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The guy on the comments did nothing wrong

Abstract_Knight

June 6, 2022
204 upvotes
/r/AntiFeminists
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Post Information
Title The guy on the comments did nothing wrong
Author

Abstract_Knight

Upvotes 204
Comments 208
Date June 6, 2022 10:56 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/v6g3tm/the_guy_on_the_comments_did_nothing_wrong/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/the-guy-on-the-comments-did-nothing-wrong.1116960
https://theredarchive.com/post/1116960
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Comments

[–]Dandyman-GM 80 points81 points82 points 4 years ago (59 children) | Copy Link

Personal responsibility, for men, it is required. It should be the same for women.

[–]WillCuckSmith 24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago (56 children) | Copy Link

Well, technically pregnancy is 100% the responsibility of the female, since she's the one who gets pregnant. Men can only assist in that responsibility. Sex isn't consent to have children, which also is why men shouldn't pay child support if they never consented to children with said person.

[–]casra888 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ask her, she'll tell you she's always the victim.

[–]WillCuckSmith 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't they all?

[–]justafashionacct 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

How are women 100% responsible for a natural bodily function? Women aren't defective because female bodies naturally conceive. Pregnancy is 50% the man's responsibility.

And sex is always consent to risk of pregnancy. You have sex? A pregnancy might result. You don't necessarily have to stay the child's parent, but there's always a chance of creating a new person.

[–]WillCuckSmith -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

How are women 100% responsible for a natural bodily function?

You mean for THEIR natural bodily function... and your answer is in your question!

Women aren't defective because female bodies naturally conceive.

Not sure what you're talking about here. "Defective"? dafuq?

Pregnancy is 50% the man's responsibility.

Pregnancy doesn't happen to the man, so no.

And sex is always consent to risk of pregnancy.

That's the female's concern. Sex isn't consent to have children.

Understand now?

If you have more question feel free to ask!

[–]ItisCrazey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Their Natural body function is to have a period and being able to conceive.

A mans is to help conceive.

It is 50/50

Otherwise if its 100% the womans "fault" than she would be able to conceive on her own or with another women (without science)

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Their Natural body function is to have a period and being able to conceive.

Yup!

A mans is to help conceive.

He donates the sperm, yup!

It is 50/50

Nope! Not sure how pregnancy, which 100% occurs in the woman only, makes it half his responsibility. Please explain this.

You think since he only donated sperm, therefore all choices she takes at that time and after, are somehow half his responsibility?

Please tell everyone here how you can have responsibility without cohice. Would love to hear this one.

Otherwise if its 100% the womans "fault" than she would be able to conceive on her own or with another women (without science)

Nope. Bad logic.

Let me help you with an analogy:

If someone of legal age goes drinking and driving and kills some people, is it proper to go back to the clerk at the liquor store and blame him 50% for the lives lost? No, right? See how that works?

More questions just ask!

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So by your logic:

You can go to your parents and blame them for conceiving you which made you get someone/ get pregnant?

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

How would that be my logic? You actually think you're using logic right now with that? Dafuq?

Dude, just realize that we are all responsible for the states we put our bodies in. You can't offload your responsibilities onto other people.. you can only hope they share it if they desire to.

This is why we need child support to be opt-in only - men need to be able to walk away from something they never wanted. Understand?

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So you are agreeing with me. You cant put your responsibility of your sperm being able to fertilize a womens egg on her.

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The sperm becomes her property. That's irrelevant.

I've already told you a couple of times why pregnancy is 100% her responsibility.

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If it takes two to create a pregnancy, it takes two to be responsible for one. Putting 100% of the burden of reproductive responsibility on women because they cook the baby is silly.

[–]WillCuckSmith1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If it takes two to create a pregnancy

Yet only one person gets pregnant. We are all responsible for the state of our own bodies. It doesn't matter how she got pregnant, the fact is that she got herself pregnant through however she did it, with whoever she did it with. She is responsible for herself and the condition she put her body in.

Putting 100% of the burden of reproductive responsibility on women because they cook the baby is silly.

It seems you don't want to say "pregnancy", since it would require you to realize that it's her body and thus her responsibility. I wonder if that's why, instead of saying that, you use "reproductive responsibility". Funny.

I don't know how many times I need to explain the obvious to you.

I hope you understand from my last message.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I dont understand how you don't understand!

No one can become pregnant without ejaculation from a man. Is she responsible for his ejaculation? No she's not he is and if he gave a flying fuck about her health he should care too about whether or not he gets her pregnant. These are all excuses to rid yourself of any responsibility and it's laughable.

[–]emolano 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If a woman decide to have to sex and end up getting pregnant, it's her responsability since the choise is hers after all. This is why you should be careful with your partners or at least have him using a condom.

[–]justafashionacct 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The choice to kill an unborn human is not a morally valid choice, it is murder. It's not 100% her responsibility because both biological parents are responsible for the existence of the child.

[–]emolano 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree that abortion is murder. I agree in part about the men sharing responsability, since it's the woman that chose her sexual partner to begin with.

If she had a son with a boyfriend or husband I agree that he has 50% of it and must help raise the kid everytime.

If she choses to have casual sex with a stranger that's not willing to commit and get pregnant from him, it's 100% on her.

It's the drink and drive analogy the other user made. If you're driving and get hit by a drunk drive where's you fault? But if both of you where drunk you both caused the accident and must bear the responsability.

Just like I have zero empath for drunk people that die in car crashes I have zero empathy for women who throw their lifes away because she could not resist to make unprotected sex with a hot stranger.

The kid and the colateral victims of the drunk driver are the ones that make me sad since they have 0 fault and now their lifes are aldo ruined.

[–]radfemalewoman2 points 4 years ago [recovered] (32 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t realize I just “got” pregnant. Seems like my husband “got” me pregnant just as much as I did.

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't matter how you got pregnant. The fact remains is that pregnancy is a condition of your body and you're responsible for that, 100%.

You got yourself pregnant, no matter how you did it. Just because a person may have willfully had sex with you doesn't mean that the responsibility and accountability for your actions is any less.

[–]Constant-Equipment30 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

So easy to just put all the responsibilities of reproduction on women while you run around sticking your dick in anything that moves. Grow up. It's a team effort to create a pregnancy, both need to be equal shares accountable

[–]WillCuckSmith 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

So easy to just put all the responsibilities of reproduction on women

They are the ones who get pregnant. It's not about "easy" or not, it's about facts.

while you run around sticking your dick in anything that moves

If women can have sex with whoever they want without worry of the responsibility of children, why can't men? Do you have a problem with that?

Grow up.

What does that even mean? Grow up how? How does one "grow up" in your scenario here?

It's a team effort to create a pregnancy

You're still forgetting that pregnancy only happens to the female.

If you go out drinking and driving and you kill someone, should we go back to the clerk at the liquor store and make him pay half damages and do half the jail time since he sold you the alcohol? No, right?

You take responsibility for your actions - for the state of your body and for the things you do to yourself.

Women are the ones who get pregnant, remember? I've said this before.

both need to be equal shares accountable

But yet you cannot be if you're a man, because it's her body and you cannot make any decisions about it. You can't abort her pregnancy or do anything. You have no choices as a man, therefore you can't have any responsibilities. Do you understand that responsibility requires choice?

Anymore questions?

[–]Constant-Equipment30 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

Your scenario is so dumb lol. It takes the effort of two to create a pregnancy. Sperm can only result in one outcome when left inside a woman. Many outcomes are possible when selling alcohol to someone. It's like you believe you're just giving sperm to someone and they decide what to do with it. Drunk driving is also not a team effort unless there are two people behind the wheel. That is the only way your scenario would make sense.

It's not about being responsible for the pregnant person. It's about being responsible for getting her pregnant. Obviously you have no control over her body, but you do have control over what measures are taken to prevent a pregnancy and it's not solely her responsibility just because she's the one who falls pregnant. You truly are trying to eliminate responsibility and risk for all men and place it all on women.

[–]WillCuckSmith 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

Your scenario is so dumb lol.

That's not an argument. That's a personal attack.

It takes the effort of two to create a pregnancy.

You've already said this and I've responded to it. How about NOT repeating yourself and instead cover my points?

It's about being responsible for getting her pregnant.

By suggesting the man "gets her pregnant", you're removing all responsibility and accountability from the female. This isn't the case. It is ALL her responsibility, because pregnancy is with her only.

If you want to say: "I don't mean to make it seem like it's all his responsibility", then you shouldn't have said that.

You can't be responsible for what someone else does with their property. Women engage in sex and know full well what could happen. They should take precautions to ensure that they don't want certain outcomes. It's their body and nobody else can make those decisions but her.

Obviously you have no control over her body, but you do have control over what measures are taken to prevent a pregnancy

Remember, pregnancy only happens with her. You can only help her with her responsibility. In fact, she can demand it if you two have sex. It's all her decision. It's her body. It's the state of her body.

There is no way to avoid this. You can't simply keep repeating yourself, thinking you're going to get anywhere in this conversation.

You truly are trying to eliminate responsibility and risk for all men and place it all on women.

Responsibility for pregnancy IS 100% women's responsibility. Men don't have any responsibility for it. They can only share in HER responsibilities... or be forced to (like condoms) by her in order to have sex.

Do you understand yet?

I dont understand how you don't understand!

You aren't responding to my points. You're only repeating yourself.

No one can become pregnant without ejaculation from a man.

You're repeating yourself. We know this. You haven't responded to my points.

Until you can respond to my points, you aren't advancing the conversation logically.

[–]Constant-Equipment30 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

I have responded to your points, you didn't respond at all to my response to your scenario, only the part where I called it dumb. Yes that is my opinion, but I fully explained why it's dumb too. So maybe pay attention. I'm also repeating myself because it's clearly not going through your head.

