About the term "real feminist".

Input_output_error · 2021-06-12T08:34:16+00:00

The following is a very informed and highly reusable comment by KarenStraughan in response to a feminist who thinks the many blatant sexistsamong feminists aren't real feminists:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive,well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists". That's not just "no true Scotsman".

That's delusional self deception.Listen,if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls.

"You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head ofAlberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence,because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member ofthe House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's"part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there.

You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers,thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet

mikesteane · 2021-06-12T08:47:39+00:00

For me the word "feminist" is a term of abuse so that "real feminist" is like saying "real dickhead".

Suck-Less · 2021-06-12T08:59:47+00:00

There are two kinds of feminists: those that are loud misandrist and those that agree in silence. The quiet ones will speak up but only when with we call the misandrist’s feminists. They will almost never speak up against the misandrist themselves.

Why? Because they actually agree.

d_nijmegen · 2021-06-12T10:44:04+00:00

I just answer, rapist aren't "real" men. Neither are other men who behave badly. See? Problem solving skills!

Punder_man · 2021-06-12T07:12:24+00:00

My issue is when a self identifying feminist says that the feminists who use #killallmen or otherwise spew forth misandry towards men are not "True Feminists" they are essentially trying to downplay the numbers to make it seem like only an extremely small number of feminists are like that..

Its the No true Scottsman fallacy and instead of admitting that YES there ARE women in the group that identify as feminists whom are misandrists they instead continue to shield / protect them.

They will then go on and on about how a "Real" feminist believes in equality.. etc.. but the problem is its quite clear cut that the "Real" feminists aren't doing a damn thing to call out the "fake" feminists for their misandry and hijacking of their movement..

The answer to all this is to tell them that actions speak louder than words and once we see the "True Feminists" shutting down the misandrists maybe then we'll believe that feminism cares for equality.. but as it stands right now Feminism is a supremacy movement with the goals of benefiting women to the detriment of men.

To the lurking feminists on this sub.. feel free to change my mind.. but I'm not holding my breath.

DavidByron2 · 2021-06-12T17:04:31+00:00

real Nazis aren't racist!

obligatoryclevername · 2021-06-12T19:29:23+00:00

A "real feminist" is anyone who identifies themselves as a feminist. Yes, the meaning of that term is broad but it almost always means that someone puts women's concerns above men's concerns, instead of on an even footing. Far to often, it's means that the feminist hates a group of people for being born different than themselves.

seii7 · 2021-06-12T19:03:54+00:00

I think the real issue with people using terms like "real feminist" or "all feminists" is that there are like 40 different kinds of feminism and they don't all believe the same things and sometimes believe contradictory things. So it's not a very useful construct to say "all feminists believe X" or "A real Feminist does Y" because it's probably not accurate.

For instance a Gender Critical Feminist who believes gender is a social construct, we make up gender roles and a woman is what ever we say it is vs a Radicap Feminist who believes that gender and gender roles have a biological basis, women are a definable group of people that meet certain criteria. Or a second wave Feminist who believes women have the same rights as men to strap on thier boots and enter the jungle that is life vs a fourth wave/corporate Feminist that believes women need institutional powers to protect them and thier interests from men and and ensure specific outcomes.

BornAgainSpecial · 2021-06-12T10:22:14+00:00

"Biden/Hillary/Obama aren't real liberals". No, they're just the ones in charge. That's all...

The dynamic is everywhere. Powerless individual insists no true Scotsman for the entire leadership. It's not just 90% of the other feminists. It's the feminist agenda, set by the leadership. Feminism is in favor of circumcision. It wouldn't matter if 99% of rank and file feminists were against it.

Fickle-Investment-91 · 2021-06-12T08:10:21+00:00

yes!

jeff_the_nurse · 2021-06-12T15:11:58+00:00

See, that’s the thing. When you point out these misandrists, it’s more important for “real feminists” to tell you that “those aren’t real feminists” than it is for them to actually tell these misandrists that they’re not being real feminists.

auMatech · 2021-06-12T15:17:35+00:00

It's basically the no true Scotsman fallacy

justsomeregret · 2021-06-13T08:20:52+00:00

I would say that that the fake feminist are the minority as being a feminist just means you Beleive in equality most everyone's a feminist just not nearly as vocal as some if those monsters

thesmuser · 2021-06-13T23:03:22+00:00

all the feminists are men hater. some of them are louder, other don't explicitly say it to avoid confrontation but they hate men too. i was literally banned from 2x chromosomes 1 year ago because i said that male victims of rape deserve the same support of female victims of rape...

i met only 1 feminist in my whole lifetime that genuinely wanted to help both men and women. radical feminists don't exist. they are all misandrists. the "radical feminists" are only louder and are not afraid to say how much they hate men

ThisIsTheEnd6 · 2021-06-12T11:06:57+00:00

Feminists say the mens rights movement is hateful and that the majority are bad.

Mens rights groups say feminists are hateful and the majority are bad.

But if you got 100 feminists and MRAs in a room and asked them if they want to lower male suicide, give women maternity leave, fix male mental health, reduce sexual assault rates, reduce incarceration rates of non violent men.

Probably 99 out of 100 say yes to all those questions.

Feminists and MRAs really aren't that different. Most are just people that from within their group, have been given a bad sample size of what the other group represents and made assumptions.

Progress would be much better for the two groups to share overlapping ideologies rather than waste countless time complaining about eachother.

Vindaloo-brication · 2021-06-12T06:55:53+00:00

This sub has been co-opted by meninists, so yeah preaching to the choir here.

Lilkidyunginjr · 2021-06-12T08:52:13+00:00

The problem is that you’re describing 5% or less of feminist... has anyone ever actually heard the term “mansplaining” or “man spreading” ever spoken in real life. I doubt it. It’s not a real confer or threat, or very related to feminism at all. It’s just a fun topic to discuss on YouTube or Reddit.

I just go by what i see irl. I’d say most people i interact with would be self described feminists, and they are not insane about it. Neither am i. Your definition is not more valid than the dictionary

“Meninist” another term that probably no one has ever spoken ever, it’s only ever been typed out by trolls and bored people online. I thought that was just a funny twitter account in like 2015.

I joined this sub expecting content on homelessness, mental illness, high rates of suicide, fatherhood, domestic violence, etc real problems men are facing. Meanwhile a majority of the posts i see here are complaining about 3rd wave feminism or make-believe topics like man spreading. Absolutely pathetic

Title	About the term "real feminist".
Author	seii7
Upvotes	52
Comments	48
Date	June 12, 2021 6:53 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ny0onm/about_the_term_real_feminist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/about-the-term-real-feminist.826410 https://theredarchive.com/post/826410

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