Orbiters

chofferblower · 2020-09-11T02:06:40+00:00

Okay, I might have some insights on the 80/20 thing.

The Pareto’s law, as it’s called, states that in nature, things tend to organise in one way or another around a 1:5 ratio of some sorts. For example, 80% of the mass of the universe is located in 20% of the space, roughly, 80% of the human population resides in 20% of the land available, 20% of the population owns approximately 80% of the wealth, and vice-versa.

The thing is, very much as Moore’s Law or the Golden number, Pareto’s law actually ISN’T a law. It’s a statement describing coincidentally observed stuff. It isn’t predictive. It isn’t generalised. 80% of the ocean’s surface doesn’t occupy 20% of the earth’s surface, nor does 80% of the water volume account for 20% of the earth overall mass, nor is 80% of the pollution done by 20% of the business, and nor does 20% of the stuff you eat amount to 80% of the stuff you shit in any regard.

We human being like patterns, because patterns means prediction, prediction means control, control means survival and survival means... well, we’re here, you know. However, our very useful but basically unconditional love for patterns tends to strike back sometimes and this is definitely such a case. Pareto’s Law can arguably be useful when starting an investigation of some sort, to give a starting point, a base hypothesis. But it definitely doesn’t on and off itself account for any kind of transcendantal proof. If you want to advance that a specific thing organises itself following Pareto’s law, you have to prove it. Otherwise, it’s basically as good as any other guess.

zoemondo · 2020-09-11T01:25:08+00:00

I've seen this discussion come up a lot. Ultimately, the conversation comes to an end with the redpill/blackpill guy making excuses about every guy a woman sleeps with or dates.

She's dating or fucking a fat and ugly dude? She will leave him. Oh wait, she marries the guy? She will divorce him. Then she has kids with him? Just wait, she's still gonna leave.

She's dating or fucking a good looking guy? See, girls only want hot dudes! She will still leave him though, and settle for an ugly dude!

This isn't consistent with itself. Does she settle for the ugly dude or the hot dude? And what about average looking guys? This kind of thinking is too black and white.

They make up some bullshit no matter who women get with. Redpill constantly moves the goalposts. Read between the lines: redpill guys are actually trying to say "why did she choose someone else and not me?"

People date, fuck, and marry each other because they want to. Because they like each other. It's not that fucking complicated. People generally date within their social circle and socioeconomic status. Only mentally ill, fucked up, immature, and controlling people are going to use each other for sex or money or whatever. Redpill doesn't abolish this, it fucking embraces it.

I think redpill and blackpill guys also label people as "orbiters" because they cannot understand the concept that sometimes people come across other potential romantic or sexual interests, but for whatever reason it doesn't always work out. Bad timing, feelings not reciprocated, sometimes people are better off as friends and they just don't completely hit it off in a sexual or romantic way. There's nothing wrong with it, but redpill makes it into something perverse and as if it's all the woman's fault because she's a controlling bitch. That's horseshit. Women get friendzoned too.

learn2earn89 · 2020-09-11T03:25:35+00:00

Well, I can tell you that I’ve never had an “orbiter” and most of the women in my age cohort that I’ve known settled down with one guy in their early twenties. My best friend met her husband in high school, married in their mid-twenties, and are now 30.

atman714 · 2020-09-12T20:44:25+00:00

80/20 is something I simply dont see in the real world. I didn't see it in high school. I didn't see it in college. And I don't see it now. I mean, I always like to say, just go out in public at a local coffee shop or something. Observe the couples there. Most of the time, everyone is average. You'll find some outliers, but for the most part, you're not seeing a bunch of "chads" out there with all the girls.

Circuit_Strike · 2020-09-13T11:30:03+00:00

I just want to add that studies have shown that women don't have a strong consensus on which men are attractive and not attractive. It seems to be more of an individual preference than what men find attractive.

"As a group, the women rating men showed some preference for thin, muscular subjects, but disagreed on how attractive many men in the study were. Some women gave high attractiveness ratings to the men other women said were not attractive at all."

Rating Attractiveness: Consensus Among Men, Not Women, Study Finds

Those findings are what I have observed as well. As a woman talking with other women about men's attractiveness there have been multiple times a female friend would talk about a guy like he's the most physically attractive guy to her and me not find him attractive at all.

It would seem to break down this 80/20 theory at least a little if women don't have a consensus on who is attractive/who they will sleep with and/or date.

unlivedbread · 2020-09-11T22:47:12+00:00

I havent really seen the orbiter thing alot, I have seen guys try and earn women (white knighting) but I also have seen and had women do the same to me

80/20 rule is undoubtably true 100% in my experience. But that more so applies to sex. Dating is less so skewed because looks aren't as important

globeglobeglobe · 2020-09-12T04:18:10+00:00

As others have mentioned, the 80/20 rule is an example of a Pareto principle, which results when initial concentration of some quantity (wealth, land, density) can compound on itself through various forces (compound interest, gravity, what have you).

Online dating (now accounting for ~40% of all couples meeting, and influencing "real life" as well) has the same compounding effect: the most-rightswiped (ergo, most-attractive) cards are placed at the top of the stack (so they get even more exposure and likes), while those who aren't quite so good-looking get pushed down the stack (which further reduces their exposure). These apps are designed to keep you single (and using their services), or perpetually "dating" and dissatisfied with your partners (so you keep using their services). It's a vicious cycle, as desperate men whom the apps have made invisible swipe right on virtually everything until essentially every girl has more attention ("orbiters") than she can deal with. And reinforcing all this is the fact that, in a deeply stratified society as we have now, male attention (especially from the most attractive; this applies just as well for men) functions as a form of social currency.

I don't think 80/20 is quite as severe as some fear (especially if you look for partners offline); people's relationships are a response to a wide range of social pressures, life aspirations, and attractions which have nothing to do with what I just detailed. But I don't think it's useful to outright dismiss (goes against the experience of men unsuccessful with online dating, and the fact that it's designed to make you unsuccessful) or to cop-out by saying shit like "it only applies to casual dating, not serious relationships" (which just reinforces "beta buxx" theory in the minds of vulnerable men). To the extent it exists, it's a product of society, and focusing one's hate on "female biology" or "human nature" is highly mistaken.

2020-09-11T11:23:10+00:00

80% of women would like to date 20% of men.
Doesn't mean they end up with those 20%, I've always interpreted it as most women feel like settling instead of building a live with an equal partner.
But I am not really redpilled to begin with.

Title	Orbiters
Author	RoseAvara
Upvotes	7
Comments	40
Date	September 11, 2020 12:18 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/iqfspr/orbiters/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/orbiters.214733 https://theredarchive.com/post/214733

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