I am so done

XavierMalory · 2020-01-01T05:17:35+00:00

How did you get started on the men’s rights reddit? What brought you here? Or rather, what suddenly made you so passionate about men’s rights?

Rose_Scythe · 2020-01-01T09:40:30+00:00

"The patriarchy also harms men".

Wow, so you mean men are oppressed too?

"No. Only women are oppressed".

..but, you just..

genkernels · 2020-01-01T07:00:30+00:00

They want me to accept that women have it harder because decades ago they couldn’t vote or be politicians. Well fucking great, they can now. So stop listening to this bullshit about patriarchy.

No kidding.

Homeless people are basically all men. Suicides are basically all men.

75% is not basically all, try not to let your anger cause you to stray from truth.

trash62 · 2020-01-01T06:19:10+00:00

Thank you so much for trying. You know, just that there actually are women out there aware of this stuff is extremely uplifting. Just so you know.

I don't think there ever really was a patriarchy.

Our species is biologically designed in such a way that, assuming we center our civilization around reproducing our bodies, males would logically be the disposable ones. (Luckily, we don't have to do this)

As a result, women would have been sheltered, kept away from danger and given boring, menial tasks. Very much baby machines. It would probably seem like an extremely oppressive society indeed to be kept in the kitchen!

All that "that's a man's job" sexist stuff of yesteryear could easily be explained as societal conditioning to get men to dispose of themselves. Ever notice to "man up" is to take the blame or accept some kind of hit? Men's work == doing stuff that could kill you. (Because if a woman dies, so do the children who need milk)

I think the "men's work" stuff was sort of the result of us believing our own bullshit, along with centuries of women being sheltered. When WWII came along, women could indeed do those same jobs, and it kind of woke us up, but instead of thinking it through, a "patriarchy" was invented. This allowed feminism to blame men, and acquire special priviliges for themselves.

There never was a patriarchy, if there were, it would have been women, and not men who were disposable. There was, however, a system in place that didn't particularly benefit either gender.

So glad you are aware we're all on the same team :)

problem_redditor · 2020-01-01T05:45:58+00:00

I've felt the same seething frustration when debating with feminists before. The sheer amount of falsehoods and fallacies they use in place of a legitimate argument is just staggering. If you provide them with evidence which clearly disproves their ideas of male privilege and women's oppression by men they'll either dismiss the evidence you provide with flimsy justifications as to why they should not hear it, or they'll reinterpret the evidence you provide as evidence in favour of their theory, no matter how counterintuitive, baroque and contrived their explanations and arguments have to become in order to justify their viewpoints.

Eventually, if and when you manage to factually and logically demonstrate that their viewpoint is false and they don't have any more rebuttals to make, they'll begin hurling ad hominem retorts which attack your character and your motivations for opposing feminism "You're a misogynist" (if you're male), "You're a pick-me" (if you're female), etc. You can't change their mind, because their heels are dug in to the point where they won't be able to consider any way of thinking about gender other than "Patriarchy Theory".

Most times the only thing you can hope to do is to convince the people reading the thread to the best of your ability that your position is right, and that the feminist position is wrong. Which means keeping a cool, clear head (something that I admittedly fail at sometimes, my approach is generally a firebrand one) and making logical, sourced arguments that are backed by evidence.

menstruatrix · 2020-01-01T06:50:31+00:00

They want me to accept that women have it harder because decades ago they couldn’t vote or be politicians.

Neither could men, generally speaking.

There was a relatively small fraction of society that met the various wickets for ownership of land, etc. that qualified them to vote or hold public office, and these were mostly men, but there were women who could vote (mainly widows who had inherited and retained the necessary status/conditions from their now-deceased husbands).

That the tiny fraction of men and women who could vote wasn't 50:50::men:women is about as relevant to the day-to-day struggles of most men and women as pointing out the gender demographics of multinational corporate officers today.

Oh, except men's right to vote is still conditional on meeting various wickets (e.g., "volunteering" for military service).

Lethn · 2020-01-01T05:42:09+00:00

Take a break, this probably a sign you're getting too frustrated and it's honestly I think by design on part of when you're having to deal with feminists. Sometimes it's a good idea to just go off for a few days and avoid the social media and then you come back refreshed and ready to deal with the rampant idiocy.

I will give a tip though, I think I may have found a way to deal with the fake moderates that try to spam 'feminism is about equality' at you and pretend the man hating is just a minor problem then proceed to preach feminism at you. For some reason asking them about whether or not they believe there is a patriarchy and actually understanding what their beliefs are helps you isolate them and makes other people realise that they're not moderates at all.

I'm going to try this the next time the morons attempt to brigade a thread. I can't wait to see their reactions to this next experiment of mine and make their narrative crumble. The reason being any sane person knows that patriarchy is a load of conspiratorial nonsense invented by feminists, if these are 'moderates' and you can get them to admit they believe in patriarchy the mask slips.

SaffronSamber · 2020-01-01T05:08:23+00:00

Amen (no pun intended)

NotherThrowaway284 · 2020-01-01T05:54:15+00:00

While I fully understand your frustration, u/Void_Avoided, I also agree with u/Lethn that you'd likely benefit from a break especially from those feminists who've upset you the most. I am no friend to modern feminism, but even so I do not call the majority of women in it evil, stupid, or malevolent. They're a bit brainwashed and have a lot of in-group gender bias, yes, but that's mostly it.

