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A study done by fellow questioning left wingers.

BrickDaddyShark

April 27, 2021
57 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair
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Post Information
Title A study done by fellow questioning left wingers.
Author

BrickDaddyShark

Upvotes 57
Comments 60
Date April 27, 2021 3:36 AM UTC
(5 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/mzfm3v/a_study_done_by_fellow_questioning_left_wingers/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/a-study-done-by-fellow-questioning-left-wingers.1061468
https://theredarchive.com/post/1061468
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Comments

[–]BrickDaddyShark[S] 23 points24 points25 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Three authors wrote several papers and submitted them to prominent left wing academic journals. These papers were completely bogus, but were accepted based on their conclusions alone. (One was litterally just reverse r/menkampf and got published)

[–]skellious 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Reminds me of the UMN debacle in the software world recently: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/linux-kernel-team-rejects-university-of-minnesota-researchers-apology/

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

This is interesting and I didn't know about it. And you are right, the two events are pretty similar.

"Hey look, your system is broken!"

"Our system works perfectly and you aren't allowed in anymore!"

[–]Admiralthrawnbar 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Completely different. They submitted changes that would have re-added previously patched vulnerabilities. When someone looked through it and noticed it, the changes were rejected and the university blacklisted. The equivalent would have been if they changes were accepted and actually rolled out

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The three researchers would then email their Trojan-horse patches to Linux kernel maintainers to see if the maintainers detected the more serious problem the researchers had introduced in the course of fixing a minor bug. Once the maintainers responded to the submitted patch, the UMN researchers pointed out the bug introduced by their patch and offered a "proper" patch—one that did not introduce a newly exploitable condition—in its place.

Where are you getting that the Linux devs noticed there vulnerability before being told about it? The only difference I see is that the people doing a "hoax" in the case, fessed up to it right away, while Lindsey and crew kept publishing bogus papers until they were caught.

[–]Sydnaktik 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Once the maintainers responded to the submitted patch

They say the maintainers responded, they didn't say what the response was.

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Literally just read the rest of that sentence. Why would the UMN researchers need to point out the bug of the devs saw it?

[–]bobbybobsonday 16 points17 points18 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think all these ridiculous diversity seminars have ultimately been born out of academia. a few years ago I scoffed at people who were alarmist about universities but now I really think its getting bad. in another 10 years who knows where we'll be at

[–]dzialamdzielo 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link

James Lindsay had since gone off the deep end of Trump apologia and conspiracy theorizing but Pluckrose is pretty solidly liberal, principled and generally sticks up for men when it matters.

[–]war6star 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Lindsay has said that the reason he has aligned himself with Trump and the Republicans is because he believes they are a lesser evil than the woke-controlled Democrats. I think he has somewhat of a point, though I still voted for Biden.

[–]Gamer_Jack_Gameson 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I disagree with him, then. The GOP is a far greater threat, not only to society but to our very existence. The party that denies climate change and does everything they can to speed its progress are much more dangerous than the party who denies mens' rights. Also, I have much more faith in liberals' ability to change and be better.

[–]war6star 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Also, I have much more faith in liberals' ability to change and be better.

Why do you say this? I want to share your optimism.

[–]Gamer_Jack_Gameson 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The left wing has always been the ideology of acceptace, open-mindedness, looking to the future, and change; and the right wing has always been the ideology of tradition, protecting what you have, and honoring the struggles of the past. These two positions are at odds and must constantly be balanced. Sometimes it is important to secure your resources and look to tradition for guidance with difficult problems, and sometimes it is important to leave the past behind and make progress towards a different future when tradition isn't working. I like the system we have in America because neither ideology should dominate all the time. Right now we need change, and our past behavior has led us down a dark path.

[–]war6star 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're right. I only hope we can restore that. Unfortunately though, I'm not sure a lot of people on the left still think of themselves as those things.

[–]Gamer_Jack_Gameson 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In some ways feminists hold ultraconservative values. It's crazy the level of discord among them.

[–]magus678 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I am aware he planned to vote for Trump but not of anything else. What is it he is guilty of?

[–]dzialamdzielo 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Claiming that Biden/the Dems stole the election through voter fraud

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

u/magus678 is right. I looked at your links and he is clearly trying to repackage woke logic in a satirical way, not actually claiming election fraud. The thing he is actually guilty of is being a provocateur.

