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"Men's Rights Activists" Love Trumps Attacks On Cruz's Wife. Oh dear.

augustfell

March 25, 2016
63 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://archive.is/sBTtQ
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Title "Men's Rights Activists" Love Trumps Attacks On Cruz's Wife. Oh dear.
Author

augustfell

Upvotes 63
Comments 37
Date March 25, 2016 6:53 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4bxtn5/mens_rights_activists_love_trumps_attacks_on/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mens-rights-activists-love-trumps-attacks-on-cruzs.953278
https://theredarchive.com/post/953278
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White feminists get bashed by non-White feminists. Any strategic implications or advantages for MRM?

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Comments

[–]soalone34 39 points40 points41 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

These people have no moral compass when it comes to this. Major news outlets like Time magazine called Elliot Roger an MRA, without any proof. Literally trying to pin murders on MRA's.

Look up "Roosh V MRA", the first result is an old article Roosh V wrote criticizing MRA's and saying he isn't one, the rest of the results are major news outlets and award winning journalists calling him an MRA.

It's one of the most cult like attributes of mainstream feminism, it mirrors Scientologies "Fair game" doctrine, basically the belief that anyone who criticizes the group is fair game and you can justifiably ruin their life, frame them, destroy their image, etc.

[–]TacticusThrowaway 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Major news outlets like Time magazine called Elliot Roger an MRA, without any proof.

AFAIK, the source was some DailyKos article that confused Rodger being on PUAHate with MRAs. SJWs, being SJWs, leaped on the chance to denigrate men "toxic masculinity" and the MRM. Enough people reported it that it seemed credible to lazy reporters (IE most reporters).

I've seen multiple SJWs insist that it doesn't really matter if RooshV isn't an MRA, has negatively criticized the MRM multiple times, and MRAs don't call him one. The MRM is still misogynist, darn it! Stop splitting hairs!

[–]augustfell[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

multiple SJWs insist that it doesn't really matter if RooshV isn't an MRA

hey, as long as it promotes a "discussion" it's okay...

[–]Vandechoz 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure the DailyKos article was itself only quoting that ManBoobz guy.

[–]TacticusThrowaway 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As far as Girlwriteswhat could tell, nope. I know Manboobz managed to say that it was perfectly reasonable for feminists to think Rodger was an MRA. He did this a) without actually admitting Rodger wasn't an MRA, and b)using evidence of this sub's reactions to the incident, not things Rodger actually said.

Also, he responded to the claim that feminists were ignoring the men Rodger killed by going "of course we know he killed men too!" Oddly enough, he forgot to provide any evidence or mention that most of the victims were men. Whoops!

I didn't think it could get worse than that time he threw male rape victims under the bus, but good ol' Davey proved me wrong.

[–]Nulono 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

*;

[–]augustfell[S] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh, and apparently MGTOWs have hired a "spokesman."

[–]TacticusThrowaway 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

ST Rawman, Esq.

[–]Vance87 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Totally stealing this

[–]rg57 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's going to be mistaken for a gay porn star in 3.. 2.. 1...

[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That seriously reminds me of when some stupid reporters claimed that Bitcoin was a company and had a CEO, they just have no fucking clue about anything.

[–]chocoboat 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TSA agents once "saw some bitcoins" in a man's bag and detained him over it. At least they're not in charge of reporting facts to the public, though.

[–]chavelah 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right?!? Can you imagine the MGTOWs agreeing on a spokesman? And why would they want to? That kin d of centralized messaging seems antithetical to their worldview...

[–]IronJohnMRA 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I just can't stop laughing when I read these smear jobs. I really don't think they have any idea the amount of free advertising and new supporters they are giving us out of their own pocket. The day they all stop slinging mud is the day I actually start to worry. Keep spending mainstream media, we need the publicity, and we sure can't afford it.

[–]ee4m 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

I'm now pretty sure this movement needs a politically informed, left wing or progressive platform.