Yes it's the state of her body. But who causes that state? Literally cannot happen without ejaculation. So, a couple that is going to have sex should be responsible together to prevent what they wish to prevent. Men do not get to absolve themselves of responsibility because their bodies dont change. They need to be responsible for their sperm and where they put it, the women needs to responsible for her fertility and the risk for pregnancy. Saying she much force him to wear a condom or whatever is just so silly.

If you're not ready to accept responsibility for the fact you can impregnate someone then don't have sex. I take birth control pills, that is my responsibility for my reproduction. The men I've been with have volunteered to wear condoms because they are responsible for their reproduction. That is how it should work.

[–]WillCuckSmith 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

I have responded to your points,

If your response was just to repeat yourself, then congrats, yes, you've responded to my points.. with the same argument you made the first time without logically advancing the conversation.

you didn't respond at all to my response to your scenario, only the part where I called it dumb.

Please tell me what I have neglected, which you felt was a fair point? Please tell me.

Yes it's the state of her body. But who causes that state?

Ok, she caused the state. The sperm becomes her property. She is the one who gets pregnant. She caused the change of state of her body due to her actions. Her actions was to receive the sperm and get pregnant.

It doesn't matter if she got it from a guy's penis, sperm bank, a condom or from giving a BJ and spitting it inside of her. She is the one who changed the state because SHE engaged in the actions. Only SHE can change the state of her body due to HER choices. SHE is responsible for her choices. It's her body and the condition of her body was HER decision.

I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. You must now respond to that.

Literally cannot happen without ejaculation.

You've already said this, multiple times. I've responded. Now respond to my points. I will not keep repeating myself until you do.

You speak, now.

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have responded to your points, like I said before it's not getting through your thick skull so ya I've repeated myself.

So, it becomes her property before it leaves his penis? Because the decision on where the sperm is going to end up usually happens before it leaves. Making it his property and his responsibility.

She is not responsible for his sperm! You literally cannot argue that with logic. It comes from his body he is responsible for where it ends up.

If it becomes her property when it's in her body then the child that may be created is fully her property and in no sense at all belongs to the man by your logic. Which isn't true. So is it her property or is it their shared property?

You can talk down to me all you'd like but your argument makes no sense at all. You just really would like to have as much fun as possible with as little responsibility as possible leaving it all up to the women to deal with. Any responsible partner will fully share the burden of reproduction. If you do not think you have any responsibility at all, don't put your sperm anywhere.

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have responded to your points, like I said before it's not getting through your thick skull so ya I've repeated myself.

You have NOT responded to my points.

So, it becomes her property before it leaves his penis?

Finally you respond to ONE point. Yes, it is her property. He does not control it. If the state of her body changes, it's due to her choices. She decides if she gets pregnant or not. He has no control over this. Sex is NOT consent to have children. <-- Remember this line.

Because the decision on where the sperm is going to end up usually happens before it leaves

Not always. Many things can happen. He can use a condom. She can take it from the condom if he doesn't dispose of it property. Condoms can also break. There are other ways she can get pregnant.

In any case, sex is not consent to have children.

It's her body, her decision. She decides what happens to it. She is responsible for herself.

It seems like you want to try to give all responsibility or at least half to the person she CHOSE to have sex with. No, that's not the way it works. Who is the one who makes decisions? She is... because it's her body.

She is not responsible for his sperm!

She is responsible for how sperm can affect her body. So yes, she is. It's her body and her responsibility. Nobody else can be responsible for other people's bodies and what they choose to do with them.

So no, you're wrong.

You literally cannot argue that with logic.

I just did - quite successfully. It was poor logic.

It comes from his body he is responsible for where it ends up.

Depends on where it ended up. But even if he could decide where it ends up, it's still her body and her condition - not his.

If it becomes her property when it's in her body then the child that may be created is fully her property and in no sense at all belongs to the man by your logic.

Depends on if he wanted it or not. That's another argument. However, the argument that needs to be made here is that he should NOT be held to pay for something he never wanted since he had no choice in the matter.

Sex is not consent to have children.

You can talk down to me all you'd like

You were the one hurling personal attacks.

but your argument makes no sense at all.

It may not make sense TO YOU, but it is logical.

You just really would like to have as much fun as possible with as little responsibility as possible...

Women can do that. Why can't men? You still haven't responded to this point I made. You've said the above before, BUT DID NOT RESPOND TO MY RESPONSE. You seem to not want to tackle some of the things I say - I wonder why.

leaving it all up to the women to deal with.

Because it's her body - her decision. Her condition.

Any responsible partner will fully share the burden of reproduction.

That's just it - we aren't necessarily talking about committed partners. We are talking about just men and women and basic responsibilities.

If you do not think you have any responsibility at all, don't put your sperm anywhere.

Sex is not consent to have children, so people are still going to have sex. If you want to avoid pregnancy, talk to the women - not the men. Got it?

You've responded to like, one point. You've repeated yourself a lot as well, and ignored many points I've made.

You're not too good at this.

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're not good at this. You're telling me he can't control his sperm at all?? Please 😂

I have responded to your points, you haven't responded to mine. And since you're so determined to not have any responsibility at all then keep your penis to yourself. You cannot argue logically a man has no responsibility. You're just trying to convince yourself of that.

[–]WillCuckSmith1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're not good at this.

Dude, trying to use my words against me won't get you anywhere. It's obvious to any reasonable person that you are having issues with this conversation.

You're telling me he can't control his sperm at all?? Please 😂

This is correct. We do not have a remote control on sperm. Are you retarded?

I have responded to your points, you haven't responded to mine.

Really? Oh please tell me what I haven't responded to. I've responded to everything you've said multiple times.

And since you're so determined to not have any responsibility at all then keep your penis to yourself.

Repeating yourself yet again.

You're an asshat, lady.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you, I enjoy the insults truly. I'm sorry you don't like being told to keep your penis to yourself since you're a child that would like to have guilt free sex in all scenarios.

He controls where it ends up. It comes from his body, that makes it his problem. It's truly childish to ask women to carrying the entire burden of reproductive safety and responsibility. Any kind and RESPONSIBLE man would take accountability for his reproductive organs and where his sperm is ending up.

Any childish man would blame the woman for falling pregnant after leaving his sperm inside her. That, in most cases, is a shared decision/mistake.

[–]WillCuckSmith1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm sorry you don't like being told to keep your penis to yourself

This has nothing to do with the conversation.

He controls where it ends up.

No, men do not necessarily.

It comes from his body

Irrelevant.

that makes it his problem

No.

It's truly childish to..

You obviously are incapable of logical discourse on the matter. We are done here.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So was calling me an asshat

Men 100% absolutely control where it ends up. Accidents can happen but that still is under his control if he'd like to risk an accident. It's a choice made together, or a man can choose for himself without the woman's knowledge or consent. The opposite is not possible. Men are not forced to cum in places they don't want to.

The fact it comes from his body is not irrelevant that's the most relevant thing. To say women have more responsibility over something that comes out of a man's body is obsurd

Yes it does make it his problem.

I gave you a perfectly logically answer, you should include the whole sentence where I explained its childish to void yourself of responsibility in a team created scenario. But if you're out of argument we can be done :)

[–]WillCuckSmith1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men 100% absolutely control where it ends up.

Repeating your bullshit doesn't make your argument anymore true. I've already responded to this. No, they do not. Even if they do, you haven't responded to the fact that it's her body.. her pregnancy.

You can't keep giving responsibility to other people when it's your body that gets pregnant. Just like the clerk in the liquor store, you can't go back to him and have him do half your time in jail for when you drank and drove and killed people.

The fact it comes from his body is not irrelevant that's the most relevant thing

Not at all. He's not the one who gets pregnant - the female does.

To say women have more responsibility over something that comes out of a man's body is obsurd

Once sperm leaves his body, and it's with her, it's 100% her responsibility and he has no control over it whatsoever.

However, you failed to cover the point that it IS HER that gets pregnant. If a man gets pregnant, then he would have the responsibility to prevent or care for that situation.

It all goes back to my analogy of the clerk in the liquor store.

Yes it does make it his problem.

Men are not in control of their sperm after it leaves. It's not his problem because it's not his responsibility anymore.

I gave you a perfectly logically answer,

If you did, I would have difficulty with your response and I would see the error of my ways, if there was one.

you should include the whole sentence where I explained its childish to void yourself of responsibility in a team created scenario

Pregnancy isn't a team scenario. It only happens to women. It's nice to think of things as a team. I wish the world could be more like that, but it's not.

Listen, people have one-night stands. People fuck in all sorts of places. Sex happens with people who don't even know each other and forget each other the next day.

Stop thinking it's always a team. It's not. It's just two people having sex. One of those people can change a state in their bodies where they get pregnant. That person is responsible for when and if that happens. Nobody else is. Others can help with that responsibility, but don't have any direct responsibility for it.

This is something you are having a hard time with and are not addressing. Instead of addressing that, you wind up repeating your earlier claims, which do not help at all.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is always a team, whether they knew each other well or not it takes two people to create a pregnancy that is a team effort. They do have direct responsibility when the hold the key to causing pregnancy.

I find it so funny you claim I've repeated myself so much. I've given you new responses and scenarios everytime you just don't like them. Devaluing what I say in that way is not gonna win you a debate.

I have addressed that women are the ones who get pregnant multiple times. I understand that. Men cause pregnancies. Both need to be responsible for the creation of a pregnancy.

He controls where his sperm goes, that 100% factors into whether that creates a pregnancy or not. If he cums inside a woman, pregnancy might be created. You act as though men have no idea how pregnancy works and therefore since women are the only ones who fully understand they are the ones who are responsible. Men aren't stupid. They need to be responsible about the possibility of creating pregnancy.

Again, if it's not his responsibility once it leaves his body, he has no right to claim responsibility over it once it leaves her body in the form of a child. If it becomes her property, it stays her property. Obviously thats not how it works so your point there isn't founded on logic.