Few people are ever really as bad as their worst traits suggest, and focusing on such traits often prevents you from seeing the actual person.

2020-01-01T08:02:16+00:00

Have you tried joining intactivist groups, like Friends of Bloodstained Men on Facebook? There's lots of reasonable women there.

Oncefa2 · 2020-01-01T12:47:08+00:00

I’m the one trying to explain ideology too progressive for them to comprehend when they’re the ones stuck in the past.

I always find this funny. People (liberals) talk about being "woke" nowadays and I'm just like, I'm the one who's woke. You have your eyes closed in comparison lol.

Despite it's association with conservatives, I think men's rights is a very progressive, "revolutionary" idea. Liberals who don't get it are basically just tools of the proletariat swimming around in their own closed minded propaganda.

zeerust2000 · 2020-01-01T08:45:08+00:00

I've been there. You can't win, because they will only talk to you on their own terms. They are happy to tell you what they think, but they won't want to actually talk about it with you. If they don't control the conversation, they will just quit, usually with a final bitchy insult thrown at you on the way out. Language is their weapon, and they are good at it, and as long as they set the premises on which a conversation is based, they will always retain control of that conversation. That's why they have special made-up words to shut men up when they don't want to hear what you are saying. Mansplaining, whataboutism, derailing...etc. The best approach is to say less, don't get emotional (because they feed off negative emotions), and ask them questions. Short, to the point, questions. They probably won't give you a satisfactory answer because then it is you who is controlling the dialogue, and they hate that. It's been said before, but it's best not to give them the satisfaction of playing their stupid games.

iainmf · 2020-01-01T09:55:02+00:00

What I do when interacting with ideologues is practice my rhetoric and try to be as convincing as possible and as concise as possible. I'm looking for a few small things that will break through to people. So rather than getting frustrated, it's like a game or a challenge that makes me better.

Even if I can't convince them, if there are other watching them I may convince them. In fact, I have had a stranger message me on facebook to thank me for being rational and polite and giving them something to think about.

MEN OBVIOUSLY HAVE IT WAY FUCKING HARDER THAN WOMEN. IT’S SO OBVIOUS. OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES AND USE YOUR BRAIN, DO SOME CRITICAL THINKING.

How did you reach this conclusion?

You are probably going to have to walk people through all of the steps you took and not just jump to the end.

I mean, just saying bad things happen to men, isn't enough to make the claim that things are worse for men. You have to judge a wide range of things and decide how to weigh them and compare them to the experiences of women.

I don't think it is possible to make the determination that one sex has it worse than the other in a general sense. Sure, it's possible if you narrow down to specific issues, like life expectancy, but a general claim is so hard to prove empirically and is subject to a ton of bias.

Canttakethewhyfromme · 2020-01-01T14:54:02+00:00

Thank you for fighting for fairness and equality. You were probably banned from that other sub for posting, or even commenting, in subs like this one.

genkernels · 2020-01-01T22:16:11+00:00

I got banned from a feminist sub just there and idk why.

You and everyone else, haha.

Flyerfan04 · 2020-01-01T07:07:23+00:00

Some people are just impossible to crack. And unfortunately these people are the hardest to crack. I appreciate your duties ma’am and I salute to you!

johnouden · 2020-01-01T07:18:10+00:00

If I had coins I'd give this an award. Don't let it get to you. Sometimes you just have to draw a line and ignore them.

pwinne · 2020-01-01T11:47:09+00:00

Here have some gold and thanks for caring about the men!

JestyerAverageJoe · 2020-01-01T15:20:35+00:00

Thank you for caring. Thank you for seeing the world as it really is. Thank you for having the courage to speak up. Thank you for getting angry when they try to silence you.

Take a break. Then give em fucking hell.

PS, have you ever seen the film named The Red Pill? If not, you should.

contraterrene · 2020-01-02T00:26:14+00:00

What the rest said, thanks for your thinking and compassion.

1LegendaryWombat · 2020-01-02T05:24:47+00:00

Well, hope you had a good vent, cause you spitting some fire there.

Suppose this makes you a..what do they call it, a 'handmaiden of the patriarchy'? Yeah it is bullshit. Not much can be done about it though, people have real trouble seeing through propaganda when its parroted so much and is so pervasive.

I got banned from a feminist sub just there and idk why.

Whatever reason they could think of, but in reality, because they need to make sure nobody ever questions them. Partly for mens rights stuff, but they would ban you even just for questioning feminism god.

Bokulence · 2020-01-01T12:39:23+00:00

Stop debating with insane people, they will bring you down to their level and dominate you. I am not sure what brings you here, but sadly nobody can do now for men. We live in time when women(you) have more power and control over everything.

As time goes by, it will get more worst. More draconian laws will be changed that will be against men. Today boys will suffer more in future than woman in previous decades.

It's fucked up future and today generation have to find a way to fight feminism and whatever is next.

Damncrypto · 2020-01-01T09:02:02+00:00

I’ll marry the f@&$ out of you lol

Female_Separatist · 2020-01-01T13:12:22+00:00

You aren't female lmao you don't get to speak for us

Title	I am so done
Author	Void_Avoided
Upvotes	130
Comments	67
Date	January 1, 2020 5:07 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/eiebl9/i_am_so_done/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-am-so-done.861893 https://theredarchive.com/post/861893

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