The right end of it produces doing nothing (mgtow is a valid choice though), pick up and stupid quotes and comedy for the mainstream - and that been the case for decades. No progress.

When I think about it, the right platform actually provides no platform for change anyway. Its either keep things as they are, push even more right than our countries already are, and we are more right than we have been in 100 years and its shit, or go backwards but that would involve "socialism".

Anything that could help men is out of the question because rolling out homeless shelters or collective activism equates to "socialism". Fixing the replacement rate or improving wages for men, that would involve "socialism" too. Changing the current right wing regime - "socialism". Calling out the elites wealth grabbing - "socialism". Legal aid for men in custody or child support trouble - "socialism". Socialized health, addiction and mental care - "socialism".

Then pointing out that women have x, y z service while men don't ... its an ideological bind.

There is literally no direction that can go in.

[–]omegaphallic 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You make a good point. There is one thing rightwing MRAs are good for is antifeminism, wish to be fair is a valueable service.

But lets be honest there is a reason why rightwing MRAs are the loudest voice, its because they're better organized and because the left has been so damaged by the cancer that is modern Feminism (which is what the rightwing backers of Feminism intended), that being an Leftwing MRA makes one an instant social pariah on the left.

One day men and supportive women on the left will reach the breaking point, where they're had enough of the bullying and lies of Feminist elites that they fight to take the left back from Feminism.

Till that day the Left Wing MRAs can try to begin to organize.

I was toying with the idea of starting a leftwing MRA political party in Canada, since I ditched the NDP this year because I couldn't handle its gynocentric antimale biases, as well as several policy differences in other areas such as their luddite attacks on genetic engineering and nulcear power, and their constant surrendering to neoliberalism. Plus watch Mulcair snatching defeat from the jaws of victory so that a Trudeau would end up Prime Minister was sickening.

[–]ee4m 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Any successful, proper left platform would have to promote the fact that there can't be a solidified left so long as there is a gender ideology that causes resentment and makes a fault line down the middle.

I don't think it would be difficult to get a good portion of people to understand that the gender wage gap dispute is inherently right wing because it sets men and women up as market opponents battling for market share, and thats not left wing. Its an appropriation of it thats hiding left wing issues.

[–]augustfell[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Absolutely right. Unfortunately, the SJW ideology demands a boogie man to unify against. Right now that boogie man is the White Male. Either you would have to get the Left to reject the need for a boogie man, or you would have to get them to switch to a new boogie man(such as "Wall Street", or "capitalism," or whatever). Sanders is doing a decent job pushing for such a switch, but I think it will quickly fade if he doesn't become president (which is likely).

[–]ee4m 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah. Those sjw's and so on aren't the left. There are lots of politically astute people on the left that know that's top down divide and rule.

They can go divide themselves!

Up front there can be no identity politics or feminism recognized, because its a tool that's used to split the left and distract people from the real issues.

Then have clear issues and objectives, starting with concerns at the bottom. Homelessness, worker friendly immigration policy (end mass immigration), direct investment in job creation, due process, VAWA, legal aid for men in custody and child support legal battles ...

[–]NUMBERS2357 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If someone made a subreddit for this I'd be there in an instant. I don't know if there's enough support for the idea, but it's worth a shot. I think that such a group could make certain criticisms of conservative policies more easily/forcefully than feminists.

Lots of racism against black men, for example, deals in gender stereotypes same as racial ones, and feminists are a little handcuffed from really going after it because they believe those gender stereotypes. Similar idea with gay men.

[–]ee4m 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Nationalizing the american prison system, decreasing the population and ending the slave labour in there would be a good one.

Along with progressive worker friendly immigration and job creation.

Look at trumps success with worker friendly polices, imagine that without the racism and with pro man platform.

[–]Dnavich 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

As a very leftwing MRA I absolutely agree with this.