I've already told you why that scenario is dumb. Men don't give away their sperm having no idea what's going to happen to it. Comparing that to a man who is selling alcohol legally to someone who then causes an accident is not even close to comparable. Again, it would only be a plausible scenario if two drunk people were behind the wheel and caused the wreck and only one of them was injured in the process. Two people caused it, two people are responsible.

Again, I completely understand women are the ones that bare the bigger load when it comes to reproduction. However, absolving Men of responsibility because they aren't the ones who are physically affected by pregnancy is 1. Stupid, 2. Cruel, 3. Clear evidence that all you want is guilt free sex. You can cum inside a woman and make it her problem. That's ridiculous. Men need to be responsible for their reproduction, there should be no debate about it.

Why do you want to absolve responsibility? It's so easy to be aware of your fertility and how it can affect someone why can't you just take responsibility over it? The literal only reason is childishness. You want easy sex, and you want women to deal with the entire mental and physical load of reproductive responsibility. And that is absolutely not how it works.

If you truly believe your point, then the consequence of that would be that you believe Men to never hold parental rights unless the mother so graciously allows him to. That is very wrong. If he wants to claim a child or not claim a child, he needs to be accountable for it before it leaves his body.

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is always a team, whether they knew each other well or not it takes two people to create a pregnancy that is a team effort.

It's a team effort to go drinking and driving. The clerk must sell me the liquor. I then have to consume it and then go driving, causing accidents and killing people. The clerk at the liquor store has just as much responsibility as I do.

I have addressed that women are the ones who get pregnant multiple times. I understand that. Men cause pregnancies.

Oh look, the "men cause pregnancies" argument. Apparently women have no responsibilities or accountability when it comes to getting pregnant. It's as if it doesn't happen to them. No, it's all men's fault, right? It's like we have total say over whether a woman gets pregnant or not - it's as if we have complete control over their bodies.

What's that? Oh, you didn't mean to say that? But yet it's implied when you say "Men cause pregnancies.".

You fail to comment on the fact that we are all responsible for our own bodies and what we do with them.

He controls where his sperm goes

You're repeating yourself, constantly. You've said that already. I've responded to it, but yet you go back to repeating it again instead of covering the new material.

Again, if it's not his responsibility once it leaves his body, he has no right to claim responsibility over it once it leaves her body in the form of a child.

You can argue that if you can, that's fine. That's another topic. I've already addressed this, but you failed to cover that, too.

Listen, I'm about tired of reading your repeated arguments. You say something, I respond to it.. you ignore what I've said and just repeat your current, shitty argumentative points that you've already said.

Yea, that's not how it works.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They're not shitty, youve just really conviced yourself that you would like to have sex with no responsibility. And I did repeat myself pointedly because your responses to the things I repeated this time were asinine.

I've have acknowledged women's part in becoming pregnant multiple times. But you're ignoring that in favor of the fact I said men cause pregnancy. Which they do! No pregnancy without sperm. But they have a responsibility for what they create.

You're right that's not how it works. So then the sperm is not the woman's property. Otherwise if it was the child would be fully her property and it's not. So your entire argument is invalid by that point alone.

If you want to have responsibility free sex thats fine I guess. You do you. It's just pretty shitty and truly not how it should work.

Also you should really drop the selling alcohol scenario. It truly doesn't fit into this situation at all and it's a silly point. I've told you multiple times why it is, so stop repeating yourself :)

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

youve just really conviced yourself that you would like to have sex with no responsibility

Why shouldn't I? Women do, do they not? Why should men have to worry about paying for something for 18+ years of their lives, but women don't? Where's the equality in that?

And I did repeat myself pointedly because your responses to the things I repeated this time were asinine.

Sorry but no, you repeated yourself because you have no argument, so you fall back to the original assertions you've made.

You still have not covered the fact that pregnancy only happens to the woman, therefore is her responsibility. When coupled with the fact that we are all responsible for our own bodies and what we subject them to, you have no response to that.

No pregnancy without sperm.

I've already addressed this, just like I have everything else you've said. It doesn't matter where she got the sperm from, pregnancy happens with her, not a man. It's her body and her responsibility.

You've failed to address this.

You fail to address all major points.

If you want to have responsibility free sex thats fine I guess.

Women do. Why can't men?

Also you should really drop the selling alcohol scenario.

It's a perfect analogy for what we are covering.

It truly doesn't fit into this situation at all and it's a silly point.

It completely fits and is a great point.

I've told you multiple times why it is, so stop repeating yourself :)

No, you have not.

I'm only repeating myself at times because you've made points and I've responded to those points, but you have not covered the points I've made in response. You just fall back to what you've said before - repeating yourself.

You really don't know how to have this conversation.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have not failed to address it. I've addressed it multiple times. I've acknowledged pregnancy happens to the woman. I'm not saying she doesn't have responsibility. I even gave the example of myself taking pills as my form of responsibility over creating pregnancy. You are failing to read correctly if you have not realized I have addressed this.

I simply do not agree with the fact you believe men have no responsibility.

I do not agree with men paying 18+ years for a child they don't want. They can give up parental rights. Though the system in general does need reform. But that is irrelevant to the topic.

Men have responsibility for their bodies and what it creates and where it goes. And women the same. So it's a shared responsibility. No logical way around that.

It's not a great point because if you were to put creating a child in equal roles as sharing alcohol, that's basically saying a man is giving away his sperm and he has no control over where it goes, who has it, and what happens to it. All 3 things are in his control. A seller of alcohol can only control what age he sells the alcohol to. He has no control over what is done with it or how it is used. If somebody drunk drives on alcohol he sells, he is in no way connected. Pregnancy takes the effort of two individuals to create that outcome all. So the only way your scenario is comparable is if they were both behind the wheel, or the seller was feeding alcohol to someone behind the wheel while he was also in the car and then was surprised when they got in an accident.

And yes I'm going to repeat this again, men control their sperm. They're not being held hostage being forced to put it somewhere they don't want to. They actively choose where, so they need to be responsible for where it goes. It's a team effort. There is no excuse on why they should not be. It's easy, the only reason you don't want to be is because you can't be bothered. And that is childish

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have not failed to address it

If you have, you've done a bad job.

I've addressed it multiple times.

Very poorly then.

I've acknowledged pregnancy happens to the woman. I'm not saying she doesn't have responsibility.

Those are not responses.

I even gave the example of myself taking pills as my form of responsibility over creating pregnancy.

Not a response to the argument.

You are failing to read correctly if you have not realized I have addressed this.

You haven't responded enough to take the conversation forward logically.

I simply do not agree with the fact you believe men have no responsibility.

Disagreeing is not a response that can further the conversation.

You have to show WHY women, who are the ones who get pregnant, are NOT responsible 100% for the state of their own bodies. Simply asserting that they aren't merely because they have to get the sperm from somewhere is not going to cover it, especially since you conceded that sex is not consent to have children.

This all relates to my analogy I used to show you a point you seem to be missing: You can't go back to the clerk and have him do half the time and pay half the damages simply for supplying you with the alcohol you used to go drinking and driving, which caused damage and body counts. This is why that analogy is so good to show my points.

If pregnancy happens to you, then you are responsible for it. It doesn't happen to anyone else but you. It's your body. How you get the sperm is irrelevant insofar as responsibility for your own body is concerned. "Oh, you had sex with me! Therefore I'm not really fully responsible for this pregnancy"... is just a weird statement. Since sex is not consent to have children, then no.

This is the hardship you must overcome. Think of a real response instead of just repeating yourself.

Men have responsibility for their bodies and what it creates and where it goes. And women the same. So it's a shared responsibility. No logical way around that.

You keep repeating yourself. You talk of logic, yet you aren't using it. I've responded to this.

How about you take a crack at responding to the above and I won't keep responding to the same, old, tired, shitty points you keep repeating of which I've already responded to?

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh come on I'm done 😂 you try to devalue with aiming I'm repeating, ignoring what I say and demanding I respond to things. Learn how to have an educated discussion without the easy outs.

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yea, after I push you to respond to a specific point you keep avoiding, you can't handle it anymore. Understood.

This is typically how things happen - when faced with this side of the argument, when pushed, they run.

you try to devalue with aiming I'm repeating, ignoring what I say and demanding I respond to things

Yup, I pushed a very good point that you have always avoided. But don't feel so bad - they ALL avoid that point. It's like kryptonite.

Learn how to have an educated discussion without the easy outs.

Looks like you're talking about yourself.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I haven't avoided any topics, you just ignore what I say, don't see it, or claim it's shitty. So you're too hard headed to have a reasonable discussion.

You have no good points. Women do have 100% control over their bodies, you are trying to erase mens control over their bodies.

Be more clever and use your own words, don't use mine for another easy out :)

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I haven't avoided any topics,

I JUST pushed you to respond to one, and then you said you're out. WTF is wrong with you? Do you deny reality? Are you a typical women who avoids responsibility and accountability?

you just ignore what I say

I'm the one who pushed you for a response and you didn't give one.

or claim it's shitty

Believe it or not, just because you GAVE some type of response doesn't mean it wasn't shitty. Maybe in life you're used to saying something and guys/people tend to back you, doesn't mean it's going to happen here on Reddit.

You have no good points.

I'm still waiting for you to reply to my last point. I don't care what you think of my points. I want you to respond to what I asked.

All you're doing is attacking me and avoiding content.

Women do have 100% control over their bodies

We're getting somewhere....

...you are trying to erase mens control over their bodies.

Men have control over their own bodies, but they do not get pregnant.

I'm waiting to hear how someone is supposed to be responsible for someone else's body and what they do with it... e.g. How are men responsible for a woman's body? Don't the doctors say it's her body and she does what she wants?

Be more clever and use your own words, don't use mine for another easy out :)

You're in no position to give advice. You are, however, supposed to reply.. but since you said you're done, I guess we won't get one.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

My response to her below comment:

Okay ya im definitely done. You clearly don't respect me in this conversation.

