How to avoid becoming red pill/mgtow

RandomKneecaps · 2020-06-17T23:44:26+00:00

The college student theme here is really prevalent. It shouldn't be a coincidence that the vast majority of boys drawn to redpill/mgtow/hate for women-type communities are young men who have just gotten out on their own for the very first time AND have raging hormones.

It's probably very frustrating seeing beautiful women, and couples, everywhere and feeling like it's totally out-of-reach. And like a kid who can't beat a hard level of a video game, you naturally want to throw it out the window when it seems stacked against you.

Your emotions are running hotter than any other time in your life, your sex-urges are pounding against the back of your mind every day. You never had a serious connection with another person you aren't related to, and probably never received emotional support from a male parent in your life, at least nothing to prepare you for all of this.

Now to add to all this frustration, we're now in an age where when you're feeling down, validation for your frustration is not only a click away, it's in your pocket, every day, at any moment. Communities of people who will tell you why you keep losing the hard levels, why you should toss the video game out the window, why you're not handsome enough, rich enough, confident enough, tall enough, have thick enough wrists, and on and on and on, feeding your self-loathing engine until you can't get their jargon out of your mind anymore.

But this is all the equivalent of going out and seeing rich business people wildly successful and owning businesses and thinking that you're doing something wrong because you're not like them, that it's your fault or women's fault that you're not also rich and successful, so you decide to start acting and dressing like you're already that person, emulating their mannerism and learning their language, and expecting to get rich without actually working for it.

And there's a lot more in common with those two analogies, in that there is no shortage of people who will try to sell you something with the promises that you will "get there" if you just follow certain rules. There are whole libraries of "get rich fast" books just like there's whole libraries of "get sex fast" books.

And for the vast, vast majority of people, that shit does not work. You may get a magic feather to help you think you can fly for a little while, and from that you may meet someone or get a good opportunity, but it's not the feather, it's the work you put into doing something different.

Most people never do anything different. They say they do, but they don't really. It's crazy-hard to get someone out of their comfort zone, even if that someone is yourself and it's your own brain you're fighting with. Few people actually push themselves into new environments, new places, new experiences, surround themselves with new people and so on. They try something once or twice, fail and never pick it up again, like that guitar permanently leaning on a stand in your dorm, it just sits there as a reminder that without radically changing your habits, the only new thing you'll get is settled dust.

So, I would challenge you and anyone else here, if you're so put-off and frustrated with how everything feels, if you're so angry or depressed or dejected by society and how people seem to engage with each other, realize that you have more than the singular option of transforming yourself into an asshole that you don't really want to be.

Most "borderline" redpillers are either people who don't know how much control they actually have over their lives, or they already are attracted to the idea of becoming a massive shitstain that people hate for whatever reasons, and they're simply looking for validation for that choice. So which are you?

If you're looking to have more control over your life, you don't need an internet forum to do it, you just need to figure out what's actually holding you back and stop beating your head against that wall, but find a way around it. Social anxiety? I got that too. Know how I beat it? I didn't, I accepted that I have disadvantages, that I'll never be some crazy-fun party dude with a thousand friends. So instead I embraced being quiet and cerebral and learned to actually be patient and gained a wholly different kind of confidence in myself, learning a lot about the things I was passionate about and then, ever so slowly, started pushing myself into discomfort, speaking up around people, taking the lead even if I hated it, making my own plans and being the one who invites people to dinner, to a get-together comfortable by MY standards, not waiting for something to happen or someone else to put together the perfect event for my own taste. Severe social anxiety? get help! Modern techniques and medications do WONDERS for mental health conditions, do it before it escalates to depression and personality disorders that are much harder to combat.

In the end, it's about finding balance, constantly growing as a person, and pushing yourself. It's about listening to the things that make you uncomfortable, breaking them apart and understanding them better.

And after reading all this, you're probably wondering "What does ANY of this motivational bullshit have to do with getting a girlfriend?"

