Counter points?

Ok-Translator2294 · 2023-02-10T19:31:14+00:00

-Most doesn't mean we ignore the rest. Men commit the most suicides, does that mean we don't have to worry about women committing suicides?

The law should protect everyone, and deliver justice in each case, not just most.

-Men get shamed by women when they report abuse. Most women, including feminists, still believe that men cannot be abused or raped. The law in many countries believes the same too.

The law is also very lenient on female abusers, most get away with just a slap on the wrist, so men do not believe justice system would do them any good.

Dismal-Cabinet5321 · 2023-02-11T03:24:53+00:00

Men under reporting domestic abuse is in large part due directly to feminist-promoted laws like the duluth model, which assumes the man is always the guilty party in domestic disputes.

Why would a man risk reporting domestic abuse when the law literally says "arrest him even if HE is the victim"?

If this was happening to women, women would be calling it systematic violence and have a term for it akin to rape culture.

Digger_is_taken · 2023-02-10T19:48:42+00:00

There are no reliable numbers for violence in prisons in the US, because the National Intimate Partners and Sexually Violence Survey does not interview prisoners.

For numbers outside of prison, the NISVS is the flagship survey conducted by the CDC and it is the most reliable source. Look it up.

But you're debating backwards. Ask them to present evidence to support their claim.

Ozhubdownunder · 2023-02-10T20:56:01+00:00

Ask the feminist if a human assaults or kills another human, or a Muslim kills another Muslim, or the victim shares features or an identity with the perpetrator, does this change the nature or seriousness of the crime, or is the victim somehow responsible? Is it fair to minimise the issue? Should the group be blamed on mass?

parahacker · 2023-02-11T06:36:19+00:00

Press Release: CDC Says Men Are Half of All Victims of Sexual Violence.

Keystone sentence: Each year, 1.92 million men are made to sexually penetrate, and 1.93 million women are victims of rape (3). In 82.6% of the “made to penetrate” cases, the perpetrator was a female (4).

Unnecessary_Timeline · 2023-02-10T19:26:42+00:00

Most male sexual abuse is done by other men, especially in the prison system.

Not exactly true. You have to remember that there are literally more than 13x more male prisoners than female, so you’re taking the raw % of male perpetrators of sexual abuse in prison, of course men are going to outnumber women due to the sheer difference in population size. You’d need it broken down by rate per capita to truly compare the rate of male vs female perpetrators of sex abuse in prison, which I can’t find right now.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp

Also, the gender of the perpetrator in staff-on-inmate sexual abuse is surprisingly comparable percent. However I do not know the gender breakdown of the general population of prison staff.

Two-thirds (67%) of staff sexual misconduct perpetrators were female and one-third were male (33%)

https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/sisvraca1618.pdf

Men under-reporting domestic abuse is because of toxic masculinity.

That’s an opinion, so it's can't really be proven or disproven. Additionally, the concept of toxic masculinity is so broad, vague, and customizable to whatever the person wants it to be makes the claim even less falsifiable. If a claim isn't falsifiable, AKA can't be proven false, then it's an opinion and honestly not constructive in a debate like one about perpetration of prison sex abuse because we're not philosophizing about gender, there are actual facts and statistics relevant to the discussion.

GeheimerAccount · 2023-02-10T19:52:22+00:00

you dont have to disprove it, she has to prove it.

that being said, I dont think why either of those points would matter, assuming they are both true. in both cases sexual abuse still exists and we should try to lower it

IceCorrect · 2023-02-10T22:00:44+00:00

Someone posted article about women raping a child and how court dont judge her for it, beacuse women cant rape

volleyballbeach · 2023-02-10T22:59:25+00:00

Ask why they think those things, it can be an effective way to get people to realize for themselves they are wrong.

Plus:

Regardless of who does it to them, the abused still deserve resources and support and protection.
Thats probably part of the cause, but it’s certainly also because of a fear of not being believed and all of the other reasons women don’t always report. Relating it to women who don’t report may help in this particular argument.

UnconventionalXY · 2023-02-11T03:58:12+00:00

Pointing out statistics is not making an argument for something in the same way as saying "1 in 4 homeless are women" is simply stating a statistic (which may or may not actually be factual) and ignores the remaining 3 out of 4 homeless which are presumably men.

It's like women have an unspoken reason in their head why this is important, but if they don't share that reason, then the statement has no context or meaning and is just empty words.

Fightdevil · 2023-02-11T06:02:51+00:00

Men are not expressive verbally.

Qantourisc · 2023-02-11T07:56:20+00:00

If it's true or not doesn't matter, because it sound like a red herring, and in general this is just an attempt to slander/demonize all men based on a minority.

Specific_Detective41 · 2023-02-11T10:59:46+00:00

Point #2 is illogical & unfounded, how do you determine that? It's moreso because law enforcement doesn't take men's issues seriously

Angryasfk · 2023-02-11T15:34:21+00:00

Toxic masculinity is just a generalised feminist abuse these days. It is so vague it can be made to mean anything.

themolestedsliver · 2023-02-11T16:20:04+00:00

Most male sexual abuse is done by other men, especially in the prison system.

My go to response when hearing any varation of this bigoted "retort" is mentioning that a victim cannot choose who victimized them.

Just because they share a gender doesn't mean they deserve less sympathy nor does it mean men have an inherent problem in regards to rape.

Women can and certainly do rape men and femnists fought hard to change the legal definition of rape to bury those statistics and make it a women's issue instead or a humanity issue.

Men under-reporting domestic abuse is because of toxic masculinity.

Though some of the issues toxic masculinity umbrellas are valid issues femnism has a massive problem with just mindlessly labeling "toxic masculinity" as the cause of said problem and ending the conversation there.

Another thing to consider with this issue is that the "Duluth model" makes it so a man is always assumed to be the guilty party which creates a chilling effect on male victims from speaking out.

There is a powerful interview in the movie "the red pill" in which a victim of this law enforcement practice and domestic abuse was told by an officer.

"If she breaks a nail slapping you across the face you're the one who would be arrested". (Slightly paraphrased but conclusion still the same)

dependency_injector · 2023-02-12T06:55:04+00:00

Blaming the victim. Does being abused by another man feel better than being abused by a woman?
I would ask them what they mean by "toxic masculinity". Then I would enough questions to track where does this "toxic masculinity" come from (or enough questions to be called an incel). I think eventually the answer will be something like "other men are responsible for it" - which is victim blaming again.

Most "points" like that assume that men are a monolith, or a hive mind, and every man is responsible for the decisions other men make. Keeping it in mind is the key to debating with feminists.

Title	Counter points?
Author	Proof-Opening9174
Upvotes	12
Comments	22
Date	February 10, 2023 6:03 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10yyhba/counter_points/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/counter-points.1151216 https://theredarchive.com/post/1151216

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