OH YOU DON'T RESPECT MEEEEEEE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yea, because "respecting you" is completely necessary for you to respond to a question, eh?

I'm not having a discussion with an illogical woman hating incel.

Oh look! I'm being called an incel!

I guess sex is the only unit of measure you can comprehend in a person.

Pathetic.

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Okay ya im definitely done. You clearly don't respect me in this conversation. I'm not having a discussion with an illogical woman hating incel.

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Also I agree sex is not consent to children. But if you are arguing it's her property once it's in her body, then in no situation does a man have any parental rights at all. Doesn't matter if he wants it or not. It literally makes no sense.

[–]WillCuckSmith2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Also I agree sex is not consent to children.

Good. Then you see the problem we're in.

But if you are arguing it's her property once it's in her body, then in no situation does a man have any parental rights at all.

Unless he wanted to have the child. It really depends.

Doesn't matter if he wants it or not. It literally makes no sense.

It all has to do with intentions.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No you cannot say that. Either it's her property or it's not. Intentions don't matter. I don't see how you can magically claim that the sperm now turned child is immediately his property again now that its out of her body. That is erasing all responsibility the man has in creating the child and only giving that responsibility back to him if he'd like it.

It doesn't work like that.

[–]Constant-Equipment301 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you want to avoid pregnancy, talk to both parties involved in creating a pregnancy.

You keep telling me I'm ignoring points and repeating myself to devalue my argument but it's not working. Your argument cannot be won with logic because in no logical scenario is only the woman responsible for falling pregnant.

[–]WillCuckSmith1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you want to avoid pregnancy, talk to both parties involved in creating a pregnancy.

Listen buddy, are you female or something?

You can't rely on "talking". Not sure why you think you can, insofar as getting the man rights. That's another story.

Basically, we should, as a society, acknowledge that pregnancy is 100% the woman's responsibility and not make the man pay for a child if he never consented to having children with said female.

"Talking" is not an answer.

You keep telling me I'm ignoring points and repeating myself to devalue my argument but it's not working.

You're either ignoring points I've made or you think you've responded to them when you have not.

Your argument cannot be won with logic because in no logical scenario is only the woman responsible for falling pregnant.

Logic states that it is 100% her responsibility since it is her body. We are all responsible for what we do to our bodies. This should be common sense.

[–]Constant-Equipment300 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You said talk to the woman...my response was talk to both parties. Now talking isn't the answer?

And I mentioned I was on pills and you didn't realize I'm a woman? So you really aren't reading what I say.

Logic says it takes two to create a pregnancy, it takes two to be responsible for one. A man is responsible for his sperm. Again, you cannot logically argue that a woman controls and owns his sperm. So no, it's not common sense, you just want to have sex without any responsibility.

[–]xXAngelsXx 4 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

So you just wanna let men have fun and leave all the hard parts of sex to the women? What happened to equality? ‘Men can only assist’ literally isn’t true, you can get pregnant with just a woman and both parties need to consent.

Also why is it JUST the woman’s responsibility to find a responsible partner? If a woman gets pregnant and wants the man to pay child support because neither of them used protection that’s BOTH their faults, not just the man or not just the woman.

If both sides had responsible safe sex there wouldn’t be any problems.

The more I browse this sub the more I realise you lot just dislike women. You all make me sick.

You claim feminism is about women over men then you comment/ support shit like this and you blame women for literally everything, take some responsibility.

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So you just wanna let men have fun and leave all the hard parts of sex to the women?

Biology is biology. If men had a certain state of their body they had to monitor to prevent it from doing something they did not want, they'd have to do some "hard parts" too. It's part of the responsibility of taking care of your own body. It's having accountability for your actions.

What happened to equality?

You won't get anywhere with this. We are talking about biology and self responsibility and accountability.

‘Men can only assist’ literally isn’t true, you can get pregnant with just a woman and both parties need to consent.

This was written poorly. Did not understand. Yes, the men can assist with the responsibility of preventing pregnancy, but it's still 100% the woman's.

Also why is it JUST the woman’s responsibility to find a responsible partner?

Why wouldn't it be? It's for her, is it not?

If a woman gets pregnant and wants the man to pay child support because neither of them used protection that’s BOTH their faults, not just the man or not just the woman.

Sex is not consent to have children. Pregnancy is something she controls and therefore is on her whether it is ever born or even kept. He can't have responsibility without choice.

The more I browse this sub the more I realise you lot just dislike women.

Nothing I've said is about "disliking women". That's just reaching.

You all make me sick.

You're using your emotions instead of logic and reason. That's your problem.

You claim feminism is about women over men then you comment/ support shit like this and you blame women for literally everything, take some responsibility.

Try using logic and reason instead of emotion. You'll get further and you won't have weird ideas like the one above.

[–]xXAngelsXx 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Sex is literally for both people idk what you don’t understand about that. Both people are ‘’accountable for their actions’’ because they both contributed to creating the child. If society/ the law thought like you woman would literally not want to have casual sex. It’s people like you that say this shit then complain they don’t get laid. Why would a woman want to have sex if it could result in them getting pregnant and being entirely blamed for it, even if they were safe and used protection. You’re acting like men are brainless creatures that can’t be responsible for anything. Both parties should use protection and both should be responsible for what happens after that.

Also it’s clear you’re just some typical Redditor with a massive superiority complex because ‘I can use logic and you can’t’. There’s nothing wrong with having empathy and emotions, you should try it sometime :)

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sex is literally for both people idk what you don’t understand about that.

Sex is not the topic. Procreation is. Pregnancy is. Sex is not consent to have children.

Both people are ‘’accountable for their actions’’ because they both contributed to creating the child.

Men only donate sperm. Women are the ones who choose to get pregnant, get pregnant and carry it to term, and keep it or not. Men have no say. Thus, they have no responsibility. Pregnancy happens to the woman, not the man. This is key.

I don't see how you can ever hope to argue against that.

If society/ the law thought like you woman would literally not want to have casual sex.

They would, they would just have more accountability and responsibility for their actions. If child support was opt-in only, which it should be, you'd see a lot less women with the "oops" happening.

A lot less men's lives would be destroyed against their wishes, too.

Women would still be having sex - they would just not be able to offload their responsibility using magical means anymore.

It’s people like you that say this shit then complain they don’t get laid.

I've had hundreds of women in my life. Getting laid isn't a problem. Having sex is not the only unit of measurement in someone's life, believe it or not.

Why would a woman want to have sex if it could result in them getting pregnant and being entirely blamed for it, even if they were safe and used protection

Because she will take better precautions and know that the bucks stops with her, as it should. It's pretty simple stuff.

You’re acting like men are brainless creatures that can’t be responsible for anything

We can't be responsible for what someone else does with their bodies if we have no say. Don't go to extreme where it does not pertain.

Seems like you're using your emotion instead of logic still.

Both parties should use protection and both should be responsible for what happens after that.

The woman can demand it if she's having sex. However, his actions to comply is required to have sex and helps her with her responsibility of pregnancy. It's not his responsibility. I've said this already.

Also it’s clear you’re just some typical Redditor with a massive superiority complex

Seems like you're just repeating yourself and personally attacking people instead of contending with the content of their posts.

[–]xXAngelsXx 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I've had hundreds of women in my life

lol

[–]WillCuckSmith 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just responding to the point.

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There is something called a "Femi-dom" its the only non hormon based option. It's basically a condom that goes inside the women instead of on the man.

[–]JacketDapper944 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not the only non-hormonal option, and it’s less effective than it’s male counterpart.

[–]wineblood 38 points39 points40 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Don't go in raw. Rubber up or rub her up.

[–]MazelToving -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Don't have sex before marriage. Rubbers can break

[–]wineblood 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Don't go outside, covid is still a thing.

[–]MazelToving -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The libs have made Covid into a cult that preaches it is more dangerous than it actually is.

You are more likely to get a woman pregnant every time you have sex than Covid every time you go out. And a pregnancy is a blessing from God. Illness isn't

[–]Looking_For_Someone8 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]MazelToving 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Comment history says you are a desperate wannabe sexual degenerate. Glass houses and all.

[–]Constant-Equipment30 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can carry that little blessing from God in your body.

[–]6teeee9 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

does marriage change peoples minds about not wanting kids?

[–]MazelToving -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If they don't want kids they shouldn't marry or have sex. Marriage is an agreement under God to start a family.

[–]Constant-Equipment30 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unless you're not religious lmao

[–]6teeee9 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

but not everyone believes in that and if its only for that then why are marriages a legal thing too and divorces are settled through court and not in a church??

[–]MazelToving 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't always get divorced in a court. You have to go to a priest to get a marriage annulled. If you go through a court and not the church you are still technically married and living in fornication if you "marry" someone else.

[–]SaltShakeGrinder -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

but raw feels good

[–]ItisCrazey 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

BuT rAw fEeLs gOoD

You heard them. Rubber up or don't have sex

Don't expect someone to take on hormones that changes their whole system just because "it feels better"

Or get a vasectomy

[–]kit-kat315 24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago* (32 children) | Copy Link

Well, the whole "don't have sex if you don't want kids" shtick does get pretty old.

Most people want to have sex and only want a couple of kids, max. No surprise there. Using birth control in no way means you don't have a quality partner, or that you don't want to have kids with them at some point. I've been on the pill for years because I've already had a kid with my partner and don't want another (and neither does he).

Ngl, being on the pill really sucks sometimes, especially the nausea. It seems like we could have come up with something better in the past 70 years.

[–]SquishedPears 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

My wife was on the pill. It made her mean and selfish and almost destroyed our marriage. Every BC medicine she tried changed her personality significantly and for the worse.

I agree with you and am totally for BC, I just want to spread awareness. Ask your partner, family, and friends if you have had a significant change in personality or perceived happiness since taking the BC. If so, maybe a vasectomy is a good option.

