This happened on Wednesday (May 10) but I suspect the repercussions are just starting. Sorry it's so long; everything is still fresh in my mind. (Originally posted in /r/tifu but it technically doesn't qualify, so here we are.)
My (10 year old) daughter participates in the local 4H Club. One of the voluntary activities is a presentation competition of sorts. Kids in the club can create a presentation based on whatever they want, then they have to deliver it to the local club. The best of those presentations then have the option of competing on a county level, and then (for the older kids — not my daughter) on a state level. My daughter did her presentation on ferrets as pets and got to compete in the county competition where she did very well (top score for her age bracket — 103 points).
One of the other girls at the county competition, a 16 year old high school student from a different 4H Club chapter ("Jane"), did her presentation on women's soccer. A pretty sizable portion of her presentation, at least half, focused on the wage disparity between male and female soccer players, and Jane was extremely passionate and visibly pissed off about this disparity. She got through it and completed her presentation but she kept throwing in snide comments about the wage gap whenever she could. The presentation itself was pretty bland, a simple PowerPoint presentation like you'd find in any of a million meetings on any given day, she read nearly all of her material from a stack of index cards she held in her hand, and almost everything she said? was a question? which was, like, really annoying?.
At the end — like all the kids did — she opened up the floor for Q&A. By this time I was already on my phone doing some strategic Googling, and I soon had my information.
One of the adults in the audience asked her what she thought was the main reason for the wage gap. Without missing a beat and with full confidence Jane announced that it was clearly just a matter of gender bias, that all the data indicated as such, and there was no other reason for it. The governing body of women's soccer is predominantly male and that's why women weren't paid as much.
Then I raised my hand. When she called on me I said, "I want to ask two questions, the first one hypothetical, and the second one about your presentation. Home Depot is one of the biggest hardware and home improvement stores in the country. Last year they earned nearly $2 billion dollars in profit, after all expenses and salaries were paid. An entry level cashier position starts at $9.50/hour. That's all a matter of public record. Hypothetically, let's say I open my own hardware and home improvement store and last year my store earned $50k in profit. Would you expect me to pay my cashiers $9.50/hour or would you expect me to pay less, given that I'm not making as much money as Home Depot?"
A few people in the audience clearly knew where I was going with this but Jane did not. Her response (paraphrased) was that she would expect me to pay less, at least minimum wage but hopefully more.
I continued, using my phone for reference (EDIT: source). "In 2014, sponsor revenue for women's soccer in the United States was $17 million. In the same year, sponsor revenue for men's soccer in the United States was $529 million. You have no problem with my small hardware shop, with its substantially lower income, paying its cashiers less than a large conglomerate would. So why do you expect women's salaries and bonuses in women's soccer to be equal to that of men's, when men's soccer is making over $500 million more than women's soccer?"
She was clearly very rattled by this and I realized she was flushed and sweating. She stammered out a half-hearted "uhhh, I just don't think it's fair that women are making less" and referred back to her slides without actually answering the question. A couple of women in the audience (including one whom I later found out was her mother) were shooting daggers at me, and a bunch of the men were suddenly extremely focused on their cell phones and watches. I sat down with a simple, "Okay, well, that's something to think about." Jane asked if there were any other questions; there weren't, so she collected her things and stepped away.
Everyone behaved normally for the rest of the evening and I honestly thought the matter had been resolved, or at least dropped.
Wednesday night I received an email from my daughter's 4H Club leader/director ("Claire"). Short version, Jane's mother is furious at me for "making her daughter look like a fool" at the competition and she's blaming me for the fact that Jane didn't qualify for the state competition. (There were many kids whose presentations were a lot more interesting and dynamic than Jane's so I don't buy this.) Jane's mother (Betsie — yeah, that's her real name) demanded my name, address, and phone number, which Claire refused to give her. Claire asked me to call her in the morning (yesterday) to talk about it.
So yesterday morning I got on the phone and we had about a 20 minute chat. The end result was, no, I would not apologize because I had done nothing wrong, and there's nothing I can do if Jane was troubled by the factual information given to her. I was asked for forward copies of my sources to Claire, which I did, and that was that. Or, so I thought.
