Abolish the matriarchy

SII75 · 2023-05-22T01:34:16+00:00

Dude, fuck all that. Until the divorce laws are changed, the best course of action is to never under any circumstances get married. There is no purpose of it. And if you do, there should be a prenup. At the end of the day human beings can change for the worst, and because of that uncertainty, precautions should be taken. Once this changes, everything will be abolished and we will achieve true equally for all. They make us think that a terror attack or some invasion will be the downfall of America? No, our social problems including this nonsense called marriage will be our downfall.

Tricky_Ice_7493 · 2023-05-22T01:40:25+00:00

I disagree with nearly everything you wrote.

Women and men shouldn’t have equal roles in society because men women are not “equal” across multiple categories of behavior, tendencies, competencies and dispositions. Women have roles to fill in functioning societies that play to their strengths - and a proper society will restrain the more toxic elements of each of the sexes. Laws that prohibit violence, wife beating, physical coercion, burglary were implemented to constrain the “toxic masculinity” that leads those crimes to almost exclusively be committed by men.

But we now live in a society that doesn’t just choose not to constrain the more toxic elements of feminine nature - it seems to celebrate them, reward them. The tendency to victimize another by claiming to be a victim yourself, the unapologetic quotas giving women higher management roles in major companies - which in turn gives these women an unrealistic expectation as to their options and choices in the world. The unmitigated ability for a woman to take half of anything a man she married earned over his time with her. These are all behaviors, tendencies that we can see express themselves in the real world - which have obvious negative effects on our families, and by extension our communities. They are the expressions of toxic femininity - and they are completely unchecked by our existing cultural and legal systems.

“Men” do not “run the world outside the home.” A select few, tiny minority of men exist in the top of any competency distribution that allows “elite” men (and women, by virtue of nepotism) to run the institutions that create our social systems. In fact, because women are earning paper degrees at a far higher rate than men, which supposedly qualifies them to be corporate leaders who effect the lives of their employees - it’s far more likely that your life outside the home and at work is dictated by a woman than it is a man in any real sense. The CEO of your company who doesn’t know your name may be a “white male”, but the HR manager, the middle managers who write your reviews that determine your income - those people have a very high chance of being women.

What I think we need more than any “destroy the matriarchy” backlash is a recognition of the different roles men and women play in a society that functions well - and legal/cultural systems that reward the strengths that we have and mitigate the unfavorable tendencies of our nature. The same way we do with men. Women CAN be the rocks of their families. We CAN allow them to fill their natural imperatives as mothers and sisters and wives. We can create systems of incentives that bring out our better angels. But we’ll never get there if we start from a premise of some society-wide “matriarchy vs patriarchy” dynamic. We need each other. We need systems that show it.

The_Bearded_Cyclist · 2023-05-22T04:00:36+00:00

Realistically there is no patriarchy or matriarchy but we do live in a gynocentric society.

Women aren't pushing for equality, they are pushing for equality and special treatment. They want to remove any double standards that don't benefit them.

Women want the power of men, the privilege of women and the accountability of children.

Zapped2311 · 2023-05-22T03:28:44+00:00

I 100% agree with your premise; as 'modern' as we try to present ourselves to be, Moms still run the roost. 'Happy wife, happy life' is STILL a shot through 1000 times overused phrase, unfortunately believed in and practiced by TOO MANY people...

...new information leads to newer understanding, no doubt, and godDAMMIT I don't know about y'all but I can't keep UP with all the shit that's being revealed and 'discovered' these days-- I really wish I could, because 'new' shit is always exciting to me-- but SOME things don't change, and Tricky_Ice_7493 alluded to it in his great response:

WE'RE. NOT. THE. SAME. Men and women have NEVER been the same, and that shit needs to be put front and center. We each have our roles, and you know what? History shows the truth of it: regardless of the 'era', Men go hunt, Women keep the home fires burning. Each have their importance. It's the responsibility of the two people involved to get that shit squared away... and it's equally important that we each realize, understand and ACCEPT that we're not the fuckin same, and rock out with that knowledge.