[–]kit-kat315 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I've been on the pill since I was 17...longer than I've had my husband. But I never had any serious mood effects from birth control

My biggest gripe is the nausea the hormones can cause. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but I still have some queasy mornings.

[–]SquishedPears 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh, good. I am glad to hear it works well for you.

Do you have any ways that you reduce the nausea? And why not do something more permanent, like tubal ligation or a vasectomy?

I'm just curious, not critical.

[–]kit-kat315 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. It's too bad it didn't work well for your wife. Hormones can have wonky side effects.

Taking the pill in the early evening helps, because I usually sleep through any nausea. And my body's gotten more used to the hormones over time.

I'm not keen on an unnecessary surgery, and my gyn thinks I should stay on the pill to regulate my periods. It helps decrease ovarian cancer and that runs in my family.

Also, my husband is likely infertile (or mostly so) from chemo. Combined with the pill it's nearly guaranteed effective.

[–]SquishedPears 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, I see.

I am sorry to hear that. I hope you and your husband live long, happy lives. Cancer takes the best people and makes you watch as they suffer. I know the hurt and rollercoaster of emotions: hopes and fears.

It is unfortunate for my wife that she cannot be on birth control because she gets cysts on her ovaries and the birth control would also keep them from growing. So, she is in a lot of pain during her period. As soon as we finish having kids she wants to get the whole thing ripped out. What's funny is that we tried so hard to not have kids when we were younger, started dating at 14, only to find out that she is nearly infertile and likely always was.

[–]kit-kat315 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's issues- hope that gets better for her.

Luckily my husband is cancer free for several years now, but treatment was rough. It was suggested he freeze samples before his treatment if we wanted more children, but we were happy with the one child we already had.

[–]AriaBellaPancake 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IRT something like tubal litigation, it can be hard to get a doctor to sign off on it. Some will be easier to work with than others, but generally speaking there's a lot of concern over if the patient will regret having it done.

Depending on the doctor and the reasons for it (medical vs disinterest in children) you could talk with them about it and get there or you could very well be facing off with a brick wall, lol.

[–]Gameperson700 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I’ve heard of the pills causing blood clots and killing some women. It honestly makes me worried That if I decide to use them, they may cause problems. I’m aware that women have more birth control options, but that doesn’t mean they work well. I’ve heard of IUDs hurting women too. Women’s condoms are also not used often for multiple reasons including the fact that they’re more expensive and can’t be found in retailers. They also just look way harder to put on than male condoms. Honestly I’m glad that there’s more research going into mens contraceptives.

[–]kit-kat315 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The pill increases the chance of blood clots, but it's still a very small risk. Especially in nonsmoking, active women with healthy body weight. To put it in perspective, the side effects of the pill are still much less dangerous than the side effects of pregnancy.

[–]Gameperson700 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True.

[–]Abstract_Knight -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok. That still doesn't explain why r_/nothowgirlswork thinks the way of thinking about this is cringe. I mean, if instead, they decide to use a condom, the chance of it breaking is still not that low, so you need someone to take care of you if that happens.

[–]kit-kat315 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The "don't have sex if you don't want kids" mentality is cringe. And the implication that because she's on bc, she must not see her boyfriend as good enough to have a kid with.

Overall, the tone is very condescending. Presented as his own beliefs without judging others, it wouldn't be cringe.

[–]Abstract_Knight -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

👍(that was my point)

[–]MazelToving -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

"Most people" are violating the teachings of the Roman Catholic church and are thus facing the repercussions of their sin. You should only be having sex in the context of marriage and if you hit a point in that marriage where you no longer have kids you should stop having sex. Sex isn't a requirement to live a healthy life. That's something sexual degenerates invented.

[–]kit-kat315 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Catholic teachings are really only a concern for Catholics, though.

Sex isn't necessary for health, but it certainly helps. Mental and physical benefits are well documented. Also, there's a strong correlation between sexual activity and overall satisfaction in a marriage or relationship. With effective contraceptives, there's very little reason not to have sex on a regular basis.

[–]MazelToving -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Contraceptives sometimes don't work. I had a friend that was conceived when both contraception and a condom was used.

You also don't know in today's society if a partner can be faithful unless you are married. This introduces STDs as a risk factor. Feminism is a byproduct of a wider problem of sexual degeneracy.

[–]kit-kat315 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

True, contraceptives sometimes fail. But the solution is to have a back up plan, not to avoid sex altogether.

Unfortunately, marriage doesn't guarantee fidelity either. Everyone should practice safe sex practices in accordance with their level of trust/exclusivity with their partner. And be checked for STDs immediately if they suspect a partner has been unfaithful.

[–]MazelToving 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know why I'm humoring contraceptives anyway. Just like abortion they are immoral because they prohibit a life from being formed. The purpose of sex is to create life and having it for other reasons leads to societies such as ours.

Everybody in a relationship thinks they can trust their partner. Under marriage there are actual consequences for infidelity keeping the partners in check (losing in the divorce).

[–]kit-kat315 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know why I'm humoring contraceptives anyway

Only you can answer that. I clearly disagree with you re: morality, but comments like yours remind me how glad I am to be living in a secular society. I don't want people imposing their religious beliefs on me and I'm happy to repay the favor.

The main consequence for cheating in any relationship is loss of the relationship itself. If I ever found out my husband wasn't cheating because of financial considerations he'd be kicked to the curb faster than you can say "divorce." As should anyone with a shred of dignity.

[–]SquishedPears 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

"most people" don't ACTUALLY care about their religion. Add the atheists to the once-a-year church goers and most of the United States doesn't care about what the Bible thinks is sinning. Even most people who do believe that don't care very much.

I noticed this stark contrast escaping the religious cult I was born into, which was as strict as you say. Most people don't care as much as they pretend to, though.

[–]MazelToving 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You are right about that and It's a shame. We need to work on culturally reversing this. Lack of reverence for religion led to things like the feminist movement.

[–]SquishedPears 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Religion led to things like the dark ages...

I think we need to move past religion and build a morality based on simple principles and minimize the harm of perfectly natural things like premarital sex. There is a good reason premarital sex is frowned upon in religion, but we have much more control now and the harm is reduced significantly.

Edit: I realize my comment comes off as rude, my apologies. I do mean that we have a secular society and that we cannot and should not use the rules of religion to govern society. Punishment for actions that harm others and harm reduction should be the goal of society. Religion may inform other parts of an individual's morality.

[–]MazelToving -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What is the source of morality if not God?

Assuming for a second God does not exist the feminists would be right because the US government is the biggest might and supports the feminist agenda.

And the fall of Rome led to the dark ages not religion.

[–]SquishedPears 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There are many sources of morality, just not objective morality.

In order for you to prove that God is the source of morality you need to 1. prove God exists, 2. prove that God only speaks the truth, 3. prove that God actually said these things.

The morality of an animal species usually comes from survival mechanisms brought about by social nature. This is why chimps may share their food. We live in a complex society and the social rules are muddied by variations in the genetic makeup of people. If there were no psychopaths, some rules wouldn't need to be stated. We must then use reason to a morality. Not an objective one, but one that is at least self consistent, having no contradictions.

[–]MazelToving -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Look into Fatima if you never have and the related miracle of the sun. I don't find the secular explanation for the miracle convincing so I became a Catholic. It proves all 3 points in my eyes. If I simply try to argue them here we will go way off course.

We shouldn't behave strictly by our evolutionary instinct. God gave us a soul and a yearning to seek him. We need a higher set of values. We already have a moral system with no contradictions and it is the Catechism. The Catechism leaves zero room for feminist interpretation and when enforced as law leaves zero room for feminism occuring again in that society (without a regime change).

[–]SquishedPears 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol, don't get me wrong. Animal societies are not strictly about instinct. There are logical, cognitive processes that lead animal societies in one or another direction. For example, if a chimp makes his way to the top of the hierarchy by being a bully, then a group of weaker chimps gang up on the big chimp and kill him. Murder in a society of chimps is certainly wrong, but in the case of a tyrant maybe murder is justified BECAUSE it benefits the society for a chimp law to be 'you can only kill another chimp when all the chimps agree that the leader is tyrannical and corrupt'. That requires no God.

I do not believe in God, nor do I disbelieve in God. I can't say. I do know, however, that God is not required to run a country in a fair way.

[–]MazelToving 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that only suggests "instinct" in humans is a much broader thing than we assume. It's human instinct that murder is wrong. The vast majority of humans intrinsically know it without having to be taught. It also just might be human instinct to rise up against oppression (whether real or perceived)

[–]AriaBellaPancake 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean I know the whole point of religion is that you believe your God or belief system is the ultimate truth, but you must understand that's not a compelling argument for anyone that doesn't already agree with you.

[–]MazelToving 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's already recorded proof the Catholic God exists. The miracle of the sun at Fatima

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I already made an agreement with my boyfriend that he will get a vasectomy. I probably will stay in the pill or something similar because my body can't handle my periods on it's own for some reason (doctors Haven't figured out why because the pill works smh)

[–]Jarrett2255434 26 points27 points28 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The irony of this is that the sub is called "NotHowGirlsWork", even though when you nut inside a chick with no protection, (condoms, birth control, morning after pill etc) her getting pregnant, unless she's infertile or there wasn't enough sperm, is exactly what will happen.

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are other ways (for both) to prevent a pregnancy. The thing is that the girl in the vidoe explained what effect the pill had on her. That she probably wasn't feeling well and changed in behavior or had a different experience with her period.

The comment just shows that they didn't understand what this was about. It wasn't about her not wanting to use protection on herself but expects guys to use a condom but rather that not everyone can use the same protection.

There are so many other ways to prevent a pregnancy

For example for man a vasectomy or a condom (both hormone free) and a newer one where you wear special underwear that keeps your balls inside you which way you are infertile for some time (but its not very popular yet due to testing)

For women a Femi-dom, IUD (which has to be changed every few years and it feels like going into labor putting it in and removing it) or getting the eggs removed (which takes more than a vasectomy and cant be reversed as far as I know)

And the rest is hormone based stuff like the pill.

