I feel like there’s such a common characterization of relationships as meritocractic on anti redpill/incel subs that’s so frustrating

bluemagex2517 · 2024-01-15T01:06:51+00:00

You aren’t single because you’re ugly you probably just have a bad personality” when I know racists homophobes sexists and just general assholes

Personality in this instance has nothing to do with morality. We literally just mean enjoyable to be around. Fun to hang out with. Charismatic. Personable. Amiable. Etc.

99.99% of the time this is absolutely true and the evidence is everywhere. Every ugly dude I've ever met who had a cool personality, who was genuinely fun to hang out with, was in a relationship or had had multiple relationships in the past. He might not have been dating the most stereotypically attractive women, but he did fine.

It's only dudes who have milquetoast personalities or worse who can't find a single woman who is interested. And sure, they could get away with that if they were really conventionally attractive, but it's way easier to change their boringness than it is to become a physical hunks.

It flies directly in the face of the idea that being a good guy is enough to attract a woman

Being a "good guy" was never enough. You either need to be good looking or fun to be around or both. It's that fucking simple.

xvszero · 2024-01-15T00:55:18+00:00

Yeah assholes have relationships. But... "ugly" people have relationships too.

I don't think a person who isn't find a relationship is bad. Hell, I didn't find one until I was 30. But I do think the red / black pill types who write it off as being completely because of their looks or height or whatever are way off. It's probably a combination of things, and one of those things is usually just that they are putting themselves out there enough and taking chances.

Of course, there are the super sexist incels and yeah, being super sexist probably is getting in the way of a relationship for them. Sure some super sexist people find relationships. But it's generally not a trait most women want.

Brilliant_Program_39 · 2024-01-15T00:45:44+00:00

But they are assholes with women or are assholes with you but threat women well?

Also good personality doesn't mean being nice. Good personality is those traits that make you more prone to have relationships with the opposite sex. Behavioral traits are more correlated with body count than physical appareance. People who are risk takers tend to have more sex, for example.

I have seen incels rejecting or avoiding women because they don't want to "ascend" in reality, they only want to be victims. That's a shitty kind of personality.

Brilliant_Program_39 · 2024-01-15T00:57:45+00:00

What you describe seems to be Just-World bias. People just think that others get what they deserve. No women? Well, it's your fault. No home? You did something bad so you don't have it. It's not conscious.

Take into account that we are just normal people trying to disengage with those ideologies. You should read datepsych or Nuancepill material to have a more scientific debunking of the blackpill/redpill stuff.

But if you ask me, I would say to you that you should take action. Take the risk and approach women in your school/work/hobby/church/whatever. Not cold approach, just approach. That will give you more chances. Take care of your appareance too, good hygiene, good posture, fresh breath, etc. Look healthy and kind.

Top_Radio_9436 · 2024-01-15T00:28:05+00:00

“You aren’t single because you’re ugly you probably just have a bad personality” when I know racists homophobes sexists and just general assholes who are extremely successful wihh the women because they’re hot.

Yeah, but "success" is subjective. Success as you've just defined it TBH sounds like just fucking and the attraction in these instances is only physical. If that's what being "extremely successful with women" means to you then I can't argue with that. Not everyone wants sex without substance though.

Stargazer1919 · 2024-01-15T01:36:39+00:00

There's not just one reason why someone turns to redpill or incel ideas.

They might be an asshole, they might have mental illness holding them back, they might have social anxiety or be lacking in social skills, they might be living in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There's not just one reason why someone will get rejected. It's more than just looks.

Whoever they asked out may be creeped out by them, maybe they didn't like their attitude or personality, or maybe they were interested in someone else, maybe they don't know each other well enough, maybe they only want to be friends, maybe they want to be left alone and don't want any attention or distractions, maybe they have their own stuff going on in life.

There's more than one possible reason why someone would choose to go out with someone else.

They may genuinely like them as a person. Maybe they see a good side of them that nobody else sees. It could be for looks or something superficial. But really, you don't know what goes on in private between two people.

This is only what I can think of off the top of my head. There's more possibilities out there besides that.

SweelFor- · 2024-01-15T06:52:35+00:00

There are men who are attracted to asshole women too. Why do you focus on only one side of this? Why does it matter to you? How does it affect your quest to find a compatible partner?

