"Men should be drafted/conscripted because they are more capable fighter, not because of their sex" is the dumbest argument

SweatyPainting6398 · 2023-03-02T12:32:45+00:00

I love if you argue women should have to drafted, because of pure equality, that’s when all the feminists come out and say there shouldn’t be a draft in the first place.

TisIChenoir · 2023-03-02T16:25:12+00:00

I don't remember who, but someone said that "sure, women have had a hard time in history. But given the fact that men have been sent to die in wars for thousands of years, with no regard for their wishes or feelings, saying that men hvae always been and still are oppressors is an insult to all those victims of war in history"

hendrixski · 2023-03-02T16:42:41+00:00

For every one person who's fighting on the field there are hundreds of people supporting them by sitting at a desk or driving supplies etc. There's no need for conscripting based on capable fighters.

But even if you wanted to conscript based on capable fighters, then you wouldn't conscript based on a proxy with a low level of correlation, you would conscript based on actual fighting capability. Meaning that weak men would not get drafted but strong women would.

The only reason men get drafted is because of the momentum of history in which men have been oppressed for thousands of years. That legacy of oppression continues to shape our opinions today and the people who normalize men being drafted are just perpetuating ancient injustices.

ThunderClap449 · 2023-03-02T12:23:09+00:00

"yeah, average dude is certainly more physically capable than Ronda Rousey" is the kinda logic I fucking love seeing.

hshsgdve · 2023-03-03T04:18:11+00:00

This might get downvoted to oblivion, but gents, when will you learn that most women are outwardly progressive and internally conservative.

They can’t just come out in this cultural climate and tell their feminist friends that they’re conservative 😂 they’d be entirely excluded.

Digger_is_taken · 2023-03-02T16:09:43+00:00

I don't think that this is an argument often made by feminists. can you show me an example?

crz8956 · 2023-03-03T07:41:25+00:00

You got right points. And, by the way, until there is a male-only draft, feminists should not have a say in this question at all. They are not ones who will risk their lives in battlefield.

War situation should not justify conscription, same as it does not justify slavery nor forced prostitution or rape, nor does it justify forced child birth for not having enough meat shields, nor does it justified robbing its citizen for provisions because it lacks supply.

Yeah, I hear this argument quite often, and partially I can agree with it.

But I have a question: what instead of drafting capable people (of both sexes, in my opinion) should be done in times of war? What solution can you offer, if we agree that war does not justify conscription?

I should note, that I am not talking about overseas wars for mineral oil. I am talking about situation of immediate danger to countries existence. Defence war. Like the one going on in Ukraine, for example?

I get that, most people here, are probably USA- based and have a hard time imagining situation when you face the need to fight defensive war. We too, here, in Kyiv, had a hard time imagining this situation before 2014 and 2022. But still. What's your solution?

Hallellujahh · 2023-03-02T13:18:17+00:00

i have seen no one arguing this, every feminist ive seen who has brought this topic up argues that forced conscription should be eliminated for both genders not just women

Asriel-SIU · 2023-03-03T08:01:57+00:00

The reason men are drafted and not women simply has to do with male disposability. Women are more necessary to the survival of a group than men are, simply because of how reproduction works. Add to the fact that men are biologically better suited to fight, and this is why men are drafted and women are not. Men and women are more similar than they are different, but these differences are crucial.

BloomingBrains · 2023-03-03T03:12:21+00:00

I believe there should be a draft. If you're not willing to defend the country, then you don't deserve to live in it (note: this does not include wars fought for bullshit reasons like the US war in Iraq or Vietnam, only actual wars fought to literally defend your country).

However, I would want it to be truly random who gets picked. That way if I got picked, I would be able to resign myself to fate, knowing it wasn't a selfish decision by someone, but truly and dispassionately random. In order to be truly random, that means both sexes getting drafted.

If women want an equal level of power in society, that means equal responsibility. They have to be willing to take the same risks as men. Otherwise that is the same power with less investment, which ends up being more power in the end. Imagine if there was another World War, and millions of men died. Modern radical woke feminism would only cement itself even stronger. Women would get pushed even higher up in society until it became even more top heavy.

Strength has nothing to do with it. Wars are fought in the 21st century mainly with intelligence. If you can't be a regular soldier, you can be a medic or drone operator, regardless of sex. By saying women can't be expected to do these things, its almost like saying they are less capable than men.

toocoolforcovid · 2023-03-17T16:18:28+00:00

To be honest with you, I think you've entirely missed the point here. The main reason that feminists you hear say that is because it's a talking point they don't want to address and this is the least bad argument they can come up with to move on when discussing a point that so obviously effects men. Conscription doesn't even cross most feminists' minds.

Most feminists who actually think about conscription will normally say something along the lines of: it's a masculin institution trying to normalise hyper-masculinity in men to better help them keep the societal norm of keeping women oppressed. Obviously, I'm being slightly flipant with the way I explain that viewpoint because here, it's feminists making a men's issue about them. The reason that men have been conscripted is because as a sexually dimorphic species men were better suited to the role.

The issue here is that it normalises this idea of male-expendability. We should have moved on past this, but the fact that we don't talk about it properly and the fact that no one seems to care shows that there is a double standard in effect about moving on from the societal roles we fell into due to how we evolved to be dimorphic as a species and the fact that we aren't talking about the fact that the perception of male-expendability is still a problem in our society, that no one cares about this as an issue.

Title	"Men should be drafted/conscripted because they are more capable fighter, not because of their sex" is the dumbest argument
Author	Starforce2005
Upvotes	66
Comments	37
Date	March 2, 2023 12:13 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/11fmy8z/men_should_be_draftedconscripted_because_they_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/men-should-be-draftedconscripted-because-they-are.1153884 https://theredarchive.com/post/1153884

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