[–]xXAngelsXx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The girl literally used protection though? What are you talking about.

[–]SpongeBrainz 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this guy, I saw something simliar like this months ago on r / niceguys that some woman posted and made a mockery of him. I commented on it saying I agree with the fellow and explained why he is in the right. I immediately got down voted to oblivion and called a "pick me" girl. Ffs, I am sure alot of women outside of reddit or women that don't spend so much time on the internet - would've agreed with that man.

Then again, I could be wrong though. I know alot of women that have slept around, got pregnant by "accident" and thank the universe that they had a miscarriage or able to abort. It's disgusting. Plus, I know women who don't have protected sex and get pregnant, then they expect the poor dad who had no clue that she wasn't protected, to pay child support and be involved with the kid.

Best to just not hookup with anyone, in my honest opinion.

[–]Abstract_Knight 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm pretty sure that most of feminist subs usually just expect men to just take care over this kind of things and at the same time they expect men to not be careful about this because otherwise all the "men bad" just doesn't apply lmao.

Anyway, it's good to see someone that understands.

[–]ItisCrazey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

r/nothowgirlswork is not a feminist sub. It's about how people don't know how the female body works.

In this example how the pill changes your hormone household and that there are other ways for women and men to prevent a pregnancy

Men: Vasectomy, Condom or (this is still experimental tho) underwear that makes you infertile for a while if worn 8-12h a day

Women: Getting their eggs cut out (sorry don't know the term not a native speaker here), Femi-dom, IUD or hormones (which come in different ways)

[–]Alien_honey 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I would say that taking birth control is reasonable. It may be the case that they aren't ready for kids right now and it's better to not bring kids into a world where the parents are making it up as they go. If you're going to have sex you have to weigh out the pros and cons of however you choose to go about it and I hope it.

[–]ItisCrazey 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The thing is that the girl in the video probably explained that she wasn't feeling well and noticed a change in her behavior or had a different experience with her period. It's not Anti-Birth-Controll.

There are so other ways to prevent a pregnancy

For man a vasectomy or a condom (both hormone free) and a newer one where you wear special underwear that keeps your balls inside you which way you are infertile for some time (but its not very popular yet due to testing)

For woman a Femi-dom, IUD (which has to be changed every few years and it feels like going into labor putting it in and removing it) or getting the eggs removed (which takes more than a vasectomy and cant be reversed as far as I know)

And the rest is hormone based stuff like the pill.

[–]JacketDapper944 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The non hormonal iud stays in for 10 years. It’s only the plastic ones with low levels of hormones that have to be changed every 3-5 years.

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh okay good to know. But the pain is there no matter what

[–]YeeyMyMeat 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This is a terrible take and I don’t care if I get bent over for saying it. The ‘don’t have sex if you don’t want kids’ thing is dumb as fuck. If you want to have sex, use a rubber or take a pill. That’s that. Everyone saying ‘I’d never have sex unless I wanted a child’ is confusing whether they would with they can

[–]Abstract_Knight -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What about women that doesn't want the pill? And instead they only use condoms?

The take of this guy is still valid, mostly because of the risk of an unwanted pregnancy.

[–]ItisCrazey 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What about men who don't want a condom and only want women on the pill?

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What about women that doesn't want the pill?

That's their choice and right. The men they choose to have sex with are not in anyway responsible for the choices women make.

And instead they only use condoms?

Please tell me why so many women dont ever insist that the men they choose to have sex with use a condom? At very least it can minimise the risks of getting an STD...

The take of this guy is still valid, mostly because of the risk of an unwanted pregnancy.

The only person that risks and decides if there will or will not be an unwanted pregnancy is the one that can get pregnant. Last time I checked that isn't the male of the species human.


Women have fought for decades to be viewed as equal to men, and now they need to start taking on some of the responsibility that comes with that equality.

[–]YeeyMyMeat 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So that’s their choice? The comment says verbatim ‘ it always made me wonder what triggers women to get into a relationship or to sleep with someone if they’re not ready for kids?’ Being not ready for kids doesn’t equal not ready for sex. Absolutely if you fall pregnant that’s your responsibility, but similarly, the no sex attitude has been proven to lead to higher levels of STDs and teen pregnancy. It’s a flawed argument.

[–]AriaBellaPancake 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So, are y'all entirely unaware that Birth Control is also used to prevent menstrual pain and treat some hormonal issues?

Personally I don't agree with the whole "don't have sex if you don't want a kid" thing but there's no point in arguing that considering how issues of morality and such differ from person to person.

But birth control is very much medicine. It's the first thing prescribed for women that have PCOS, Endometriosis, among other issues. I, personally, take a daily BC pill because I've experienced pretty extreme pain my whole life due to such issues. Without BC, I wouldn't be able to work and support myself, and I started taking it when I was not only single but pretty much a shut in! Lol

So yeah, very misinformed stuff. Bad side effects with birth control is a huge problem for women who use it to manage health conditions.

[–]ItisCrazey -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There are other ways (for both) to prevent a pregnancy.

For example for man a vasectomy, a condom (both hormone free) and one where you wear special underwear that makes you infertile for some time (but its still in testing)

For women a Femi-dom, IUD (which has to be changed every few years and it feels like going into labor putting it in and removing it) or getting the eggs removed (which takes more than a vasectomy and cant be reversed as far as I know)

And the rest is hormone based stuff like the pill.

Ofcourse it can prevent Periode pain (lessen it) But it can also damage your body immensely especially if given the wrong pill

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There are other ways (for both) to prevent a pregnancy.

Please tell me who it is that get's pregnant as a result of sex.

Please tell me why the one who dosen't and cant get pregnant as a result of sex, has the control and ability to decide what happens in the other persons body as a result of having sex with the other person?

It's funny how "my body, my choice" never applies to women when they're having sex and risking pregnancy. It's always down to the men they have sex with 'getting them pregnant'...

Women have fought for decades to be viewed as equal to men, and now they need to start taking on some of the responsibility that comes with that equality.


Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

respectfully disagree.

the message itself isn’t necessarily worthy of negativity (note i did not say criticism, all ideas can and should be criticized) but their tone, at least in the first half of the comment, is fairly condescending, which was completely unnecessary. this just opened the door to causing a fight, which just makes things worse.

as for the message itself, i still disagree. most people want to and will have sex with people without the intent of having a child. i’m a gay guy, and guess what? i have sex most days of the week because it’s an enjoyable activity. it’s unreasonable to ask everyone in society to not have sex with people they wouldn’t want a child with, because a lot of people don’t want a child (at least not yet) even if they are married to someone they would be willing to have a child with. a lot of people have a high sex drive, it’s naturally engraved in us anyways, so it wouldn’t be feasible for most people to only have sex with a select type of person.

besides, this person is criticizing a valid, safe and effective method to prevent pregnancy. granted, we don’t have any proof that the title is an accurate description of the original video, so there may be an unseen context that validates this comment, so i can’t say for sure that i’m correct.

there’s my tedtalk, feel free to respectfully debate me and i’ll probably respond and maybe change my views. if you’re an asshole, you’ll probably regret it.

[–]SquishedPears 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said. I made a similar comment, albeit less coherently, probably because it was late and I was high, and expected a bunch of backlash. Surprisingly, it seems like the feelings are mixed in this sub.

The reactions to my comments have been respectful and non-aggressive, which really gives me hope for this movement. I am constantly worried that this movement will fracture into 100 different sub-movements all infighting, which is what feminism did, but I am continually surprised by the etiquette on these subs. Good job us

[–]CreativeMind1999 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t agree. I bet 90% of people on this Earth, both men and women don’t have sex for procreation. I think this is a bit too deep.

[–]Abstract_Knight 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

According to the post the girl on the video was complaining about the damage of pills and that kind of things.

The guy on the comments said that if you don't want that then go and have sex with someone that won't abandon you if something goes wrong (like a broken condom). My problem is that this sub thinks that just the fact of having this opinion is cringe. (They labeled it with [Cringe])

[–]pianofucker345 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some people want sex for pleasure

[–]HumanNumber348 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

“Hey, this medication has these side effects, which kinda sucks.”

How could anyone be offended by that? Lol.

[–]Abstract_Knight -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

YTguy: "Hey try avoiding it"

NHGW: "oH tHiS gUy iS sO cRiNgE"

Me: "why is it cringe?"

[–]AChromaticHeavn 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This is the first time I can recall ever seeing a man make the statement of thought "if I don't want to take care of her/a child, there's no sex happening". Kudos to the dude for having that sort of forethought, because most men I've met, don't think further than maybe a month into the future.

[–]Abstract_Knight 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is pretty much why i think there's nothing wrong about what he said, he just tried to show a pov from the men's perspective on this.

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

because most men I've met, don't think further than maybe a month into the future.

Well that's purely and solely down to all the men you choose to associate with ins't it?

Or are you claiming that all men on this little blue dot are like all the men you have ever met?


I am still trying and waiting for any/all feminists to define feminism for me without using sexist anti-male stereotypes.

[–]AChromaticHeavn 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

my dude, please calm down, No need to get all prickly at me. You're getting a tad defensive over something so small. Just because I have tits doesn't mean I think or act like a girl (most of the time I don't). I don't make generalized blanket statements, and I don't assume anything about anyone on this blue dot. You sir, are making assumptions of me that are untrue.

I'm curious how old you are. Your language reads as more mature than not. Older men tend to be more cautious and jaded, whereas younger men sometimes are still unable to curb their testosterone down to a dull roar. Generally speaking, I tend to associate with younger men, but then again, damn near every guy I meet is younger than me. (Not much option there for how many trips I've made around the sun.

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

my dude, please calm down

I'm quite calm...

No need to get all prickly at me.