Well, going back to where we started, you're just starting out. You HAVE to get a better handle on who you are, or nobody else will be able to get a handle on who you are. You will be inconsistent and push people away, especially college girls who are ALSO AS CLUELESS AS YOU. Don't fall into the trap that you're the only one floundering and treading water, everyone is also struggling, but we're all really good at hiding it.

If you can find a place inside yourself where you are confident and caring and have emotions like empathy and can hold a relationship with another person, man or woman, and make them feel good being around you, all the rest will fall into place. You will make friends, and people will gravitate to you.

But that pickup art BULLSHIT like "don't be friends with women" is just bitter, butthurt, angsty teen drivel. No adult who is happy with their life has rules about who they can be friends with! The happiest people have learned how to love others, how to feel pride in themselves for just being themselves and let the world's judgments and fears bounce off them. If you can get that strong for yourself, not for the sake of getting pussy or being some kind of baddass, you will find a peace and emotional state that will draw people to you like a moth to flame. Because they're also treading water, they're also unsure. They want someone solid to hold onto. Become a solid rock, not a floating turd.

Carloverguy20 · 2020-06-18T00:02:37+00:00

Brother, i was you almost 2-3 years ago back in 2017-2018 but not as extreme. I was 21 years old, never had a serious relationship, was struggling in school, was a junior in college had a life crisis at one point, thought it was "Over" because everyone i knew had a relationship but me, so i discovered RP, Mgtow and incel communities on reddit and started spewing the manipulative crap they say like 80/20, Hypergamy etc. Elliot Hulse lives under a rock with his comments, i've moved on from the rp community in late 2019 after i realized they are full of crap. Get away when you can. It's okay to be friends with woman. TRP is full of crap and loves to pray on dudes like us who are emotionally vulnerable.

2020-06-17T23:22:14+00:00

You just sound too thirsty dude. How did you happen upon the red pill? Did you learn anything from it? Did you make it through redpill rage or still stuck in it?

You don’t have to be angry. Women can be your friends . Most of my friends are. If you have a close lady friend of intelligence then bounce your thoughts off of her. The older and wiser the better. I ask my 90yo grandmother. She don’t give a f about what people think and will be straight up. Lol

I thought incels were black pill? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Luvagoo · 2020-06-18T00:01:45+00:00

Besides emphasising again that women are just great, boring and flawed people like any other and the fact that following this bullshit will never, ever, ever lead to a solid relationship built on genuine love and respect, I just want to shout out your self awareness and insight here. Good for you, you're half way there.

absolutebeginners · 2020-06-17T23:35:32+00:00

It does come off a bit whiny. Sometimes you gotta figure things out for yourself. If you think the men out there getting laid are bitter misogynists...well, not much we can do to convince you otherwise. But not sure how you think cultivating that personality defect is going to help you get laid, it isn't, its just gonna make you more bitter and angry.

Whats your goal anyway? You want to get laid? Go get in shape and learn to talk to girls without being socially awkward. You are looking for an easy way out and i promise you none exist. Go start talking to all the girls you meet. Have a normal conversation with them. If it gets awkward, just say you gotta get going. Its not that bad.

The best way to meet girls is through girlfriends who think you're normal, so why would you give that up? Even TRP advises going out with girls as wingwomen since you're automatically socially proofed. This is a no-brainer. Thinking of your personal relationships as transnational like this is actually kinda sick, and i feel bad for your friends.

luridlurker · 2020-06-17T23:22:04+00:00

For something to not be just an ideology, it has to be falsifiable. RedPill/MGTOW is largely just an ideology. If you are looking for studies to debunk claims, you need to spell out the claim, and explain ways it is falsifiable (ie, not just an ideology, but something provable/disprovable).

Inareskai · 2020-06-18T09:07:24+00:00

The answer is really very simple: You shouldn't be a part of the red pill because it will never give you what you want.

You want a romantic relationship where you care about each other and enjoy having each other in your lives? The red pill will not help you there, it's strategies are around manipulating women, constantly being insecure that she's cheating and constantly trying to make her insecure that you are. There is nothing healthy or loving about those relationships.

