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If a man deliberately hit a woman with a car and pinned her against a fence he'd be charged with attempted murder

rbrockway

December 27, 2016
702 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/12/28/01/40/woman-charged-after-man-pinned-by-car
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Post Information
Title If a man deliberately hit a woman with a car and pinned her against a fence he'd be charged with attempted murder
Author

rbrockway

Upvotes 702
Comments 67
Date December 27, 2016 4:19 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5kkh98/if_a_man_deliberately_hit_a_woman_with_a_car_and/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/if-a-man-deliberately-hit-a-woman-with-a-car-and.935071
https://theredarchive.com/post/935071
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Comments

[–]girraween 88 points89 points90 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I was reading some of the comments in a Facebook post about this. God damn the amount of people who were saying "she might have been abused by him" was too high.

Although I was happy to see a lot of people having a go at them.

[–]Apellosine 48 points49 points50 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even though the article literally says that she was contravening a domestic violence order. The mental gymnastics you have to do to make that leap are immense.

[–]Moral_Gutpunch 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So what if she was abused? You LEAVE, you don't attempt vehicular manslaughter.

[–]rsnell 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

...was too damn high!

[–]Mallago 122 points123 points124 points 9 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

Female privilege. And to think feminists want even more lenient treatment of women within the justice system.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 9 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

I have to be missing something. I read the article, and neither your comment nor the title make any sense.

The woman is being charged. What is the problem?

[–]santajf1 47 points48 points49 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

He's saying that the charges aren't the same. She was charged with intent of bodily harm and grievous damage. It's serious, but it's not attempted murder serious.

[–]nickmista 24 points25 points26 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I think people here are assuming the Australian judicial system is the same as the American one when especially in the case of murder and manslaughter there are significant differences. To the best of my knowledge attempted murder requires substantial proof of intent to kill. Assault with intent to cause grievous bodily harm is a very serious charge with a maximum sentence of 25 years prison. There are many instances of cases where people have been wounded so seriously they were comatose or otherwise permanently maimed and the attacker was charged with assault with intent to cause grievous bodily harm rather than attempted murder. Many of the people charged with this are found not guilty because intent to cause grievous bodily harm also needs to be proved and sometimes punching someone in the head causing them to hit the pavement with ongoing brain damage is not enough. It's no light sentence.

Some examples of injuries that the court has found to constitute GBH include:

Brain damage

Jaw and skull fractures

Infecting someone with HIV

Severe lacerations that require a large number of stitches, nerve reconstruction and/or surgery

Causing a mother to lose her foetus;

Facial fractures and laceration of the right ear requiring steel plates and screws, causing ongoing headaches and continuing treatment.

Uncomplicated fractures of the arms or legs

Facial fractures which require minor surgery with relatively short recover times

Cuts and lacerations.

There was another excerpt on a site I tried to grab but couldn't (too difficult on mobile) which basically echoed that in order for someone to be charged with attempted murder the intent to kill needs to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. There is an obvious intent to cause grievous bodily harm so she'll almost certainly be convicted under this charge (IANAL but people can be punched and not be seriously wounded yet a court would expect a reasonable person to believe ramming someone with a car and pinning them against a wall would inflict grievous bodily harm.), attempted murder is less likely.

[–]rymden_viking 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually wish the US was a lot more lenient with that stuff. If two people get in a consensual bar fight they should get charged with property damage, or disorderly conduct at most. But no, it's assault charges all around.

[–]Mobmanmoose 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

The charge is a pretty serious one without being able to prove an intention to kill. There's no issue here really and I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar charge sheet for a man.

[–]Mmacqdltb 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

So what's the problem then?

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Any time people shift into a defense of feminism, or 'how dare anyone ever criticize feminists' spiel, I downvote and ignore anything they say.

I'm sick of this insane notion of folks like you that feminists are some sort of protected priestly class, and that-while every other movement or ieeology is fair game-they are not.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Siganid 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

No, putting blame on a guilty group is necessary.

[–]Mmacqdltb 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

So what are they guilty of then?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What a hypocritical load of bullshit. You realize that you're just blindly standing up for MRs with this, right? No? No, of course not.

[–]Mallago 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Title suggests that the charge would more a more severe charge with the genders reversed, which I believe is true.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Then a similar crime in the same city/county/state by a man with a harsher sentence should be provided. Otherwise you guys are just creating outrage, which is the literal last thing this place/movement needs if we want to be taken seriously.

[–]Heasummn 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I know I'll get downvoted to oblivion, like you are, but that's exactly what this is. I'm a Men's Rights supporter, but this is just making outrage off of no facts.

Now, if you were to show me a similar case in which a man pins a women, and he get's charged with heftier crimes, I can see the argument. Otherwise these are just baseless predictions.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

How am I trolling? Because I'm asking questions? Because I'm approaching this objectively?

I feel as strongly about the double standards of our society as anyone else, but I also believe in going about it with truth, clarity, and civility. I see very little of that in this thread.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not posing as anything. I'm just calling you guys out for acting exactly the same as the people we consider to be the opposition. But go ahead and keep slamming on those downvote buttons. That's the kind of enlightenment that's gonna change the world!

[–]DrewFlan 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Except his points are completely legitimate. Outrage over this is counterproductive.

[–]Pointless_arguments 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a really dangerous mentality that promotes circlejerking and "safe space" mindset.

Even if the person is presenting invalid concerns, it can't "work against" the group to discuss them unless the goals of the group are weakened by open discussion. If you have confidence in your position, nothing can weaken it except LACK of discussion.