🤣🤣🤣

You're getting a tad defensive over something so small.

Really? Care to tell me what I have to be defensive about?

I'll wait.

Just because I have tits doesn't mean I think or act like a girl (most of the time I don't).

You're acting like a girl' here. EOS.

I don't make generalized blanket statements,

Yeah you do, and are.

and I don't assume anything about anyone on this blue dot.

Yes you do and have [quote] * because most men I've met, don't think further than maybe a month into the future.* [end quote]

You sir, are making assumptions of me that are untrue.

Then you need to retract the statements you posted here in r/antifeminists that led me to make those assumptions about you.

I'm curious how old you are.

Relevance?

Your language reads as more mature than not. Older men tend to be more cautious and jaded,

What was it you were denying again? Why yes that you dont make generalised blanket statements

whereas younger men sometimes are still unable to curb their testosterone down to a dull roar.

Not only generalised blanket statements, you have to throw in some sexism and misandry as well. How feminist of you to behave that way...

Generally speaking, I tend to associate with younger men,

And this is something I need to know because?????

Clue for you, I dont care who you choose to associate with, it's what you say about them and why that's being discussed here, not who they are.


It's time we nailed the coffin shut on the ridiculous assertation that 50% of the population should automatically be trusted at face value for no other reason than they're female.

[–]Abstract_Knight 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you use a condom there's a chance that it breaks, if that happens you're automatically forced to pay for the baby if the girl decides to keep the children.

If a women doesn't want to use these things, then what he said is an option, an option that this guy actually uses.

This guy said nothing wrong, he literally just said his point of view, the option he uses and the responsabilities it takes.

[–]WillCuckSmith 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you use a condom there's a chance that it breaks, if that happens you're automatically forced to pay for the baby if the girl decides to keep the children.

Yup, this is complete BS.

We keep hearing about woman's ability to choose when to be a parent, when to have that responsibility...but no, men aren't given that ability to choose. They all think we shouldn't! It's insane.

[–]agressive_commenter 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How dare he use his brain 😡

[–]Toran_dantai 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“Collage kids need free condoms, because common sense ain’t that common”

[–]jackedclown_1 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Bro if you think childern are a gift from God and not the result of unprotected sex, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I wanna sell to you

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the opposite, it don't wanna have children unless i become millionaire or the world somehow reduces its population drastically or something like that.

It's just that i don't understand why that sub wants to show the comment as something horrible when is just an opinion.

[–]soapyraen 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol

[–]TheBeardedAntt 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This guy isn’t having sex, that’s for sure.

[–]SquishedPears 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I hate feminism, it's cancer. Now don't ban me like feminist subs for disagreeing with this initially.

I don't think we should just dismiss the effects of birth control on women, nor should we remove the option of birth control. I think we need to expand the options of birth control so that both sexes can completely determine their reproduction while enjoying sexual relationships.

Is there something I am missing?

[–]maxlvb 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Obviously...

FYI:

If women dont want to get pregnant then they can just use:

  • A cap

  • The Combined pill

  • A contraceptive implant

  • A contraceptive injection

  • A contraceptive patch

  • A Diaphragm

  • A female condom

  • Get a tubal ligation

  • Or, just do what they so often demand men do, just not have sex and keep their legs closed.

“Justice therefore dictates that if a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support. Or, put another way, autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choices.”

Karen DeCrow feminist lawyer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_DeCrow


If women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.

Elizabeth Brake, political philosopher


Feminists feel the same way about forced parenthood responsibilities as they feel about forced genital mutilation. As long as it's not happening to women, they don't care.

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

+IUD

Cap and Diaphram aren't very safe tho

The problem is that most of it is hormone based which some women just can't handle because it makes them extremely uncomfortable and sometimes even sick.

Men can also get a vasectomy or jsut use a condom tho.

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Cap and Diaphram aren't very safe tho

A lot of things aren't always 100% safe. That doesn't mean you shouldn't/cant do/use them though...

The problem is that most of it is hormone based which some women just can't handle because it makes them extremely uncomfortable and sometimes even sick.

Then they should follow the advice so often given to men. Dont want to risk pregnancy/a child? Dont have sex/keep your legs closed.

It's funny if so many women (not just feminists) immediately have a hissy fit about that sage advice and claim it's denying them their rights, that it's their body, their choice, when they're told to do the very thing that they/you insist men have to do...

Men can also get a vasectomy or jsut use a condom tho.

Really? Women can get a tubal litigation, and use many birth control methods to prevent pregnancy.

Why dont you tell me why men have to be responsible for any/every woman's choice about risking pregnancy? After all it's NOT men that get pregnant as a result of having sex is it.

Women have fought for decades to be viewed as equal to men, and now they need to start taking on some of the responsibility that comes with that equality.


I am still trying and waiting for any/all feminists to define feminism for me without using sexist anti-male stereotypes.

[–]SquishedPears -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

First, thank you for this great information.

I already did disagree with the idea that a man should pay child support for a child they did not want and did not have a choice in maintaining the fetuses life. It is nice to see that older, more respectable feminists have brains.

I still don't think many of those other things help that much, though. All of the chemical birth controls have side effects that are almost always negative. One is actual surgery. A few are a nuisance. And the final one is absurd. If they don't have sex, then we don't have sex, which sounds like a lose-lose tbh.

My wife tried every chemical BC and had terrible side effects, had an allergic response to the implant, and is allergic to latex. Her options were limited to surgery or non-latex condoms. Condoms are way less effective than hormonal BC and the probability of getting pregnant during the fertile window while using a condom is about 2%. My wife is most attractive to me when she's fertile, because biology, so I would say about half of our sex is when she is fertile. Overall, then, there is a 1% chance she gets pregnant while I use a condom. This means that after having sex 100 time, we should expect a pregnancy. That's one year of having sex twice a week. That isn't really that much... The chemical BC is really, really effective. You would expect 1 pregnancy in like 100 years. And yes, these statistics reflect human error, which is good, because we are humans that are prone to error.

I champion BC of all sorts and push for male birth controls so that we have the same agency with the same effectiveness.

[–]kit-kat315 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Your statistics on contraceptive effectiveness don't seem right. Condoms have a typical failure rate of 13% and oral contraceptives have a typical failure rate of 7%. Which means 13 out of 100 women using condoms will become pregnant in a given year and 7/100 will on the pill.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/index.htm#:~:text=Permanent%20Methods%20of%20Birth%20Control&text=This%20method%20is%20effective%20immediately,use%20failure%20rate%3A%200.5%25.

[–]Qantourisc 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

according to a U.S. News & World Report -> a child costs $267 000 (We will half that assuming 50/50 support)

So
$17 335 per year with a condom (and no abortion)
$9 345 per year with pill (and no abortion)
$1 214 per year with pill and condom (and no abortion)

[–]kit-kat315 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not sure what you're getting at here...

[–]SquishedPears 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He is doing a cost-benefit analysis, in which it is most preferable for a male to have a partner on hormonal BC because it will cost less assuming the same outcome at different probabilities.

He is getting at the fact that it's better to have more avenues of protection than less.

[–]kit-kat315 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha! Makes sense in context.

[–]SquishedPears 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for the information, I appreciate your effort and willingness to educate. And thank you for tolerating my 'thinking aloud'.

Though my numbers were incorrect, I don't think my point is much different because the failure rate for condoms and hormonal BC together is 0.07x0.13=0.009= 0.9%, using the CDC statistics. So, using the pill makes it 10 times less likely she gets pregnant.

[–]kit-kat315 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No problem! I just wanted to point out the stats b/c a lot of people don't realize how high the failure rates really are for contraceptives.

I sure was surprised when I got pregnant on the pill! I use a different formula now.

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I feel like your data is wrong

Condom has 2-12 and oral contraceptives have 0.1-0.9/0.5-3

X/100 women getting pregnant

Progestin IUD: 0.16

Pills: 0.1 – 0.9 Depot injection: 0.3 – 0.88 Mini-Pills: 0.5 – 3 Vaginal ring: 0.4 – 0.65 Contraceptive patch 0.72 – 0.9 Copper coil: 0.3 – 0.8 Hormone implant: 0 – 0.08 / refer to the comments 1 The Basal temperature method: (only when not having intercourse during the fertile days): 0.8 – 3 Diaphragm: 1 – 20 / refer to the comments 2 Condom: 2 – 12 Cervical cap: 6 / refer to the comments 2, 3 Female condoms: 5 – 25 Chemical contraceptives: 3 – 21 Coitus interruptus: 4 – 18 No contraception: 85 Sterilisation of the woman: 0.2 – 0.3 Sterilisation of the man: 0.1 Calendar method: 9

Source: https://www.profamilia.de/en/topics/contraception/pearl-index

Edit: Read your source. I didn't see if it's 7% world population or 7/100 women.

[–]kit-kat315 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Your source is using stats from clinical trials. That is, perfect usage. The CDC link I provided is failure rates from typical usage. They're both "right," but failure rates for typical usage are what you'd expect to see in real life. Since people sometimes miss a pill, take one late, or take another medicine that interferes.

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh okay thanks. Didn't notice

I was taught that the Pearl Index is more accurate in school. So I assumed it was a bit off.

So Pearl Index is just for Ideal use and your source is for general use with human failure

[–]WillCuckSmith 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

That's a stupid thing to say. Sex doesn't have to be for procreation. News flash.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's not the problem. If you don't wanna be on pills or something like that (due to the pain/damage) condoms are not totally safe for either men or women (due to non-wanted pregnancy), so the most logical thing to do is using condom and doing it with someone that won't abandon you if things goes wrong. But for some reason this sub thinks that pov is cringe.

[–]WillCuckSmith 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you don't wanna be on pills or something like that (due to the pain/damage) condoms are not totally safe for either men or women (due to non-wanted pregnancy)

This is correct!

so the most logical thing to do is using condom and doing it with someone that won't abandon you if things goes wrong.