It sucks that you have social anxiety and that you want something you currently feel is unattainable, but the red pill will not help you get there. It will just give you external things to blame your unhappiness on and leave you miserable and angry at the world.

Some of the best things I've seen that debunk/critically analyse red pill ideas come from Contrapoints and H.Bomberguy on youtube, so I'd recommend them.

quickbucket · 2020-06-18T00:43:31+00:00

Your feelings are valid, but please realize that it is perfectly normal for people not to have a relationship or sexual experiences in high school or even college. There is nothing wrong with you that wont change with time and maturity (both of yourself and peer group). As others have said, the hormones are real; but, unfortunately, until you chill out and get comfortable in your own skin again you're not going to attract sexual partners or dating partners (or at least not emotionally healthy ones). The one thing TRP (sort of) gets right is that trying too hard to treat women "like princesses," or befriending women to get laid, is a losing game. What they get completely wrong though is why it doesnt working. It's not because women prefer men who treat them poorly. Being a NiceGuyTM doesnt work because bombing a person you barely know with affection is a type of manipulation that smacks of equal parts thirst and entitlement. Women sense when you're just their friend because you think you might get it in. Some women will allow this to take advantage of your "friendship," but most wont and the women you want to date definitely wont.

Dont fall for this shit. Know your worth. There are plenty of reasons for your female friends to like and value you without ulterior motives. But do be aware that friends, of either gender, are capable of being users andit might be easier for them to get away with if you have a crush

Violetta311 · 2020-06-18T03:57:57+00:00

I’m wondering if you would share what you mean about your female friends not being your type?

Rad1Red · 2020-06-18T00:02:31+00:00

How do you avoid becoming a racist arsehole? By not paying attention to racist sh*t.

How do you avoid becoming a misogynist POS? Stop listening to the likes of Elliot Hulse and other redpill dumbsh*ts.

It's quite simple, really.

You "want to be convinced you shouldn't be a part of redpill" ? Have at it, mate. Nobody should have to convince you to be a proper human being.

tomowudi · 2020-06-18T13:41:59+00:00

You are coming off like a perfectly normal young man who is trying to make sense of a perfectly confusing time in your life.

It takes most of us decades to sort through our feelings about ourselves, and that has a big impact on our relationship with others.

I am going to link to you some things I have written for people in the past about relationships:

What a healthy relationship looks like

Healthy Boundaries and Toxic Relationships

Communicating without blame

Dishes and blame...

Why you need to care about your partner's stupid bullshit

But mostly I just want to encourage you to start meditating, see a counselor, and to try and start celebrating what you have done right today. What are you proud to have accomplished?

Every day we have 24 hours.

Each minute of each hour, we have an opportunity to think of something we will be proud to have at least tried, even if we FAILED at completing it. Like chin ups.

If you wanted to get good at chinups, you might try to do at least 1 every day.

And you would fail (maybe, for example), every day.

But every day you would pull yourself a smidge higher.

Until 1 day, you eventually succeed at your first one.

But in between doing your first chin up, you can just be proud that you are TRYING.

Why not?

Trying is hard to do. Most people are too scared to even TRY.

And look at you now!

Here you are!

Trying to live your best life! This post is worth celebrating too! It is full of evidence that you have so much to be proud of!

You have identified where you are vulnerable.

You bravely exposed it to strangers...

To intelligently ask for help and support...

Because you wisely intuited that you were missing pieces of the puzzle that were taking you further away from the person you want be.

That is fucking fantastic.

Think about how many people slip into the Red Pill that never get to the point that you are right now...

Looking for a better way.

That means, no matter how much pain you have, no matter how appealing it may seem...

You know better. Which is why you are trying to be better.

Which means you are already amazing my dude.

You just need to appreciate that.

Trust your judgement because it led you to start asking questions about your anger and insecurity.

This is all just fear. Fear of what others will think of you. Fear of rejection. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of being alone. Fear of being taken advantage of. Fear of being weak. Fear of being alone.