[–]magus678 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The "James Lindsay, Critical Election Theorist, PhD" probably should have given it away, if the rest somehow didn't.

Anyone who fell for this, especially on this sub, really needs to give their balony detector a recalibration.

[–]plitox_is_a_bitch 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The thing he is actually guilty of is being a provocateur.

Which is something traditionally only reserved for women, who are allowed to be individuals.

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk about that. The first name that comes to mind when I think provocateur is Milo Yiannopoulos. It seems to me almost more of a men's thing or at least non gendered

[–]Gamer_Jack_Gameson -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Huh? You shouldn't generalize about an entire gender. Thats what we're here to fight.

[–]magus678 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If you are referring to the facebook post linked downstream, it is obviously a tongue and cheek repackaging of woke "infographics."

[–]dzialamdzielo -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

He did it repeatedly for weeks at a time - once or twice is a cutesy thing but he seems to legit believe it. Especially paired with his legitimate support of Trump

[–]magus678 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

He did it repeatedly for weeks at a time - once or twice is a cutesy thing but he seems to legit believe it

Do you have something else supporting this? If he was willing to post his own infographic once I don't think it is particularly damning he would be willing to post it again.

An infographic, I might add, that doesn't even say there is fraud, but rather that the people that are saying there isn't, are deriving benefit from it, even if you somehow don't notice it is a joke.

Especially paired with his legitimate support of Trump

Lets see what his legitimate support looks like. It seems that in response to a call for the "American left to work towards abolishing the constitution":

Frankly going to unhappily vote Republican, including Trump, until the left walks this shit all the way back.

That seems pretty reluctant to me. In that context I'd do the same damn thing.

Frankly my friend, you seem to have very much drank the kool-aid on this one and should reassess your position. And while you are there, examine what prior beliefs led you to make such a low level error; the mechanisms that led to this one can be certain to lead to others.

[–]MelissaMiranti 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, the American Left should probably be in favor of rewriting the constitution to include a ton of innovations and changes in democracy that have happened over the last 234 years.

[–]magus678 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Amendments are a thing. "Abolishing" the constitution is not that. Nor is trying to run the country without a document at all (?!).

Its not defensible.

[–]MelissaMiranti 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To anarchists it is, but I'm not one of those, so I definitely wouldn't say it.

Amendments don't cover the extent of the overhaul we need, I'd say.

[–]dzialamdzielo -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I genuinely don’t care enough to sift back through months worth of social media from someone who I think is a right wing idiot.

Sorry that’s not gonna be convincing for you but there’s only so much time in the day.

[–]magus678 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This was your claim. Don't act like you can't be bothered just because someone held you to task on it and you found out you couldn't back it up.

You should edit your post to reflect you were wrong. He doesn't deserve to be slandered for no reason.

[–]BrickDaddyShark[S] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

Yeah ppl have been telling me lidnsey went off into neverland. Mad hatter needs to take his pills

[–]magus678 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

Did they say why this is so?

[–]BrickDaddyShark[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Just that he went full trump wacko in their words

[–]magus678 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Eh I'd probably insist on a higher standard of proof before lampooning someone. Third party "trust me bro" is usually a poor heuristic.

[–]CXnhtPKxSd3Jmdxt 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

No bro drumpf bad trust me.

He like drumpf = he bad dumdum

[–]dzialamdzielo -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

He went into voter fraud conspiracy land. It's not just that supporting Trump signals that you're not a liberal, spewing the voter fraud conspiracies signals you've stopped thinking critically altogether

[–]CXnhtPKxSd3Jmdxt 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Oh aye?

Haven't seen this particular set of videos or whatever regarding voter fraud, but you're saying it's nutso crazy town?

There's a big difference between screeching aimlessly with no reference to reality and doing some unimpassioned analysis or discussion about parts of an election process, surely?

Liberally labeling or dismissing things as a conspiracy theory stinks of a lack of critical thinking too, to me.

But hey I appreciate if it's just shorthand for "I heard what he had to say and it's just nutjobbery".

Not that every theory or whatever is on equal footing or worth getting in to.

Personally I'm pretty far removed from American politics as a foreigner and so I have maybe the luxury of not taking it as seriously - I do think there are some interesting characteristics of the recent election and they would benefit from calm unimpassioned explanations.