Yesterday (Thursday) evening my daughter came home very upset. Apparently another girl in her school (same grade, different class) had been picking on her at lunch and recess, or more accurately had been picking on me, telling my daughter that I'm mean, and I'm stupid, and it's my fault that Jane didn't win. Turns out this other girl is Jane's younger sister and after Wednesday night's "festivities" the whole family seemingly sat around telling Jane how right she was and how wrong I was because I'm a white male. The little sister ate all this up and threw it up in my daughter's face.
It took me about a half hour to work all this out with my daughter but in the end she had a pretty good grasp on it, so she went outside to play.
This morning (Friday), less than a minute after my daughter got on the school bus, a strange car pulled up in front of my house. You guessed it — Betsie had found me. And as much as I hate to say this, Betsie is the epitome of the feminist stereotype. She was already yelling at me before she had even finished getting out of her car (a Subaru, I noted with some internal amusement). I allowed her to stand on the end of my driveway (yelling at me) for about 15 seconds before I raised my hand, got her to pause for a moment, and asked her if she'd like a drink. From her reaction over that you'd think I asked her if she'd like a man's cock in her ass, so I just stood there and watched her rant with a bemused expression on my face for a few more seconds. Then I turned around and walked towards my front door which prompted a bunch of "Don't walk away from me!" and "I'm talking to you!" things. I told her I'd be right back, that I just wanted to get my phone so I could record all of this. But by the time I got back outside with my phone she had already gotten back into her car and drove away.
On principle I called the police and filed a report. I also pointed my field camera and a Nest camera at my house and driveway, just in case, and went to the school and told them about the whole incident including Jane's sister and my daughter, and Betsie at my house. I've been home for about an hour now and I've been getting a bunch of crank calls from the same number — a "BLOCKED" number according to Caller ID — every few minutes. Fortunately through Verizon I was able to block any BLOCKED numbers from getting through, but now I have to tell the police this is happening too.
So how's everyone else's weekends shaping up?
TL;DR: Sixteen year old feminist goes on about wage disparity in soccer, I point out a gaping flaw in her argument, daughter gets harassed at school, and mother gets super pissed off at me and starts to stalk/harass me.
UPDATE 5-12-17: I told the police about the crank calls and provided them with a timestamped list of when the calls were received. At around 2pm today a couple of uniformed officers paid a visit to Betsie and "strongly encouraged" her to cease and desist. Meanwhile, the school sent a letter home with Jane's sister as an official reprimand against bullying my daughter. I called Claire and let her know about the rest of it — the police, the crank calls, the thing with my daughter, etc — and she mentioned that it "might not" be the first time they've gotten reports about Betsie and her children and she's going to escalate this within 4H, whatever that may mean. I'm keeping the cameras turned on at my house but so far things are quiet.
UPDATE 5-15-17: Nothing new to report. No new crank calls have appeared and nobody's come knocking at my door. I told my daughter that Jane's sister was sent home with a note, and if anyone approaches her (my daughter) at school and starts giving her crap about any of this, she's to immediately go to a teacher and report it.
[–]LawnCareJesus 178 points179 points180 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]stationhollow points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I dont think it could have made her any more butt hurt than she already was.
[–]R3DSH0X 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]FireHole points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
It's amazing to me how childish some of these women can be. You presented facts and an obviously well-supported argument and they respond with emotional outbursts, threats against your child, and downright harassment when you prove your point. Why do they take everything so personally? When you proved the poor dear wrong in her assertions of sex discrimination in soccer with valid points, she and her family took it personally. I can't understand why they do that.
[–]LawnCareJesus 51 points52 points53 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]FireHole points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I see that, sure. I wondered why the childishness and the necessity to take being proven wrong personally. Was it just "Nobody can say my precious daughter is wrong!" outrage, or was it something deeper, where many women view disagreement and dissent as disloyalty and even as an insult. I've had women bosses and if people disagreed with them even about something small they hold a grudge--it's like they all have to be 'friends' and any disagreement is seen as betrayal. Whereas men seem to be able to have arguments and prove one another wrong all the time but most of us don't take it personally. Does that make sense?
[–]LawnCareJesus 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]stationhollow 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Palpetinus 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Drake_Night 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zardozicon points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I can imagine the pain of seeing your child's illusions smashed. It's like she was giving a presentation on how awesome Santa Claus is and OP crushed her dream while she was on stage in front of everyone. Of course, her parents should have made sure her presentation was factual and none of that would have happened.
