Looks matter definitely

dongtouch · 2020-06-08T01:47:44+00:00

Because people mix up a few things that are all true simultaneously:

Looks matter - people generally have to be physically attracted to someone to be interested in a romantic and sexual relationship with them.

There are certainly physical attributes that the majority of people find attractive, and are considered objectively attractive. But...

People are also attracted to all kinds of people, at the same time. People can be attracted to many different types and looks. Only a narrow range of people can be models, but that doesn't mean everyone only finds models attractive. Just because some women are only into men who look like Brad Pitt and Daniel Craig doesn't mean there aren't other women who like them, but also your average Joe next door. Some women don't find typically handsome guys attractive and prefer average Joe. Attraction is also a sum of not just looks but mannerisms, speech, personality, values, and a whole lot of other things that make up the whole person.

This means that yes, looks matter, and yes, more typically attractive people get the most attention, but no, that isn't a zero sum game where there's no attraction left for anyone else. it doesn't mean no woman will ever be into you unless you look like that. Do not let Tinder swipes distort your thinking about this.

Look around you at your friends, your family, strangers outside in the real world. Look at how many couples are together who aren't particularly good looking. Yet they fall in love, they have sex, they are def into each other.

Cosmoglio · 2020-06-08T02:39:49+00:00

Fundamentally ugly people are really fucking rare.

Incels make it seem as if it’s all mathematics and aerospace engineering with symmetry and shit but really, ugly people are quite rare, as rare as fundamentally gorgeous people. Most who think themselves as ugly are in fact in the average, and can be good looking very easily. It’s all common advice: haircut, fitting clothes, style, health. Literally the first 3 could be done in an afternoon. Race is also waaaayyy overblown by incels. I’ve seen Indians, Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, and so on, look like classy models. You’ve seen them too. Be real.

I’m serious. PM me a picture (or not if you don’t want some rando on the internet to see your face) and I’ll give you my honest opinion. I can bet you’re not fundamentally ugly.

Disclaimer & edit: I’m a straight guy but I’m not like “hurr durr I can’t see male beauty cause I’m not g4y”.

Reyeactable · 2020-06-08T04:57:01+00:00

I agree with all the previous posters, attraction is a combination of several traits. It is not a zero sum kinda thing.

However, your experiences are also valid. Dating as a minority can be a different experience where you discover that you have better dating success in certain regions than others.

Sometimes if the particular things that make you unique are not valued as much within one cultural or ethnic context, you discover that there are cultures and ethnic groups closer to your own experiences who value your uniqueness more.

I grew up thinking I was rather plain-looking. Not ugly. Not great. Just no one to write home about. And I never had a girlfriend in my hometown.

My first move was 3 hours down the road from where I grew up. I literally had to learn a new set of social skills to handle all of the women that were attracted to me. Life hadn't prepared me for it. And I had no fucking clue what to do. Honestly, my first year there I fucked up A LOT from inexperience. Next three years were golden, though.

Next city? Deadzone. Thought I'd lost my fucking mojo or something. Wondered where all the good times had gone.

2 hours down the road from there? Social life lit up like a fucking fireworks show and I was inundated again.

Some of the patterns I noticed were that I did well relationship-wise in areas where I met a lot of people who had similar values, passions, political leanings, and were accustomed to diversity (larger metro areas)--and in communities where people who look like me are well-represented.

Your feelings are valid. What humans perceive as normal and attractive varies from place to place. I'm glad you got to experience people valuing the unique presentation that is a part of what makes you...You.

A benefit from those experiences is that you'll possess a confidence from them that will help you continue to find satisfying relationships no matter where you are.

ssilBetulosbA · 2020-06-08T01:47:47+00:00

Nobody said looks are completely irrelevant. But there are many other factors than looks and it also depends from person to person on what they find attractive in particular.

As a guy, looks in women were always important to me, but there were many super hot women I met that I did not really find that attractive otherwise, and some regularly physically attractive women that were literally insanely attractive to me because of their vibe, personality, commonalities we had, their intelligence, their ability to empathize with others....

In my experience (and I don't want this to sound demeaning to anyone), the more shallow you are as a person, the more you value only physical attraction. I can tell you this from my own experience. Years ago the most important thing to me in women were their looks, now, as I'm 30, it's so much more to it than that. As you mature as a person, your tastes mature as well (not true for everyone of course).

Also, it's prudent to note your intentions - pure physical attraction is obviously less relevant if you want a long term relationships vs. a one night stand (though even in this case you can have such powerful charisma and confidence that you can get women to have just sex with you (ONS) without being attractive at all - I know guys that were chubby and short with some insane confidence and charisma that would have women totally into them).

All levels of attractiveness are important, including the physical. But to say that looks are the only thing that matters is a huge mistake. There is perhaps a certain subset of people that truly only value physical attraction, but these are usually the most shallow people around, people you cannot even have a few minute conversation with (perhaps about the weather or the news, but I doubt much more than that). Do you really want to be with someone like that? (and if the answer is yes, I recommend you heighten your standards).

EDIT: and another thing - looks very often just equal health. If you improve your health, your diet, your fitness you will automatically become more attractive. The more you are fit, the more you are healthy, the better you eat, the more you will have energy, nicer skin, nicer hair, teeth....So there is a lot that can be done regarding looks even if genetics didn't give you much favours.

theamazingsime · 2020-06-08T01:23:33+00:00

Looks matter. I don’t see how that’s some big new discovery.

