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"In 2015, there were 3,027 people who died by suicide — 2,292 were men and 735 were women." Guess which of those two numbers the ABC finds more worrying. Come on! Guess, i dare ya!

ThePigmanAgain

September 28, 2016
177 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-28/australian-suicide-deaths-more-than-3000-rising-women-teens-abs/7885970
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Title "In 2015, there were 3,027 people who died by suicide — 2,292 were men and 735 were women." Guess which of those two numbers the ABC finds more worrying. Come on! Guess, i dare ya!
Author

ThePigmanAgain

Upvotes 177
Comments 38
Date September 28, 2016 10:56 AM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/54vrjw/in_2015_there_were_3027_people_who_died_by/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/in-2015-there-were-3027-people-who-died-by-suicide.940853
https://theredarchive.com/post/940853
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Comments

[–]Swiggy 23 points24 points25 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Reminds me of the "We have to stop locking up so many women in prison." alarms.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Yup... 5000000 men killed themselves in 2014 and 4999999 in 2015. 3 women killed themselves in 2014 and 4 in 2015. We have to address the female suicide crisis, which has seen a 33% rise in a single year!!!!!!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Why not just use the actual numbers? Surely they support your point better than obviously false ones that are crafted to make a point?

[–]Munchausen-By-Proxy 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The idea is to clearly illustrate the principle, the understanding of which can then be applied to the real numbers. As you said, the numbers he's giving are obviously false so there is no dishonesty here, just a standard educational technique which anyone who made it through high school should be familiar with.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's illustrating the cheap political statistics-related party trick in the most obvious manner. Using the actual numbers is pointless anyway since it's trend/change over time that needs to be taken into account, not year on year variances with small sample sizes.

The real issue is the difference in total numbers, not cherry picking stats to suit. It's possible to take any set of numbers, take pretty much any position and pick data points to match your argument.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's possible to take any set of numbers, take pretty much any position and pick data points to match your argument.

In other words, the literal action you took.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, because there wasn't an existing set of numbers and so obviously there were no data points to pick. You're not very good at being pedantic.

[–]Munchausen-By-Proxy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The idea is to clearly illustrate the principle, the understanding of which can then be applied to the real numbers. As you said, they numbers he's giving are obviously false so there is no dishonesty here, just a standard educational technique.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

1 IN 4, WAKE UP SHEEPLE!121ONE

[–]JebberJabber -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Here are the numbers, from the article:

In 2015, 3,027 people died by suicide — 2,292 men and 735 women.

Deaths from self-harm are three times more common for males than females, however the number of women who end their lives is going up.

Chief executive of Suicide Prevention Australia, Sue Murray, told ABC News this trend was concerning.

"We have seen a 26 per cent increase in the suicide rates among women and the numbers of suicides among women (rise) over the last five year period," Ms Murray said.

In 2015, 56 girls between the ages of 15 and 19 ended their lives, up from 38 in 2014.

"The numbers are not large but the fact it is a 45 per cent increase in a one-year period certainly needs good investigation,"
.
.
OP's headline badly misrepresents the article. Some subs have an explicit rule about that. The news is that the suicide rate for young women is rising and we don't know why. This is not a random fluctuation, it happened in Australia last year too.

[–]marauderp 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The news is that the suicide rate for young women is rising and we don't know why. This is not a random fluctuation, it happened in Australia last year too.

One data point is not a trend. You can't say they are "rising", you can only say that they were higher in 2015 than 2014.

[–]splodgenessabounds 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The news is that the suicide rate for young women is rising and we don't know why.

This is hardly good news, and I have NFI why the downvotes. But hey, this is Reddit...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I've gone back to 2012 with the data, 2015 is the only year where the suicide rate for 15-19 year old females has increased, in 2012-13 and 2013-14 they fell. So the increase from 2014-15 is the very definition of a random blip.

As is the increase in male 15-19 suicide rate between 2012-13 of 54%. That's a 54% increase in a one-year period, 20% greater than the cherry picked data point here that apparently warrants "good investigation."

The 45% they talk about is 18 young women... in a population of around 25 million. To extrapolate anything from that is ridiculous in the truest sense of the word.

This is just feminists hijacking suicide as a female issue even though it's clearly something that affects men far more. Watch the funding roll in to solve the female crisis any time now.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/3303.0~2015~Main%20Features~Intentional%20self-harm:%20key%20characteristics~8

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/3303.0~2014~Main%20Features~Intentional%20self-harm%20by%20Age~10051

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/3303.0~2013~Main%20Features~Suicide%20by%20Age~10010

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/3303.0~2012~Main%20Features~Age~10010

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for that, I agree the latest figure is an insignificant blip. What I remembered as the the same increase in the previous year's data must been just a preliminary version of this data.

In the US the CDC has noted a substantial increase in female suicide in the last few years. Females have greatly increased their use of hanging, a much more lethal method than their usual OD. The other thing that's been happening is that opiod painkillers have become more popular / available.