I'm not an MRA and I don't agree with a lot of your message but I still post here from time to time because it's an open uncensored forum. That at least, I respect you guys for. You start accusing people of being concern trolls with no evidence to back up the statement and that's no better than a witch hunt.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Would a study supporting the fact that men receive harsher punishments for similar crimes than women convince you?

[–]Praeger 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. But the study would have to be in Australia, and showing the NSW laws where I believe this occurred.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not here denying the pussy pass. I'm just saying that this whole thread appears to be making something out of nothing.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If she is being charged with, "charged with wounding person with intent to cause grievous bodily harm." Then that means they recognize the intent to do injury. Does this mean the judge will be pressing for attempted murder, or is it only assault? At least a bystander took the keys out of the car - they did something, maybe because this was an older male. What does stand out is how the article downplays that this was domestic assault, a single line at the bottom mentions a restraining order but they don't bother going into details. It'll be more significant to see how this plays out in court, and what she gets sentenced with.

[–]shitezlozen 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

actually that sentence at the bottom of the article are the charges and they seem to be in order of severity.

news.com.au is shite at the best of times but I don't see anything wrong with this article.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

gonna delete this one too, or have you not been downvoted hard enough?

[–]ThirdTurnip 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Attempted murder means that you tried to murder someone but were prevented from doing so.

While it's possible she intended to hit him with the car again and kill him, in the absence of evidence to that effect, the police / prosecutor / courts can't and shouldn't just make that assumption.

Meanwhile mainstream media is reporting a brutal example of female-on-male domestic violence which defies the anti-male stereotype. That would have been a much better title.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"Intent to cause grievous bodily harm" shows they think she did it intentionally, and the fact that they used the term grievous coupled with the use of the car pretty clearly implies murderous intent, at least to me.

[–]ThirdTurnip 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Intent to cause bodily harm does not equal intent to kill.

If you're confused about the difference I can only suggest that you consult a dictionary.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right, "intent to cause grievous harm" is different from "attempted murder." But the act of intentionally hitting someone with a car is closer to the latter than the former.

Of course, obligatory 'I'm not a cop/lawyer/etc.,' but it'd be hard to argue she only meant to hurt him.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you try to run a police officer over with a car I'm pretty sure they will pull out their gun and kill you, and rightly so If they don't prosecute this as anything but attempted murder then something is very wrong.

[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]UrethraX 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We can still get guns, we just don't give them away with every box of cereal because logic > muh constitution

[–]Lonelythrowawaysnug 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

logic /> muh constitution

people who use the constitution as a bad word disgust me.

[–]ramot1 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

On Tuesday the woman was charged with wounding person with intent to cause grievous bodily harm, contravening a domestic violence order and malicious damage. Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/12/28/01/40/woman-charged-after-man-pinned-by-car#BvVjPC2qJxXbEb5H.99

But if you think that in America more serious charges against a man would have been brought, you're probably correct!

[–]satisfyinghump 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm surprised the man that intervened and took the keys out, wasn't charges with rape or assault!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Comment section is brutal, but I still lol'd

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Reddit1990 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But it could have easily killed him; she had to have been aware that running into an older person with a car and then beating them could kill them, right?

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Reddit1990 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Often it's wiser to go for the less serious crime that is easier to prove. There is also the fact that we're reading about what happened from a single news source, and news source often do a mediocre at best, misrepresent at worse, job of conveying all the facts.

Fair points.

[–]candidly1 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that "intent to inflict GBH" is a pretty big deal, tho...

[–]wisty 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, Australia has a very limp-wristed justice system. Violent crimes just don't get the hard sentences they often deserve. It might be bias, but generally murder / attempted murder has a very high bar (and sometimes the sentence isn't that much higher than GBH).

[–]PerniciousOne 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Golden pussy pass in action.

Wonder if she will have to spend any time in jail for it? He had to be airlifted to the hospital which means it was pretty serious.

[–]ChaosOpen -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She'll probably get off with a warning.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wtf is wrong with Ausrralia?

[–]rbrockway[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a reason we decided to have ICMI 17 here next year.

[–]Richo262 -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He'll probably have to pay the repair bill on the car.

[+]maniclurker -27 points-26 points-25 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Provide evidence for your assertion.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

Seriously. The woman was charged. What's the issue here?

Edit: I'm agreeing with the above comment. The disparity between comments says more about this community than I'd like to admit.

[+]maniclurker -18 points-17 points-16 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Sweaty echo chamber.

[–]contractor808 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, an echo chamber with dissenting opinions, go figure.

oafsalot: They charge with what they could convict. Looks like she is in for several years behind bars. Not a loss by any means.

.

ThirdTurnip: Attempted murder means that you tried to murder someone but were prevented from doing so.

While it's possible she intended to hit him with the car again and kill him, in the absence of evidence to that effect, the police / prosecutor / courts can't and shouldn't just make that assumption.

Meanwhile mainstream media is reporting a brutal example of female-on-male domestic violence which defies the anti-male stereotype. That would have been a much better title.

[+]maniclurker -9 points-8 points-7 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I'm not certain of your point.

[–]Siganid 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

His point is you are badly mistaken.

[–]maniclurker 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Ah, had to verify.

Sorry he and you feel I'm mistaken. I'm not. But you can feel that way.

As the saying goes around the echo chamber "feels before reals".

[–]Siganid 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Since the saying around here is "prove your statement" now let's see your proof.

[–]maniclurker 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

My proof is the comment section. Enjoy!

[–]Siganid -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So you provided proof that you are wrong, but feel right anyway because you value your feelings over the proof you provided? No wonder you don't fit in here.

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