[–]SoYa1337 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Boardmedic 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Boardmedic 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey points [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link
When I was in 4H the worst thing that I had to worry about is Sharine trying to lick my ass crack when I bent over for something. (sharine was my show calf.)
[–]bubonis[S] 35 points36 points37 points (25 children) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey 4 points5 points6 points (22 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 7 points8 points9 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey 5 points6 points7 points (19 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Misterspyder2 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey 2 points3 points4 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Misterspyder2 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]R3DSH0X 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 12 points13 points14 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Misterspyder2 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]WithATrebuchet 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WithATrebuchet -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]WithATrebuchet 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]WithATrebuchet 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]WithATrebuchet 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dmax6point6 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]similarsituation123 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BrandonOR 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]micahamey 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]creideki points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
I love that it's about women soccer players deserving more money. Was it last year that the Women's World Cup winners were beaten in a flawless victory by the Australian Boys age 10-14 team?
Beat the men's/real World Cup winners with a bunch of middle-schoolers and then we'll discuss wage re-negotiation. LOL
[–]The_Fool-On-The_Hill 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]reddit_debate_judge 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]WowIJake 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]scrufdawg 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BTC_Brin 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mechathatcher 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Toxicspeed03 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BukM1 17 points18 points19 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 15 points16 points17 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]R3DSH0X 7 points8 points9 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]booyah2 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
You are playing this well but you never know when this broad might go crazy. Parents plant drugs in PTA Mother's car
[–]human_machine 13 points14 points15 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]burnt_wick 1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Humulus_Lupulus1992 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]burnt_wick 3 points4 points5 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Humulus_Lupulus1992 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]drunk_kronk 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]burnt_wick 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Arael15th 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]human_machine 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Arael15th 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ElJefe10 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MagicTampon 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]maschine01 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Spinothalamic 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaytonaDemon 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]tmoneSpends too much time with ass cheeks spread apart 12 points13 points14 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaytonaDemon points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
That's a very nicely written diatribe — thank you! — but it has fuck-all today with the article I posted. Try engaging with the arguments presented? http://nobodysbusiness.typepad.com/nobodys_business/2007/07/the-fake-femini.html
[–]tmoneSpends too much time with ass cheeks spread apart 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mrwhibbley 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mjd126008 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I remember when I was in high school some girls gave a presentation about the wage gap and sexism. I already knew their "facts" were BS and at the end of the presentation I pretty much proved it by the questions I asked and how flustered they got
Of course I was called an asshole and sexist and dumb shit like that for questioning it. There's no sense in arguing with people like that.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheLiqourCaptain 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BadgerFodder 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mgush5 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Please post an update when it's resolved. I want to see how this plays out. Document everything!
[–]bubonis[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]samsc2Cooking up a batch of MRE denials 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]iiMSouperman 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Good for them!
[–]bubonis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Relevant in what way? I already said your argument should be based on proportion, not just total earnings. This doesn't help that argument either way.
[–]bubonis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I did not. If you say they are proportionally getting paid more, than it is what it is. But this "relevant" article didn't help that argument,
[–]bubonis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BTC_Brin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MattDi[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DoominaBottle 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]YOGHURTstick 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JohnnyKay9 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]_Bereavement 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]_Bereavement 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kenzato 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]land_dweller 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]land_dweller 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]bubonis[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaytonaDemon points [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, what does the Subaru have to do with anything?
[–]bubonis[S] 3 points4 points5 points (27 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster 0 points1 point2 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[–]BTC_Brin 0 points1 point2 points (25 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster points [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link
Hmm I know plenty of lesbians. They don't own a single Subaru between them. How many lesbian Subaru owners do you know?
[–]BTC_Brin 0 points1 point2 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster points [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link
You're not using "logical fallacy" right...
Out of all the lesbians you know, how many of them drive a Subaru?
[–]BTC_Brin 0 points1 point2 points (21 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonhiphipster points [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link
You should probably correct that in your life. Pretty surprising that you're not friends with a single lesbian.
[–]Knowbody42 1 point2 points3 points (18 children) | Copy Link
[–]BTC_Brin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link