The US has also seen a tripling in suicides in the 10-14 year old girls, though the absolute number is so low that could be natural variation. The CDC suspects a drop in the age of puberty in girls might be involved as a long term trend, since puberty causes both pubes and suicide.
That figure of questionable significance got the headlines, but the huge increase was actually in people aged 45-65, particularly women.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db241.htm

[–]garglemesh42 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]TimeTravel101 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Earlier, men used be the knights to women. Now it's the state. The state is the ultimate mangina. Women don't need men anymore.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Did anyone see the raw numbers, i.e. not percentages. The problem with percentages with numbers that are this far apart is that you can get into a 'base rate fallacy' problem.

Let say that 1000 people kill themselves each year.

900 are men. 100 are women.

This year an extra 100 men kill themselves and an extra 100 women do.

So it would look like women have increased hugely (and I guess to some extent they did) because after all men only went up by 10% and women went up by 100%.

The base rate fallacy comes into place because the starting numbers are so different and the real problem is that men outnumber women by a huge amount to start with so any increase between the two will look worse for women.

[–]robochicken11 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fucking disgusting.

[–]oshmkufa2010 21 points22 points23 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Turns out it's only "rising" because the rates of men killing themselves decrease faster than the rates of women. I.e. both men and women commit less suicide, but those darn men start to recover faster. At least that was the case until 2010. I don't know the most up to date data, but I highly doubt it'll have changed drastically over the last 6 years.

Alternatively the rate of men committing suicide increases slower than the rate of women. Either way, for everyone with half a brain cell this is nothing to make a fuss over.. at least in term of helping the women. But obviously it's the women who need more help, because fuck men. That's true equality.

[–]MCMXChris 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This could be wrong but I thought I read that men are more successful than women in doing it. Mostly because men will go violent routes (ie: gun, jumping) and women tend to try just taking enough pills to sicken you or not even pills you can overdose on

[+]JebberJabber -6 points-5 points-4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You got 18 upvotes for being mostly wrong! The article quotes absolute numbers not a gender ratio.

I agree with the bit about men's rates dropping faster than women's previously, but this article describes something that has arisen only in the last few years - a strong rise in deaths of young women.

I've noticed both UK and Australia stats show men's suicide rate is more variable than women's, I guess men are more sensitive to job loss in economic cycles. The ABS does some very nice sets of graphs showing historical suicide rates by age group. Each group can vary quite a bit independently of the others.
.

"... a 26 per cent increase in the suicide rates among women and the numbers of suicides among women (rise) over the last five year period"

In 2015, 56 girls between the ages of 15 and 19 ended their lives, up from 38 in 2014. That is a 45 per cent increase in a one-year period.

[–]Lupinfujiko 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

3 times as many men are committing suicide - but the article is about how the government needs to change in order to prevent women's suicide.

[–]BuddhaB 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you think there is any corollation between woman taking on more traditional male roles and the increase in female suicides?

The preasures on men is intense wich indicated on the large amount of them taking their own lives.

And they think men are privileged.

[–]reddedo 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that probably has something to do with it, like how i heard some years ago heart disease rates are increasing in women and there was some attribution to more women working in higher stress jobs / careers / working longer being a potential cause

[–]reddedo 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

message received: if men are killing themselves it's business as usual, if women are doing it SET CONDITION RED

[–]ENTP 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's almost as if men dying is normal and they don't care about it.

[–][deleted] 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad you brought this up, even if it is a strawman. The irony of your statement is probably lost on you.

No, we're not whining about 735 women committing suicide. We're not whining at all.

This article highlights two problems, one of them unintentionally: women's suicide, and the widespread neglect of men's suicide and the empathy gap. Three times as many men committed suicide in the same time span, and nobody seems to care. As the famous Chanty Binx said in response to men's suicide, "Cry me a river." Or, as you say, it's just whining man children.

Which is, oddly enough, part of the reason men kill themselves so much. They have nobody to talk to. Nobody cares. Nobody listens. Nobody talks about it. "Stop whining" is the message men with depression receive, and the message you're sending them as well.

By your actions, you want men to die.

[–]Lupinfujiko 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What a disgusting comment.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They're whining about the 2292 men that committed suicide and the perspective that 735 female suicides is worse than 2292 male suicides. What this means is in future your trolling might be more successful if you ridicule the actual point being made in these threads rather than ridiculing points that aren't being made

[–]splodgenessabounds 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You know, it's almost as if the point(s) raised in the commentary here shot straight over your head.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

PHOTO: Hayley Purdon's hobbies include gardening, flying small aeroplanes and sewing.

One of those things is not like the other. I don't like the idea of a depressed person flying an airplane and possibly crashing it into a building or school.

[–]locks_are_paranoid 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As someone who used be depressed, I cannot express in words my hatred for this comment. I personally have no interest in flying planes, but my hobbies were the only thing which got me through my depression. If a person loves to fly small planes, denying them that will only push them further into depression.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Should have clarified: depression with suicidal thoughts.

It's like encouraging someone with depression with suicidal thoughts to engage in things like volunteer work, dog walking or target shooting. One of those things is not like the other. Flying a plane and firearms can both be used for suicide.

[–]locks_are_paranoid 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have a point, but this still seems wrong. Perhaps a restriction saying they cannot fly with passengers, but don't take away what they love completely.

[–][deleted] 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]splodgenessabounds 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He/ she/ it is some kind of expert on suicide and all sorts of gender-related matters. What's more, they have been on reddit for all of 20 minutes...

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