To your point, though, these things only exist insofar as we LET them exist. Fuck the terms; no insult intended, but each of us involved in marriages are responsible for how they develop and play out, and it's solely on US- the two adults involved. WE decided to do it, WE decide how it goes... and sometimes, we're right. Sometimes, [she's] right. Depends on the stakes, situations. But to fall back on patri/matriarchy.... I *get what you're saying, I *know it's a modern trope, but real life relationships are far too more nuanced than a blanket generalization than that, and fuck ME if I don't know what 'fighting the tide of popular consciousness' is like-- doesn't change the fact: WE determine our outcomes, as best we can, adjusting as we go along. That's what all adults are supposed to do, right?

Patri/Matriarchy--- just dump that shit. Just dump it. Makes as much sense as the 758+ pronouns that are supposedly in existence now... Men are Men, Women are Women, we have definable attributes intrinsic to our biological natures, and if we can't work them out to be successful in our marital endeavors, let it be NOT for lack of trying, but it's just not the right combination of people, not some male/female shit. AGAIN-- I get you, man. I hear you. I just think we all need to go back to men are from mars, women are from venus days. We're not the same and it just needs to be accepted and fuckin APPRECIATED, if not CELEBRATED. For REALLY real. EACH of us bring shit to the table in our own right, and ain't a ONE of us-- either side-- that aren't at times grateful for not 'being the one' that had to [do it]. Fuck the 'modern lexicon'. LIVE LIFE as it is, as it always was.

AudreyTooTwo · 2023-05-22T18:34:13+00:00

It’s advocating for an equal role for women

How does this sub feel about Jordan Peterson? Most of Reddit is convinced he's a neo-Nazi, far-right, woman-hating, trans-hating anti-woke asshole. Whatever. I think he's not quite so harmful. I started listening to him years ago, long before he became famous. His persona was just a few lectures on YouTube.

One of his early lectures was about the patriarchy. Remember, he's a trained clinical psychologist; his opinion is more than just speculation.

Anyway, he argued that patriarchy can also be described as a set of behaviors within an organization, regardless of gender. He studied various instances where a woman CEO decided to start a company and only hire women. 100% woman-owned and woman-operated companies... that was the subject.

He found that, eventually, managerial traits emerged which might be described as patriarchal (or toxic masculine): social dominance, overly-competitive, increased hierarchy formation, greed, some managers asserting their dominance to gain power and influence, and so on.

I thought his observations were interesting and thought-provoking. He wasn't really trying to prove or disprove anything. I think he was just trying to show that patriarchy is just a subset of ALL human behavior that exists regardless of gender. We're all just rats in a cage, fighting for a place at the top. So, when I hear “Smash the Patriarchy”, I always think, okay, and replace it with what, exactly? What social system is waiting in line to replace it?

Fun-Possible7676 · 2023-05-22T01:42:08+00:00

What would we replace it with though? And if we replaced it how would we know if it actually changed anything? Patriarchy and Matriarchy are just symbolic personifications, they aren't actually clubs or organization

Markalot9 · 2023-05-22T03:43:03+00:00

I agree with everything you said there. I believe there needs to be separation of the sexes. That doesn't mean actually that one rules over the other but roles within the family do need to be defined.

MightBusiness7231 · 2023-05-23T11:47:55+00:00

Modern women are terrible. They try to be men and then are miserable. Then they export that misery to their spouses. Meanwhile, men have had to maintain their traditional roles while being steadily devalued. Society is fucked.

Title	Abolish the matriarchy
Author	Least_Attorney9006
Upvotes	14
Comments	19
Date	May 21, 2023 11:57 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/13oaicz/abolish_the_matriarchy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/abolish-the-matriarchy.1219946 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219946

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