Fear is simply resistance of uncertainty.

Not danger.

Uncertainty, which may or may not be dangerous in fact.

Take rejection, for instance.

10,000 years ago, rejection meant that you would be kicked out from the tribe, and would have to hunt Wooly mammoths while being stalked by sabertooth tigers, all by yourself. (I have been playing a lot of Far Cry Primal, but you get the idea).

Fuck. Rejection for a wolf means they lose the pack. They could get injured and not be able to hunt. That means death.

Today, rejection means that you can pick up your phone and swipe right for an hour until your phone buzzes to let you know you have a new match (I stopped dating just before tinder came out, so I am making assumptions here, but I also used to be a PUA "coach", so forgive any discrepancies about the apps themselves ;-) ).

Today rejection means that you can go back to searching for a fuckbuddy or friend no matter where either of you are in the WORLD.

You don't need to walk for days through brutal, unforgiving wilderness, forging for berries.

You could join an anime club in Japan, learn Japanese, and then become an English tutor to have someone else pay for the fucking machine that can magically fly you around the fucking world to attend a convention where you and your fellow club members can fuck each other while dressed up as sailor moon.

Our fear is meant to help us survive the wilderness. But that fear is just what we feel in our body. That feeling is in response to... Like... Everything. Including whatever fucked up rationalized "story" our brain makes up to explain why we feel the way we feel.

And this is where we get screwed up. Because sometimes the story is bullshit.

Sometimes we use the word afraid, when we mean excited.

https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_the_power_of_vulnerability/transcript?language=en

VdSteel · 2020-06-18T00:18:41+00:00

For starters, I have to piggy back off of what RandomKneeCaps said:

"If you can get that strong for yourself, not for the sake of getting pussy or being some kind of baddass, you will find a peace and emotional state that will draw people to you like a moth to flame."

I've been on both sides of the fence. Redpill and ex-redpill. Been very successful with relationships on the ex-redpill side. I was just a little prick looking to get a nut on the redpill side, ultimately unsuccessfully.

The problem with redpill is certain things about it are true. PARTS of the rational male are true. Parts of separating yourself from women are good. But nothing is dogmatic in either world.

Until you get out there and experience shit for yourself you won't know what is up and what is down. I would highly advise against treating women like shit though.

Finally, I would ask yourself:

"Do I expect to have good things happen in life when I have bad intentions, or do I expect to have bad things happen in life when I have bad intentions?" Apply that question to other things than relationships, like school, sports, hobbies, etc. Now I ask how are things like school, sports and hobbies different from relationships? Both require effort, both can give you a return. Try to neglect the randomness of the world.

The Redpill doesn't acknowledge this, they think the worse you treat your woman the better return on the relationship (which is just sex for most redpillers). While men and women are different biologically, they aren't different in terms of logical ability. If they see that the guy doesn't care about them - why would they stick around?

I would read 12 Rules for Life and start down a holier path, it helped me.

BlueKing7642 · 2020-06-18T05:13:24+00:00

“You shouldn’t be friends with women unless you want to be in a relationship with them”

👆This is bad advice

The best way to avoid falling into the manosphere is to see women as human beings. And it’s hard (not impossible but difficult) to dehumanize a group of people when you have friends in that group.

So keep your females friends and drop the internet dating gurus with a myopic view of human relationships .

Maybe look into therapy and medication to deal with the anxiety.

Gatemaster2000 · 2020-06-18T16:43:11+00:00

Hey this post got somehow into my feed and I don't know why?

I have never been in any sort of intimate relationship with a girl before and to be quite honest I don’t really know how to initiate one.

This is opposite for me (as I'm a transsexual woman) but I can talk to you about my experience.

I have met some guys and being asked on a date by them, if a guy asks me in the bus/mall I'm not interested really but i take it as a compliment if he's nice and doesn't think that I'm "playing hard to get", but i am open to guys hitting onto me/asking for dates at a networking event or a bar.