Further left wing mras can more effectively wedge the left of certain issues. For example we can more easily bring black males and homosexual men on board and employ them as spokespeople in the media because feminists know they look bad when they criticize these men. Feminists still hate them because theyre men, but other leftwingers will be split between supporting what becomes an issue of black or gay rights and feminism, and traditionally leftwing men will choose black or gay rights over feminism.

Feminism is a cancer that has infected the left. There is a large number of leftwing men who see that but there is not a critical mass of these and so we need to split more leftwing men away from feminists.

The articles by feminists who criticize leftwing men (google them) as being terrible despite their support would be good fuel for this effort.

However, while black and gay men are a workable wedge in America, in Europe there is a better wedge that the rightwing simply cannot use because of their own ideological bias which stops them from taking the practical steps required to win against feminists, simply because they want to remain pure.

As a leftwinger I can go beyond ideology and make strategic choices based on purely practical concerns.

The wedge for Europe is quite obviously Islam.

Support Islam against feminists.

At the same time wed have to partially westernize Islamic men. By incorporating them in our movement and giving them a purpose in making our society by giving them an acceptable enemy we can both make them amenable to westernization and at the same time destroy feminism.

Terror attacks wouldn't be needed. Just criticism from Islamic leaders and communities against feminists. Feminists would then openly attack Islamic men. Leftwing men would mostly choose Islam over feminists, like I would, and feminists would be slowly forced away from the core of the left.

If the feminists resisted criticizing the Islamics due to cognitive bias perhaps some independent groups of Islamics could be um 'directed' against certain feminists, to 'act' against them.

Once a few feminists are 'actioned' the feminists would be sure to turn on Islam. Then the leftwing men would say this is unfair because not all Muslims are guilty of what a few Muslims did against feminists, and so these men would go against the feminists.

Once the feminists are purged from the left, they would be forced to join forces with the Christian tradcons. From there they are easily purged from our establishments and mainstream society.

Meanwhile with the joining of Muslim men and leftwing men, these Muslim men would become more leftwing as their feminist opponents grew more rightwing.

We would end up with an egalitarian society feminism dead and buried and tamed Muslims.

Of course the rightwing part of the MRM wont be able to achieve this. All they can do is oppose every actor, they cannot form alliances with some actors to turn them against other actors. This is why if the MRM is left up to the rightwing alone, it will fail, and within a few decades men will be utterly enslaved to women.

[–]augustfell[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I like how you projected far into the future like a chess player. However, I think there are some weak links in your logic.

First, the Left defends radical Islam without asking for anything in return. It's almost a knee jerk reaction for them to stick up for the "underdog." So I don't see the pressure for radical Muslims to moderate.

Second, I don't see radical Muslims disliking Western feminists any more than regular Western women. My guess is that they view both of them as equally bad. It is likely true that radical Muslims dislike Muslim feminists. However, Western feminists seem to go out of their way to ignore Muslim feminists, probably because the latter group really exposes how privileged Western feminists are.

In short, in your scenario, I only see two likely outcomes: Islam becomes so influential, and non-moderate, that feminists flee to the Right. Or Islam does not rise to power and feminists remain entrenched in the Left. Seeing both a moderation in Islam and a feminists exodus from the Left seems unlikely.

[–]Dnavich 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

the Left defends radical Islam without asking for anything in return

For the moment. However if Islam acts against feminists, then feminists will NOT defend Islam anymore because ultimately they see them as just men who they hate. This will force leftist men to choose either feminism or Islam. I predict they will mostly choose Islam.

I don't see radical Muslims disliking Western feminists any more than regular Western women

There is leftwing Islamic thought. Also moderate Muslims. We could have radical Muslims make attacks on feminists (or even just specifically target 'loose' western women to piss off feminists) while using the moderate and leftwing Muslims to counter the feminist criticism. This bait and switch causes moderate Muslims to hate feminists for unjustly attacking them.

Islam becomes so influential, and non-moderate, that feminists flee to the Right.

Well one goal is to cause feminists to flee to the rightwing.

The other goal is to convert most Muslims to leftwing Islamic movement by giving them a purpose within western society and actively spreading leftwing ideology among them while using feminists as a focus and scapegoat for their anti western feelings.

