My take on "5 seemingly harmless things that are actually sexist."

mtcapri · 2020-01-29T23:10:31+00:00

Can't say I'm all that impressed by this, to be honest. It's exclusively about sexism against women, which is in and of itself sexist.

1.) Expecting women to always smile.

Barely anyone does this anymore.

2.) Backing off only when she says she's 'taken.'

This happens because plenty of women actually do accept a guy's advances after initially turning him down, which trains men to keep trying. Men are the performers when it comes to courtship, and women the gatekeepers. Saying it's sexist of men to keep trying to get inside the gate, when such persistence frequently works, is asinine. It's not sexist, it's just an often-successful sexual strategy that other women wish didn't actually work.

3.) Declaring you're in the 'friendzone.'

This is an utter crock of shit. Friendzone principally refers to the notion that, once a woman starts thinking of you as a friend, she'll never think of you as anything else. It refers to male frustration at his advances being mistaken as bids for platonic friendship, when they're really sexual/romantic courtship. It has nothing to do with denying women the right to reject them.

4.) Using sexist language.

This is the only one in the list that is even remotely true, but it doesn't comment on the negative aspects of phrases like "man up" for men.

5.) Not calling out your mates.

This isn't sexist, it's just not helping to combat sexism. And once again, there's not an iota of attention paid to how women don't call out their girlfriends for misandrist behavior.

Sorry, OP, but I think this article is just evidence that many people today don't think men can be victims of sexism too, and that people concerned about sexism against women frequently take a completely gynocentric approach and only ever look at the issues from women's perspectives (which is misandrist).

Tmomp · 2020-01-29T20:32:55+00:00

Assuming someone is privileged for being a man.

thereslcjg2000 · 2020-01-29T17:43:49+00:00

The other annoying thing about the “friend zone” is that it’s presented by feminists as more of a gendered phenomenon than it actually is. I’ve heard plenty of women be disappointed about a male friend putting them in the “friend zone.”

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2020-01-29T20:52:16+00:00

The issue with demonizing the "friendzone" and "nice guys" is essentially one in the same.

Guys are taught that the only acceptable way to express interest in a woman is to be extra nice.

They want to say she's hot. They want to say they want to kiss her. They want to ask her on a date. They want to express their sexual interest. They want to express their romantic interest.

But it's been hammered into their heads that those things are predatory. That they have to hide those interests until the woman signals them that it's OK.

And with the dynamics of the dating world. That just doesn't happen.

cromulent_weasel · 2020-01-29T20:58:00+00:00

I agree that the #3 point in the article is off the mark.

There's a myth or false narrative about the 'nice guy' with the 'put niceness in, get sex out' entitlement. But that's a lie. If all a 'nice guy' wanted was sex, he could easily visit a prostitute.

Nice guys want a romantic relationship. And while they aren't OWED a relationship by anybody, being rejected and lonely sucks.

So I don't think that that point fits with the theme of the article.

The other four points are good (although I even have a problem with 'man up' as gendered as well. I prefer 'put on your big boy/girl pants' instead)

Melthengylf · 2020-01-29T20:12:24+00:00

Yes, what causes me extreme pain about this narrative about "friendzoning" is two-fold: on one hand, it takes "sex" as being some kind of evil manipulative thing on itself, and on the other hand, it dismisses the caring and loveful feelings of the guy. Now, in a sense, guys that complain about being friendzoning are kind of manipulating, but of course, this is a consecquence of not being able to express in a healthy way their feelings. And this narrative -which is extremely judgemental- kind of ensures these guys will continue being ashamed of their feeling, not expressing them and exploding in manipulative ways.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2020-01-30T12:13:03+00:00

Women are never called out for complaining that men just "use" them for sex when really the women wanted a long term relationship (even though this was never discussed as part of the arrangement).

Male, female, gay, straight it doesn't matter: it sucks when the person you're interested in isn't interested in you in the same way.

That's it. It's not some patriarchal conspiracy or male entitlement or toxic masculinity or rape culture.