Usually behind every unhinged conspiracy there's a much more mundane and un-sexy set of complicated but ultimately innocent explanations for each of the conspiracy-inducing characteristics.

It's a shame we don't see more effort to put the whole thing to bed by breaking down some of the sexy sounding conspiracies with the banal realities.

For instance, I see much made of the raw number of votes received by Biden - significantly more than ever before - and I'm left wondering if it's mostly a consequence of the much greater emphasis on mail-in voting thanks to the pandemic, which may have simply lowered the bar of required effort to vote with everyone being served a ballot by default.

Were there a lot of essentially unactivated potential voters that in other elections wouldn't have bothered? Do these kinds of voters skew Democrat?

All interesting stuff, but I fear even the topic gets branded as conspiracy theory rather than an interesting case study with plenty to learn about.

Surely the parties should be taking notes in detail on what happened and why.

[–]matrixislife 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The idea of "shout something down to dismiss it" instead of arguing the pros and cons should be anathema to this sub. After all, every time they try to raise a point with other left-wing people they are going to get shouted down. Is that going to be it? The end of the discussion? Piss-awful activists if that stops them dead in their tracks.

Idgaf if something quacks like a duck, if it's relevant it needs discussion. And the possibility of fraud in the presence of anomalous voting records is relevant.

[–]CXnhtPKxSd3Jmdxt 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Haha yeah, that guy brought up critical thinking and then trotted out 'quacks like, looks like...', good times.

Right, and wouldn't the best way to make a full and appropriate mockery of so-called conspiracy theory nutjobs regarding the election, to steal their steam, be through laying out and examining what made the election so different this time around?

They're wild-eyed and jabbering about various talking points on things that are factually different from previous elections, just pretending it wasn't and walking away with your ears plugged seems... Counter productive.

In any case this upswell in democrat votes is a huge win for left-wing people, why the aggressive disinterest in understanding where they came from?

Again, I'm not expecting some black ops secret conspiracy I'm expecting some banal but very interesting details about previously unactivated voters, the accessibility of mail votes, demographic shifts, all kinds of things to look into and realise.

There seems to have been a goldmine of untapped democrat votes --- surely everyone would want to know how to continue to maximally access them.

It wouldn't surprise me if the democrat party is looking into this very carefully and tries to get mail in ballots served by default even after the pandemic - which should be telling in that they see something in it.

Likewise I'd expect the republicans to be very interested to know if they can do better in this regard, or if they need to madly insist on no mail-in ballots by default in future, as it threatens their degree of representation.

[–]matrixislife1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

In any case this upswell in democrat votes is a huge win for left-wing people, why the aggressive disinterest in understanding where they came from?

Indeed. The obvious answer is that the people defending it privately have doubts about the situation, but politics prevent them from discussing them.

The one issue I saw was when a Dem candidate was trailing, but then had an injection of votes into the count putting them into the lead. It's been hand-waved away as being a new mail-in box being opened, yet that would bring with it at least a few Rep votes, and the tallies showed 100% votes going the Dem way, statistically impossible without fraud. I assume there is an explanation for it, but I haven't seen a realistic one yet.

It's a huge issue for elections, yet seems to get ignored except within a month of election day. It's very curious that both Dem and Rep parties assert there's no fraud ever in elections, despite there being proven instances of it.

[–]CXnhtPKxSd3Jmdxt1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah there were all kinds of odd things taking place and being seized upon during and immediately after the election.

Not to overly reiterate but my default stance is there's usually a pretty uninteresting and innocent, sometimes incompetent explanation for a lot of quirky things that can happen in big complex undertakings like the entire election process.

It's just a shame it seems so hard to get cool calm coverage of the happenings and unimpassioned insight into them.

Maybe in the following years we'll get a good book or two breaking it down, hopefully with as little political bent as possible.

[–]matrixislife1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think it's possible to get an unbiased account of any event happening nowadays, the journos have mostly gone off the deep end fighting the wars rather than reporting on them, which means the rest of us are completely out of the loop with no legitimate or trustworthy sources of information.

I believe that's going to be the first sign that we're recovering from the insanity, when we get honest reporting on events.