At the moment the moderates are the silent majority and the radicals rule because of the noise they make.

If western society actively supported the Muslim moderates these moderate might come to use that support to dominate Islamic society rather than staying quiet out of fear of being targeted by radicals on one side and western society on the other.

there are some weak links in your logic.

I agree.

I can see the big picture the overarching strategy of:

  1. pointing radical Muslims at feminists and release like a targeted missile perhaps by first setting up feminists to do something blasphemous against Islam.

  2. using moderate Muslims to block the social counter attack in a bait and switch

  3. leftwing men support moderate Islam over feminists. It is our nature to support the underdog.

  4. moderate Muslims, using the support from 3., dominate Islam, actively purge radicals, convert to the left, and as feminists flee to the right to escape Muslims the leftwing and their new Muslim moderate allied voting block take over society.

However I cannot see the little details. We would need specialists who can see the fine detail. That's where I fall down unfortunately.

I believe there are people who could carry all these things out.

I am an American so I often work to bring black men and homosexual men into men's rights. Black live matter into men's live matter by pointing out its not the black women that are being killed but the black MEN. Going to my local homosexual nightclub, dressed all in black leather and wearing makeup for the win, and talking about men's rights there. They often crowd around and listen to me and mostly agree too so long as I frame it from a point of view that matters to them. (Some 'petting' doesn't hurt either in getting them to listen lol). They can be used as a wedge here.

Men's rights activists in Europe really should consider using Muslims as a wedge where they are. The results if men's rights doesn't succeed soon could be catastrophic for our society. Europe will go before America does. America has more time. The poor guys in Europe don't have that time as their societies have always been natively more fascist than Americans.

[–]augustfell[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The right end of it produces doing nothing

It has been producing anti-feminism for a long time. The non-SJW Left is playing catch up.

the right platform actually provides no platform for change anyway.

Its primary platform is in preventing bad change. Combating radical feminism is much of what this forum wants.

However, I agree that an overarching commitment to helping everyone in need would make it easier to help men. As it stands now, helping women is treated as a special case and men aren't viewed as worthy enough for help.

Now here's the downside. Government funding is a finite resource, which means groups will often times be competing for those resources. Unless there is a cultural shift, I don't see feminists rolling over and letting half the funding go to men.

[–]ee4m 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It has been producing anti-feminism for a long time. The non-SJW Left is playing catch up.

True.

Now here's the downside. Government funding is a finite resource, which means groups will often times be competing for those resources. Unless there is a cultural shift, I don't see feminists rolling over and letting half the funding go to men.

Absolutely true. There is this though, a left wing movement focusing on working class issues - and middle class college women punching down and trying to stop the men at the bottom getting help - that's leaving themselves wide open.

[–]augustfell[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

middle class college women punching down and trying to stop the men at the bottom getting help

Feminists are too "smart" for that. Don't underestimate them. If they want to attack working-class men, they usually do so by invoking the misogyny that working-class women face. If the topic is homelessness, they will talk about homeless women. Even when they are clearly dominating a field, such as college education, can still paint themselves as victims of rape culture, and therefore make the discussion about them. As women come to dominate medicine, expect to see articles about the harassment female doctors face. And so on.

Thus, feminists manage to avoid the appearance of "punching down", even though that is exactly what they are doing.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah they can go away and talk about that.

[–]Lrellok 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“So, is it really an ‘attack’?” a spokesman for Men Going Their Own Way—a group that preaches the preservation of male sovereignty at all costs, including by staying away from women entirely—asked rhetorically. The spokesman, who didn’t give his name, continued:

MGTOW has official unnamed spokesmen... Excuse me my tinfoil hat is a bit dusty.

“People who have ugly wives should not comment on other men’s wives,” one user in a private chat room for MRAs said in response to a question from The Daily Beast.