Maybe go to a meetup/networking event, start chatting with everyone there. Ask details about the girls there including their hobbies, if they are in a relationship, if they are from another city/country and could use more friends in this city to show them around.

At the social networking event you can get a drink to loosen you up and help your anxiety.

I just started dating for the first time in my life (after losing 10kg) few months before the Corona and i had dates with 2 great (foreign) guys, both of whom i met at a networking event for international people. I started flirting with one of the guys myself and the other guy started the flirting himself.

This is causing me to lose interest in keeping these relationships. Here’s another problem, I’ve researched a lot of red pill, mgtow and incel ideas and unfortunately, they all make perfect sense to me. If it didn’t make sense I would probably would still want to be friends with some of those people.

I have some female friends who I considered to be pretty close to, but none of them are really my type in terms of dating. I’ve also heard a lot of red pill coaches (like Elliot Hulse) say that you shouldn’t be friends with girls unless you want to be in a relationship with them.

Thing about all of them is that they are kind of like a cult and while they sound great as an idea they are harmful. If any ideology or friend tells you to stop being friends with other people or group/ideology then they might want to make you isolate yourself from people/ideologies who/that think otherwise in order to pull you more in to their cult/ideology and make you more easily manipulateable. Some lgbt subreddits are guilty of this or related behavior.

For example by you cutting the girl friends out of your life you also cut your chances of finding a girlfriend through some of those girl friends friends.

Maybe try going on a dates with a girl who isn't close to your type? I don't think that it can hurt you. At best you might get a new girl friend and after getting to know you she might have a girl friend who is single and might be more of your type.

I went on a few dates with a Finnish guy (who looked like this) and while I wasn't physically attracted to him at all or anything other than him being a bit taller than I'm. He was just such a great albeit really socially akward guy/who might have been on ASD spectrum, that i developed strong feelings for him at the end of our first date in a video game museum. Sadly we were sexually incompactible due to my birth condition.

Maybe try to surround yourself with people who don't have any type of pill/incel/mgtow mindset (eg women, business people) and try to detox and improve yourself that way and maybe you'll find someone through the connections you'll make?

unlivedbread · 2020-06-19T02:50:12+00:00

TRP is great in some respects but I find it often doesn't 1. prescribe the right treatments, 2. It doesn't look into things on a deeper level, and 3. doesn't see the grey area when it comes to the behavior of women (AWALT).
Also as a general rule of thumb "Gain in wisdom can be directly measured by a decrease in bitterness" Fredrick Nietzsche.
This rule is incredibly true whether you realize it now or not.
TRP/MGTOW is incredibly bitter and downright resentful towards women. And as such, they shouldn't be looked towards for any kind of advice.
If you want advice see "Team 3D Alpha" on youtube. He's got a big brother vibe and is very level headed, logical, and most importantly positive when it comes to women. His advice has helped me greatly. Here's a link to his channel
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6VMg37ZYWlwIe-hOi7uZBPVfeMA7HD1d

dalia-chan · 2020-06-17T23:28:07+00:00

Just a question. Why would you hate women?

( hating them because they refuse to date you isn’t an excuse)

mr_Tobbor · 2020-06-18T13:40:02+00:00

The Red Pill initially was a data base of information on how to get laid. That is something usefull to know.

GermanShepherdAMA · 2020-06-18T05:11:52+00:00

I think you might be able to be friends with girls, but it probably won’t work out. You should try it just so you know how to talk to girls anyways.

sg183 · 2020-06-18T04:47:26+00:00

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sg183 · 2020-06-18T05:27:13+00:00

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sg183 · 2020-06-18T05:49:10+00:00

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sg183 · 2020-06-18T04:35:28+00:00

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quickbucket · 2020-06-17T23:51:24+00:00

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Title	How to avoid becoming red pill/mgtow
Author	TC-Wheeler
Upvotes	54
Comments	52
Date	June 17, 2020 11:03 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/hb2cfd/how_to_avoid_becoming_red_pillmgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/how-to-avoid-becoming-red-pillmgtow.696810 https://theredarchive.com/post/696810

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