Edit: its not the end all be all though. No matter what you look like, you can find someone.

Reyeactable · 2020-06-08T01:08:55+00:00

[deleted]

quickbucket · 2020-06-08T13:59:53+00:00

Asian men do struggle with American women, but that changes pretty quickly when you get to a large multicultural city. What makes you so sure that it was looks only that explained different levels of attention in different countries/regions? Women of different cultures have different expectations for attitude, style, and behavior too.

Reyeactable · 2020-06-08T15:53:46+00:00

Of course looks matter.

But:

It´s not the only thing that matters, it´s one of so so so many factors.
Not every woman likes the same traits in a guy. Incels always have this "hurr durr my wrists are too small, oh no I´m less than 6 feet tall, better rip off my dick right now", and that´s simply nonsense. Never have I ever even noticed the wrists of some guy. Will a tall, fit guy with a symmetric face and great hair get more dates than a small, fat guy with a potato nose and oily hair? Yeah, probably. But although they are probably on the far ends of a scale of average attraction, it´s very unlikely that the first guy could get any date he wants and the second guy will never date anyone.

globeglobeglobe · 2020-06-08T09:00:17+00:00

Looks absolutely matter, and it's a shame that for the sake of appearing holier-than-thou, a lot of mainstream society (at least on Reddit, and liberal circles more generally) are somewhat reluctant to acknowledge this openly. This, as you rightly point out, makes redpill/blackpill the "custodians" of this "hidden truth," especially for young, socially inexperienced men.

With that said, the picture isn't as bleak (or black-and-white) as incels portray it. For instance, they note that a few men receive disproportionate female attention and think these are genetically ordained "chads", while ignoring the fact that ~75% of American men even aged 18-24 (and, incidentally, about the same fraction of women) have unhealthy (and therefore, unattractive) levels of body fat. Not everyone can be a model, but with diet and exercise, most people can be appealing to the opposite sex.

And of course attraction is, as you mention, heavily determined by culture. In the US this can often be heavily slanted against ethnic men---as an Indian man, I'm naturally perceived as more rude/aggressive, less outgoing/socially competent, etc. as compared to the white "default." I'm also "short" (5'8"—really just a shade below average height) in a country where the importance of height is inflated. These trim down my prospects, and in some extreme cases inspire outright revulsion, but honestly it's far from "over" for me.

And, of course, looks aren't the only thing that matter, they're just the first thing we notice.

WestAtmosphere · 2020-06-08T22:46:28+00:00

Ofc looks matter? Men judge women and other men. Women judge other women and men. There’s no denying it.

But the difference is women’s initial attraction is different than men. I don’t initially find many men attractive, however I can deem if I’m definitely not attracted to them in a romantic way, but there’s many guys that I’m like “sure he’s attractive” and it gets left at that. I start to genuinely like him and become super attracted to him after I start to know his demeanour.

I’m not completely floored by men’s appearance and do not become obsessed off of how they look. Objectively they can be attractive but I don’t get love drunk with my eyes. Men approach women based solely on their looks, they end up loving after the fact when they get to know her. But the initial attractor is always looks.

Also we will always be attracted to some people and will be not as attractive to others. Do white men... people of my own colour hit on me a lot? NOPE. Sure they might look but they do not interact often. But men of darker complexion will openly voice their attraction to me. It’s only certain demographics that seem to be super attracted to me as a woman. Just like some white guys will never have attraction to a darker skin complexion lady. Or how some asians only are attracted to other asians. It definitely depends on a lot of things.

Carloverguy20 · 2020-06-08T06:23:25+00:00

Do looks matter yes, but not as much as BlackPill/Incel thinks they do. Not every woman wants a 6 foot tall masculine man. What type of women are you going after?

Reyeactable · 2020-06-08T01:44:00+00:00

[removed]

JimBeamAndCoke2016 · 2020-06-10T06:37:29+00:00

If you were to make a pie chart of what attracts women, at least 50% of it would be looks. The rest would be made up of other traits such as confidence, personality, fitness etc, in varying percentages.

No matter what you may read or hear, it's facial attractiveness that sparks the initial attraction. The other traits are just attraction builders.

krmaml · 2020-06-08T10:35:14+00:00

Women care about their "collective image" a lot more than men. When we say that women are more selective than men and find fewer men physically attractive than vice versa, it makes most women very uncomfortable. They see it as a personal attack and become defensive.

If you do a survey of a million women asking them to rate the most important things that make a man attractive/hot, "looks" will rank somewhere around 6, while humor, loyalty, and good listener will be in the top 3. This doesn't mean women are deliberately lying, its just their deep rooted need to feel good about themselves, preserve their "collective image", and be known as the 'less shallower sex'.

As a male feminist, I think that we should not make women unnecessarily uncomfortable by bringing this topic up.

Title	Looks matter definitely
Author	Reyeactable
Upvotes	43
Comments	60
Date	June 8, 2020 12:50 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/gyoosc/looks_matter_definitely/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/looks-matter-definitely.672500 https://theredarchive.com/post/672500

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