If this was said in a private chat room, how the hell do you know about it? Why is the Daily Beast contacting random people an asking them about a political movement? If i contacted a random member of the democratic party and asked them several leading questions, could i then lambast Hillary over the answers?

There’s an entire section of the The Red Pill subreddit that seeks to explain how Trump’s ideas align with theirs.

Awsome, what does this have to do with mens rights? We are a human rights movement, not a dating service.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Once again, Donald Trump is amplifying the voices of people who have been marginalized for good reason..."

Gotcha, men and the working class have been marginalized for good reasons. What a sexist, plutocratic piece of turd this writer is.

[–]lostapwbm 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

So-called men’s rights activists applauded, praising Trump for his virility and the attractiveness of his wife, and cheering that their ideas were at last getting a wider hearing. Daryush “Roosh” Valizadeh, leader of the “pro-rape” organization Return of Kings, told The Daily Beast that the tweet was warranted.

Oh for fuck's sake. Everything You Wanted To Know About Roosh But Were Afraid to Ask Q: Are you a men's rights activist?

Roosh: No, but I sympathize with their views. I would call myself a neomasculinist."

“So, is it really an ‘attack’?” a spokesman for Men Going Their Own Way...

LOLWUT?

The group hosting the conservation, in which The Daily Beast participated, is meant for believers in The Red Pill, an Internet-generated ideology that purports that men are oppressed and women are not.

I'm pretty sure their schtick is that "sexual strategy is amoral. Play to win. Lift. Game. Plate. Repeat."

These are people hiding behind usernames...

Sort of like that epic pussy, Thomas Paine..

Trump, who says things about women like “you have to treat ‘em like shit,” and does things like pouring wine on female reporters or bearing witness as his campaign manager physically grabs them, sounds a lot like the Internet commenters in their basements.

I'm confused here. Are we all Apex Alpha Trumps who treat women like shit? Or are we kissless virgins sitting the basement playing Evercrack and masturbating with heady blend of Cheetos, Mountain Dew and Jergens?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What about Cruz's attacks on Trump's wife?

[–]Grailums 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't matter. It's a fact of reality so for the left it's inconsequential or, worse, a lie.

Trump winning this election will, hopefully, put a knife in the delusional state the left has been suffering from for the past 8 years at least.

[–]blueoak9 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"“So, is it really an ‘attack’?” a spokesman for Men Going Their Own Way—a group that preaches the preservation of male sovereignty at all costs, including by staying away from women entirely"

Patriarchal feminism in a spoon. Staying away from women is male supremacy, because women can't ever do anything for themselves and a man is misogynist if he doesn't submit.

The man is a macho pig.

[–]questionnmark 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's because people like to tar their enemies with the same brush. I do it too. I think of feminists along the same lines as the KKK and neo-nazism in terms of being a hate movement. I guess they do that too because it's convenient to lump things into a duality of 'things that are good' and 'things that are bad'.

[–]rg57 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought the attack on Trump's wife was strange. Who WOULDN'T want someone that beautiful as First Lady?

And frankly, I love the idea of a porn star (I call it like I see it) in the White House. It would give the US the moral shake-up it so desperately needs.

The attack on Cruz's wife... well, if that's really what she looked like at that instant, how is that an attack? By white-knighting, Cruz is the one who validated the attack, instead of just saying, "Yeah, that's her. So what of it?" His over-reaction basically confirms that he agrees she's ugly.

Do politicians not understand politics any more?

[–]augustfell[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

His over-reaction basically confirms that he agrees she's ugly. Do politicians not understand politics any more?

His "over-reaction" was deliberate. If you're a public figure and someone insults your wife, you need to turn into an angry gorilla, otherwise people will think you are simultaneously weak and heartless. Both those things will cost you votes.

There was an infamous case of this in U.S. politics. In the 80s a presidential candidate (either Mondale or Dukakis), who opposed the death penalty, was asked, "What would you do if someone raped and murdered your wife?" His response entailed cold, legal and procedural mumbo jumbo. It was widely considered a political fail on his part.

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