Grouchy_Toe2404 · 2024-01-15T00:33:50+00:00

People don't owe you their company. They don't owe it to you, even if you're a good person, even if they give it to a bad person. People don't owe you to consider justice when they choose to date or reject you.

Our society should strive for equal rights for everyone. Dating isn't a right.

This is a space for people who want to learn about human rights, specifically women's rights, on a deep level. It's not a space to argue about some men's non-rights. If you think fairness in dating is important, you're misguided.

Dating is a game of luck for everybody involved. One can be a demigod/ess praised by everyone, if they never come across a person in their life with matching personalities. People can also be absolutely awful and find a hundred other awful people to match with. If you choose to date, and get out without traumatized and have a pleasant experience here and there, that's a privilage.

Dating isn't meritocratic, but there is also no reason to expect it to be. Be a decent human, hang out with other decent humans, and you have a non-zero chance. That's all you can hope for.

Most_Read_1330 · 2024-01-15T01:35:54+00:00

It's a just world fallacy. If you're unsuccessful it's assumed that something is wrong with you. Reality is attraction is not based on whether you are a good person or not.

WWhiMM · 2024-01-15T01:30:37+00:00

You've got to imagine they are speaking from their own perspective. Like, the people taking the time to consider the issue, these are not the same people who go for the first hot guy to spit in their face. You ask them what's important, and they tell you what's important to them specifically.

The whole thing is a sort of just-world fallacy. Bad things happen to bad people, being lonely is bad, therefore if you're lonely then it must be because you're a bad person. Bad people are [fill in the blank], thus if you are lonely then you must be [fill in the blank].
By the way, redpill will use this exact same (flawed) logic, just fill in the blank with "beta-male" or some bullshit like that.

l00ks-p1lled · 2024-01-15T12:56:16+00:00

Being good looking guarantees that your partner will desire you physically/sexually

if that's what you really want then become good looking. If you can't then wait patiently until you find a woman that is physically attracted to you

spiraldinosaur · 2024-01-15T21:41:37+00:00

I also know lots of women who are racist homophobic assholes, and they are extremely successful with men beacuse they're hot.

I also know lots of men and women who aren't racist homophobic sexist assholes, and they do perfectly well with dating because they're good people who are nice to be around and they make other people's lives better with their company.

Every scale of the spectrum has men and women, and they'll all date each other. Narcissists attract other narcissists. Racists attract other racists. Hardcore left wing vegan queer folk attract hardcore left wing vegan queer folk.

But typically, where ever you are in the great web of humanity, if you want to get dates and develop relationships, there still has to be a reason why someone should be with you, just as you would expect from a partner.

"if the person hasn't done or said anything bad" isn't enough. It's not about how good a person you are per se, but about how your company enhances someone else's life. Are you fun to be around? Are you bringing joy to the conversation? Are you interesting, funny, engaging, a good listener? Are you motivated, caring, emotionally available? These are all "personality" traits and they're all valued by a lot of people. And a lot of them are neutral too and just about whether your traits match the person in question. Are you introverted/extroverted? Are you interested in certain topics? Are you someone who loves kids or someone who doesn't? Do you like to party or do you prefer to stay home with a movie? Are you into sports? Arts? Science? comics? Books? Again, all personality traits.

And yes, assholes will find other assholes to date. But the vast majority of people out there don't want to date an awful person and I'd say being a good person does make a difference. Andrew Taint can fill his house with scantily clad women with fake boobs and lips and lashes I'm sure. But the vast majority of women actually think he's absolutely disgusting and wouldn't touch him for any amount of money.

Just because you see assholes getting women doesn't mean everyone else is left out. Go spend time actually looking at real people in the real world and see all the couples out there. Get to know some. See that most people aren't assholes, and most people don't want to be with assholes either.

Title	I feel like there’s such a common characterization of relationships as meritocractic on anti redpill/incel subs that’s so frustrating
Author	External-Shop-4957
Upvotes	2
Comments	78
Date	January 15, 2024 12:03 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/196ugx9/i_feel_like_theres_such_a_common_characterization/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/i-feel-like-theres-such-a-common-characterization.1242974 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242974

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