Can statistics be trusted when it comes to things like how women might be suffering from more domestic violence than men and things like that?

Nevarinin512 · 2023-01-03T21:43:15+00:00

Statistics =/= statistics

It completely depends on the study and their methods. A lot of people don’t even read actual studies nor do they understand them correctly.

Methodology matters a lot, how the study defines something matters a lot and often those definitions have very little to do with how the same words might be defined in a casual conversation.

Aedrian87 · 2023-01-03T22:10:24+00:00

Those are known as shadow statistics, and by the very fact of being unreported, you can't do more than an approximation. There are many reasons why men theoretically underreport said crimes, to the point where often times in cases of violence, men are the victims, call for help and are also the ones ordered to leave their own homes, because the police are moving the "most dangerous" part out of the equation.

Sure, women suffer similar situations, especially evidenced in multiple cases of women victims of DV, who are married to cops who make the calls for help go away.

Which in short can be read as, statistics have blind spots, so it is a good idea to not only look at the numbers on your sources, but actually read said sources. And their study methods.

A lot of studies from the early 2000s up to around 2015 are heavily skewed in a way that artificially promotes women's rights, in order to chase funding. So once you read their methodology you realize that they aren't being honest indicators. For instance, the now barely used but still infamous ratio of One in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives can be found on that hyperlink. Which in reality is not a study, it is a compendium of statistics, that points to this actual study. In it, go to page 17 of the study(Page 27 on the actual pdf), and you will see why it is so skewed.

If you are tired already, here is the part I wanted to point out.

Rape is defined as any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent. Rape is separated into three types, completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, and completed alcohol or drug facilitated penetration.

- Among women, rape includes vaginal, oral, or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It also includes vaginal or anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object.

- Among men, rape includes oral or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It also includes anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object.

And as a bonus, this one is entirely self reported, so it should also be taken with a grain of salt. Also, if you consider the amount of time and effort that it took me to put this comment together, do research and chase sources vs googling the statistic directly and just pasting the link, you will be reminded of this.

https://images.prismic.io/sketchplanations/71d30e66-9038-498d-8d8c-6bf45cd53760_SP+677+-+The+BS+asymmetry+principle+-+large.png?auto=format&ixlib=react-9.0.3&h=1887.5043029259896&w=1600

Edit: Added the sketchplanation as an example.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-01-03T21:47:42+00:00

recent post on the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/102fwns/why_do_we_get_domestic_violence_so_wrong/

older post (mine) on the history of this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uar2z4/in_light_of_the_johnny_depp_amber_heard_case_lets/

icemanww15 · 2023-01-03T23:59:32+00:00

statistics can never really be trusted until u examined them very closely and even than its not real evidence but mere tendencies or probabilities

Different_Weekend817 · 2023-01-03T22:55:30+00:00

it's impossible to measure actual criminal activity because much of it goes by unreported. all statistics tell us is how many convictions were secured; they don't even necessarily tell us how many instances were reported that didn't go to trial cuz there wasn't enough evidence to attempt to prosecute. hence, statistics must be treated for what they are and not what we hope them to be.

the other thing is just because there wasn't a conviction doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed; it just means it wasn't proven in a court of law.

Maleficent-Life4799 · 2023-01-03T22:05:50+00:00

A professor Elizabeth Bates of the university of Lancaster UK has written several papers on domestic abuse against men, check out her research papers on the subject.

ExMuzzy · 2023-01-03T22:42:13+00:00

I don’t think they can be trusted. The legislation for rape is different depending on the perpetrator’s gender in the UK. Which means women cannot be charged with rape. I could not find any statistics for ‘causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent’, the charge women receive for rape.

I know the cdc had female-on-male rape categorised as “made to penetrate”.

Also, even some feminists have written articles stating that female on male dv has been downplayed in order to acquire funding for women’s organisations.

ChaosOpen · 2023-01-04T01:32:06+00:00

Well, the thing is the statistics might be more accurate than people let on, with the majority of physical violence perpetrated by men. However, striking someone is not the only way to control someone. Social consequences are a very real threat in an internet connected world and an accusation of rape or DV can spread very fast and even if the truth does come out it won't get a fraction of the attention.

Numerous_Ad9810 · 2023-01-04T03:13:15+00:00

The statistics would never include attacks by her family members but should when it seems she encouraged the attacks. Happened to me three times.

XennoJiiva · 2023-01-04T09:47:47+00:00

Actually statistics show domestic violence is pretty much 50/50, it doesn't say at all women suffer more. Only thing it shows is that men get arrested more since when a call is made people need to be separated and it ends up in men being the ones taken away. The woman who started the first women shelter Erin Pizzey got kicked out of her own shelters for doing research on this for yours and co concluding that DM cases are about 50/50 and women initiated in 70+% of cases. By far how it goes is a woman starting and a man ending it.

This didn't sit well with the feminists and she basically got kicked out of the organisations she herself founded. You can read all about this as there are different videos in youtube and articles on the internet. So the notion that women suffer more from DM is false and it's always been known that women mostly initiate it.

The truth is if you go to the cops to say you're abused as a man you mostly get ridiculed. And by far the reaction most men got according to research is "what did you do to make her hit you?"

I also want to add that research shows domestic violence is much more prominent is lesbian relationships. The numbers are much higher than in heterosexual relationships and gay men seem to have the lowest number.

This shows you again that even in same sex relationships women and women beat eachother at a fat higher rate with gay men being the lowest.

seriouslyuncouth_ · 2023-01-04T12:16:43+00:00

Most forms of statistics can be skewed; basically the only ones you can trust are stuff like "this is how much (x) was recorded in (y) year"

The "was recorded" is the important part. You can't posit that every instance was recorded, all you can really say is "this is all of what we know". Trying to pull meaning from statistics gathered on things that are really hard to prove like domestic violence is better then nothing I guess. But there's gonna be an absolute metric fuckton of domestic violence not recorded for various reasons (fear of punishment from the abuser, social stigma, no witnesses, etc etc).

Every time you see something like "60 percent of Americans believe (x)", you can't trust it because they didn't ask literally every single American. And likely they gathered that statistic to further their own point, so they can easily only ask about 100 people or make sure that everyone they gathered agreed with (x) to make their shiny statistic look good.

AggravatingAd1810 · 2023-01-03T21:48:14+00:00

No not really. I think statistics for both genders would be skewed because of non reporting.

Confident_Notice975 · 2023-01-04T20:16:00+00:00

Not really. There was a questionnaire out there that didnt even have an option for women abusing men, only a question for men abusing women. People dont even that the opportunity to ACKNOWLEDGE women do homicidal shit and beat the shit out of men all the time.

OriginalPostrSociety · 2023-01-04T00:06:07+00:00

As someone who is a huge proponent of men’s rights and believe men are unfairly treated in society I think think it’s pathetic for a man to claim he was physically abused by a woman. Like cmon man it’s a girl unless she’s a 6’3 Amazon you can easily overpower her at anytime.

ThatGIRLkimT · 2023-01-04T05:45:02+00:00

It depends on the study.

J_KILLA89 · 2023-01-04T19:54:32+00:00

AgeOfReasonEnds31120 · 2023-01-05T01:40:24+00:00

Yup, that's a product of the notion that all men should be strong, stoic, aggressive, ext.

Feminists think gender roles are misogynist; MRAs think gender roles are misandrist.

We are not the same.

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