notion of justice.

Demonspawn · 2019-08-11T06:30:44+00:00

Let's apply this to anything else.

For example, let's say you need 5 dollars. So you ask your co-worker Joe for 5 dollars. Joe fishes out 5 bucks and hands it to you.

You have now stolen from Joe because Joe never said yes.

All this because, apparently, women are too infantile to learn how to say "no".

jp_mra · 2019-08-11T15:57:59+00:00

Because its misogyny to expect the woman to be strong enough to utter the simple word 'no' or resist in any manner.

Egalitarianwhistle · 2019-08-12T01:35:25+00:00

The discussion is so gendered. I they want to define it this way the best response is for men to accuse.every woman who has ex with them but doesnt ask for consent of rape.

Rape accusations should be a two edged sword. They are not because the stigma is gendered. Female genitals are sacred. Male genitals are not.

2019-08-12T04:09:25+00:00

Yeah that is fucked up and no they should not do that wtf

ALTSuzzxingcoh · 2019-08-11T01:32:54+00:00

It doesn't, OP.

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/directories/policy/annual-2019/114-annual-2019.pdf

RESOLVED, That the American Bar Association urges legislatures and courts to define consent in sexual assault cases as the assent of a person who is competent to give consent to engage in a specific act of sexual penetration, oral sex, or sexual contact, to provide that consent is expressed by words or action in the context of all the circumstances, and to reject any requirement that sexual assault victims have a legal burden of verbal or physical resistance.

dexfagcasul · 2019-08-11T02:38:02+00:00

Mods should lock this, such an intentionally misleading title

vermin311 · 2019-08-11T03:12:35+00:00

There's alot to unpack here. So they're deciding that the "victim" in the situation no longer has to provide evidence that she resisted or said no, because an absense of those things doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

This may not sound bad at first. HOWEVER, they are essentially stating that if the victim give any signals that it wasn't consentual or wasn't under coercion in any way, she still could could have been raped. That does, in a way, push the blame onto men, because in that situation it completely comes down to the nonverbal cues. And men simply cannot read the minds of what women are thinking.

In this scenario, if sex is obviously consensual due to nonverbal communication, and the women claims it is rape, then that means the man is automatically guilty. As just because she didn't give ANY signal whatsoever as to tell the man's advances to stop, doesn't mean it wasn't rape. So now the only way sex is consensual is if a man is able to illicit a "yes" from the other person. But that is not as easy as it sounds because asking "wanna have sex?" often sounds in itself quite creepy and offputing. So how is "consent" in these terms ever supposed to happen?

I am going to have to disagree with the ABA's decision because if there's miscommunication between two partners, then it goes both ways. A women needs to make it very clear in at least some way/shape/form that she doesn't want sex to happen. It's not much to ask that be done on their part. After that point, it would be rape. Otherwise, you can't entirely rely on body language because it's too complicated: you may be sending the wrong signals and not even realize it. But it's not fair to the man to have to determine whether your body language was legitimate or not.

Akesgeroth · 2019-08-11T01:33:26+00:00

If legislatures adopt this standard, imagine making out with your girlfriend, going to the bedroom, having sex and then the next day, being accused of rape. Then when you protest that she didn’t struggle or say “no” or do anything to let you know the sex is unwanted, you’re told THAT DOESN’T MATTER.

That does not remove the burden of proof. All it does is say that consent needs to be explicitly given. Meaning "She didn't say no" isn't an argument anymore, which it shouldn't be.

Title	The American Bar Association: Men Accused of Rape Should Be Guilty Until Proven Innocent in Court
Author	cevits76
Upvotes	222
Comments	49
Date	August 10, 2019 5:25 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cokwaj/the_american_bar_association_men_accused_of_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-american-bar-association-men-accused-of-rape.871450 https://theredarchive.com/post/871450

Comments