Correct! But you can't count on that.. so that's why we have the morning after pill, abortion, adoption, leaving on the steps of the fire dept...

But for some reason this sub thinks that pov is cringe.

No, I agree, your point of view is 100% good. It's just that it's not realistic for everyone, obviously.. that's why we have safeguards.

[–]kit-kat315 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

the most logical thing to do is using condom and doing it with someone that won't abandon you if things goes wrong

But that doesn't fix the crucial issue of being pregnant when you don't want to be. If you don't want a kid (or more kids), having a supportive partner is small consolation.

Being on the pill stinks, but it makes way more sense to suck it up over the risks/side effects than use condoms. Way too unreliable!

[–]Abstract_Knight 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"having a supportive partner is small consolation." It's not a consolation, is a NEED if you use condoms.

Also under that logic, complaining about the pill is kinda stupid, is like complaining about the pain you have after purposely touching fire.

[–]kit-kat315 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

complaining about the pill is kinda stupid, is like complaining about the pain you have after purposely touching fire.

It's more like complaining about side effects of any life improving prescription. Like how my antidepressant makes me nauseous but not enough to outweigh the improved mood. We're all really hoping all our medications don't have any side effects.

having a supportive partner is small consolation." It's not a consolation, is a NEED if you use condoms.

To state the obvious, not if you don't keep the child or don't carry to term.

But OP is missing the crucial point. He's too caught up in whether she's sleeping with someone she would be willing to have a child with, but the important point is that she doesn't want a child at all.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That still doesn't explain why that sub thinks the comment is cringe, but well, ig you are right.

[–]kit-kat315 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I already explained it to you in a previous post, and you agreed with me. Not sure what else to say. 🤷‍♀️

[–]chessto 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wtf that guy's comment is completely uncalled for. What a douche

[–]PlayfulLawyer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But then the dipshit feminists love saying "consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy", I would love to commit a crime and plead to a judge with credibility "just because I committed this crime doesn't mean I consented to being arrested" 🤣🤣

As far as what the guy said here, he's not wrong ,sure procreation is not the only reason for sex but we all understand basic biology here, and if you lay down with a woman, do you know there's a chance she could get pregnant, so this is a very valid question to ask yourself every time

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

So have you only had sex with women you wanted to procreate with ? Just curious.

Dude in comments must be a prude. His virtue signaling is nauseating

[–]agressive_commenter 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No it's wise to be cautious and responsible

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure I agree , but in reality its not actuality of real life of our society today.

[–]4543wretng -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if I post this will we get a ban on that's not how girls work?:)))

[–]Abstract_Knight 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Bro don't do that pls.

[–]agressive_commenter 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That shit is unbearably funny

[–]ItisCrazey 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You won't get banned for something like this. I mean it does work like this. You can move with this and it can fall out.

[–]Chains2002 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This guy is an idiot. Nobody should be expected to abstain from sex just because of the threat of pregnancy.

[–]Abstract_Knight 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Then you can't complain about the side effects of something you chose.

[–]AriaBellaPancake 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I posted this in a separate comment already but I'm getting increasingly exasperated that everyone in this conversation sees birth control as only having the purpose of stopping pregnancy.

Birth control is the first treatment offered to women and girls suffering from pain or hormonal issues related to their menstrual cycle.

It is Healthcare. And it's perfectly reasonable for someone receiving treatment to have issues with the fact that it's causing other side effects, as it's reasonable for anyone taking a medication.

Yes, I know the name they use is "Birth Control" and I freaking hate that. I was denied the option of birth control for extreme levels of pain when I was 13 because my father believed it would be a license for me to start having sex. The name sucks for anyone just trying to deal with a damn health issue.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn i'm sorry, i didn't know that.

[–]Chains2002 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Why not? They would rather take birth control than have the chance of getting pregnant, that doesn't mean she can't complain if the birth control is having bad side effects.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Because you did choose to.

Water is wet. Pills have side effects.

[–]Chains2002 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Once again, what is the relevance? A cancer patient chooses chemotherapy over letting the cancer spread, does that mean they shouldn't complain about the side effects of the chemotherapy? If your answer is no they can complain, you are caught in a contradiction. Of your answer is yes they shouldn't complain, then you are just being ridiculous and nobody would agree with you.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why the second one is ridiculous? Could you elaborate?

[–]Chains2002 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

When humans are in pain, the signal this pain to others in various ways. Complaining is one way. By complaining about pain, we seek the help of others. Someone may know of a way we can lower the pain, or if enough people complain someone might one day find a way to lessen the pain. If we did not complain, people wouldn't attempt to help us alleviate our pain. We would therefore live in a world with overall more pain. By complaining about our pain we contribute to creating less pain in the world.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's true.

But it still doesn't explain why the take of the guy on the comments is something cringe to NotHowGirlsWork.

[–]christia4321 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I don't agree with the guy, but there's nothing wrong with having that opinion

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's the women’s decission.

[–]maxlvb -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women have fought for decades to be viewed as equal to men, and now they need to start taking on some of the responsibility that comes with that equality.


Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.

[–]M_Salvatar -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So the right to express opinion is non-existent to them? Hmm...fascists they are, dropped the veil of the cunt-side has.

[–]ivanoud -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Men learn responsibility from the moment they are born, and most of the time, the hard way.

Women skate by, and some never learn.

[–]Whole_Environment682 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Overall, I respectfully disagree. There is nothing in the original post to insinuate the woman in question didn't take any kind of responsibility. She merely talked about the negative side effects of her bc. Which is responsible. We should be able to weigh the pros and cons of birth control on our health, there's nothing wrong with that. I know for me personally it destroyed me mentally, caused all sorts of pain and issues in the bedroom, and gave me acne I still can't get rid of even after being off for years. So my long term boyfriend who I have been with for 3 years and we plan to have a child in the future both take responsibility together. We had to change how that responsibility looked because we decided that my health was more important than the pills. In partnerships you're supposed to work together to find the best arrangement for everyone.

I find your statement that women don't learn responsibility insulting. Because it's simply not true. I could come up with a thousand anecdotes and stories and sit here and try to convince you. But that would get exhausting. Generally, people are too quick to say "only men do this and women don't" or "only women have this trait and men don't" or any other variation of those phrases.

We are all people, we're all trying to get by in this world. It's true, men are taught certain responsibilities from the time they're born. But in the same way, women have been taught other responsibilities from the time they're born. And there are responsibilities that men don't have to worry about that women do and vice versa. And there are responsibilities that we both learn and share together.

But to paint all women with a negative brush based on nothing but stereotypes, internal bias, and a limited perspective does a disservice to responsible men and women everywhere.

I hope this doesn't come across as aggressive or condescending, but I feel it's important that we try to look at each other with more compassion and less division.

[–]ItisCrazey -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Men learn responsibility.

Do you know about the saying

"Boys will be boys"?

You know what was added by many

"but girls will be women"

[–]SnooJokes1401 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's violating their right to be a cum dumpster

[–]d_qureshi -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The guy is frickin awesome!

[–]TimtheToolManAsshole -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He sounds like a decent and great guy

[–]liltigerminx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How is this comment anti feminism and rather equalitarian? doesn't seem like a very equal comment to me :/

[–]Abstract_Knight 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem is they think the guy on the comments just had an opinion about a possible alternative and they think that's cringe.

[–]MoonShimmer1618 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That type has no self control, like animals. Otherwise they would stop and think just a little

[–]BubblyMud6249 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The guy was being rude and condescending. There was no need for that. Yet, he had to be like; “Don’t have sex then. 😂😂”.

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Really?

Like feminists and women generally would never behave that way would they, right? RIIIGHT! 🤣🤣🤣

Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.


I am still trying and waiting for any/all feminists to define feminism for me without using sexist anti-male stereotypes.

[–]BubblyMud6249 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I was just saying what that guy did wrong. None of my statement was saying that women and feminists wouldn’t act that way. In fact, there’s a lot of women who share his view point and none the compassion.

That guy saying that stuff is like telling a person with a broken leg who’s trying to use broken crutches (and venting about it) to not get into accidents.

That rude and frankly arrogant attitude is unwarranted at the moment because that’s not what the person with a broken leg needs and that’s not what that woman on birth control needs.

[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I was just saying what that guy did wrong.

That's your opinion right? RIIGGHT. EOS.

That rude and frankly arrogant attitude is unwarranted at the moment

Why? Because you dont agree with it? 🤣🤣🤣

Here's the thing:

Your rude and frankly arrogant attitude is unwarranted at the moment.

IOW I'm offended that you're offended.

Now what?


Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.

[–]BubblyMud6249 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One, yes, it is a opinion, but so is OP’s stance on this guy doing nothing wrong.

Two, I literally explained to you why it is unwarranted.

Three, I am sorry for coming off as rude and arrogant. I am just defending my viewpoint.

[–]6teeee9 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

some women dont want kids at all no matter the man

[–]xXAngelsXx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

are you from the 1800's? that person is an idiot, its perfectly normal to have sex without wanting to get pregnant/have a child

​

the woman was literally taking birth control too? you're just being hateful at this point, nothing to do with feminism

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean... his advice was "well then don't use the pill if you don't want to..."

Also, you still need a supportive partner if your current contraceptive is not that effective.

[–]xXAngelsXx 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

No, his advice was ‘don’t have sex with someone you don’t wanna have kids with’

And what does sleeping with a supposedly ‘unsupportive partner’ (whatever that means in this context) have to do with feminism?

Also when is birth control ineffective? It literally looks like you’re looking for reasons to hate this random woman. Even if she did end up getting pregnant with an ‘unsupportive partner’ whatever she does is her choice.

Your whole point is shaming her for sleeping with someone who is ‘unsupportive’, that literally has nothing to do with anyone.

[–]Abstract_Knight 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bias ig.

But yeah, kinda unrelated now that i think.

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