Most everyone has probably experienced this at some point. Men don't shame women for the. Feminists need to cut the routine of pretending this is exclusively something men do and it's proof of how terrible men are.

romulusnr · 2020-01-29T21:12:19+00:00

The first time I heard the phrase "friend zone" was from a female friend in college who was describing how she perceives guys. She literally said "some guys are just in the zone" of not being a dating interest.

serpentineeyelash · 2020-01-30T05:19:43+00:00

1.) Expecting women to always smile.

This claim baffles me because I'm a man, and I've often been told to smile by both my dad and my therapist.

And feminists are constantly pressuring men to show more emotions, but demonize men for showing negative emotions, which suggests feminists only want to hear positive emotions from men.

So this doesn't seem like a particularly gendered issue, and in some ways it's men who are being pressured to change their emotional display.

I don't think that guys who complain about the Friend zone are really after sex per-say. If that is what they wanted, they could just go to bars and clubs like everyone else does. I think that what they want is an intimate relationship.

That is part of it but I think sex is also part of the story. Not everyone can easily get sex by going to bars and clubs. I know I personally don't function well in crowded environments with loud music, because I struggle to distinguish people's voices from each other, let alone think of witty banter to add to the conversation.

And yes I suppose there are always sex workers, but personally I'm not sure how I'd feel about paying for it.

As some others have said, I think the bigger problem with this feminist argument is that it demonizes men for wanting sex. Why is it considered such a terrible thing to want sex?

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to comment on the question of whether the "friendzone" is a real phenomenon. It might be overstated - people often meet partners through friendships, so it’s not like friendship per se prevents a sexual or romantic relationship developing. Still, men who complain about the “friendzone” are clearly experiencing something real, whether it be due to them being unattractive, or because they can’t figure out how to express their sexual interest in a socially-normative manner and timeframe without being perceived as merely friendly.

romulusnr · 2020-01-29T21:21:30+00:00

After skimming the article, nah, that's just a bunch of equivocating to paint men as bad people.

When a man likes a woman but she doesn't reciprocate he should just stfu and back off. But when a woman likes a man and he doesn't reciprocate he's an asshole.

When men don't call out other men for being toxic they're part of the problem. When women don't call out other women for being toxic it's "not their responsibility" or even justified.

Expecting women to smile is sexist. Expecting men to be tall or strong is not sexist. Go home.

This article isn't just bullshit, it's not even remotely well thought out.

BannanasAreEvil · 2020-01-29T20:19:03+00:00

Putting someone in the friendzone is all about power, women and men do it most of the time knowingly. Having someone in the friendzone no matter the gender involved has a large amount of benefits to those who did it.

For instance you know the person in your friendzone is 99% dependable in time of need. A breakup, sick, bored, stressed, broke, hungry, need a lift? Etc are all ways people use those in the friendzone for their own needs and wants and its advantageous to keep someone in the friendzone for those reasons.

I've never been in the friendzone myself but I have put 2 women and one gay man in the friendzone before when I was younger (and not all at once). Be completely honest, it felt good knowing that those people would do almost anything I wanted when I wanted in the hopes that somehow I would fall in love with them.

So when I hear stories about the friendzone not existing, or that the victims of the friendzone are the "unknowing" party who had "no idea they felt that way about me" I want to puke. It's so blatantly obvious when you friendzone someone because most people are not so damn daft.

mensmod · 2020-01-29T21:01:48+00:00

The friendzone arguments are always used to distract from the real implications of the term.

Socially, men true to woo partners by showing how much they can provide for that partner. The friendzone describes a relationship in which women accept the provisions provided while stringing along the male - not outright rejecting the advances and hinting at the possibility that romance might happen if only more provisions occur.

It isn't about men being nice, it is about men engaging in a classical mating ritual that benefits women and women using that to their benefit by hinting at reciprocation if only they receive more, staying in the "friendzone" until that occurs.

omegaphallic · 2020-01-30T01:28:31+00:00

The article was written by feminist idiots because feminists have nothing left to fight for.

Title	My take on "5 seemingly harmless things that are actually sexist."
Author	Sewblon
Upvotes	34
Comments	20
Date	January 29, 2020 5:17 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/evpthf/my_take_on_5_seemingly_harmless_things_that_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/my-take-on-5-seemingly-harmless-things-that-are.1201000 https://theredarchive.com/post/1201000

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