[–]magus678 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The idea of "shout something down to dismiss it" instead of arguing the pros and cons should be anathema to this sub

Really of anyone that has ever actually held a contrary-to-popular opinion, but yeah seeing it on this sub in particular seems very much missing the whole point.

Like, they don't see shouting things down as bad; they just see shouting the wrong things down as bad, and the right things as good. No bad methods, only bad targets. Why yes, it just so happens they are the ones who decide the difference, why do you ask?

These are the secret and not-so-secret authoritarians that see a boot on someone's neck and whose primary issue is whose neck and who gets to wear the boot.

[–]matrixislife1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sooner or later they will realise that they are NOT the ones who decide who's neck gets the boot, and that their own opinions are leading them towards a tarmac-kissing event. I wonder if that event will get them to reconsider their thoughts on how free speech is important to them, or whether they'll just flip opinions to be on the majority side.

[–]magus6781 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There is a phrase, mostly used about the right, which is the idea that they believe they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires," and so resist efforts to dismantle economic mechanisms that might not be serving them right now, because they think one day that will change.

I think the left is essentially guilty of the same dynamic, but socially. They don't want to dismantle hierarchies, they just want to change who is at the top of them. Hence the brutal hostility to egalitarianism or race blindness.

Which if you are taking them at their word, seems like a very mixed signal. But if you realize that they will say/believe whatever is required to climb to the next rung, their behavior stops being dissonant and becomes merely villainous.

[–]matrixislife1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sorry for the late reply, didn't realise you'd answered.

The phrase I heard was "Americans are temporarily embarrassed millionaires", no reference to political leanings. Americans in general are much more right-wing orientated than Europeans though.

I'm not sure about the left being willing to keep social systems, I've seen quite a few talking about 'burning it all down' in order to replace it, but yeah, then they will be at the top of that particular ladder. Of course the real problem is, if that happens and they aren't at the top of the ladder, they have just destroyed the social systems that [mostly] stops them being abused. Which wouldn't bother me too much, except everyone else would be dropped in the shit as well.

[–]dzialamdzielo -5 points-4 points-3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If it walks like a duck (votes for Trump) and talks like a duck (repeats unhinged GOP talking points repeatedly), then it’s probably a duck.

[–]CXnhtPKxSd3Jmdxt 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Gottem, drumpf / republicans bad.

[–]dzialamdzielo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean... yes? This is a left wing sub, look at the URL, bud

[–]a-man-from-earth4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is a left wing sub

That does not mean we are without nuance.

Like some people use that as an argument we should be feminist by default...

[–]Blauwpetjevalued LWMA contributor 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

As far as I know, he thought Biden such a bad choice as a president that he preferred Trump. Debatable to say the least, but far from 'going full Trump wacko'. His site https://newdiscourses.com/ is quite interesting.

[–]magus678 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Debatable to say the least, but far from 'going full Trump wacko'

My personal heuristic for most claims like this is that, usually, a smart person suddenly becoming dumb is unlikely. If your basis of deciding on newfound stupidity is political, it becomes even less likely.

Which seems to have served me well in this instance.

[–]turbulance4left-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Debatable to say the most I think. I mean, Biden is openly supporting racial discrimination from his first day in office. At least Trump kept his racism under warps.

[–]dzialamdzielo -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The dude spent several weeks after the election moaning about imaginary voting fraud. That's what's full whacko.

https://twitter.com/conceptualjames/status/1344732908116963329

[–]dzialamdzielo -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Insinuating that Biden stole the election is just fact-free kuckoo nonsense

https://www.facebook.com/ConceptualJames/posts/political-comfort-maintains-election-fraud-complicity/215825419950694/

EDIT: removed point A because I forgot which sub I was in. Podcast I referred to was Blocked and Reported with Jesse Singal and Katie Herzog.

[–]magus678 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a joke post lampooning woke "infographics."

Poe's law in full effect.

[–]dzialamdzielo -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s not just the one time, then that might be valid. But he kept/keeps repeating it and that, paired with his actual Trump support, is enough for me to think he actually believes it.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As with the study referenced in OP, I have the distinct impression that he's doing another performative hoax.

[–]Quix_Nix 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a jre episode, very good

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess it's time for this repost. Although, I don't mind. Whenever someone says that they do social studies, I deploy this.

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