i don't understand

jesterace · 2014-04-21T15:42:00+00:00

A hypothetical scenario to explain the lack of reproductive rights: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/7x78v/what_do_modern_men_want_in_women/c07omtc

alright, and i know custody and alimony is swayed a lot but hold on - like gender roles right?? don't you think the idea that women are thought of as "babymaker housewives" is part of why mothers are usually granted custody? and that men are thought of as "the strong breadwinners who don't have time for that shit" and are expected to take care of everything, work, and masculine stereotypes is why they usually are not granted custody and have to pay child support??? and women are too weak and incapable to make enough money so the big strong men who don't have any emotions blahbalhabalhah pay child support? that's kind of what the idea of a patriarchy is, you know? it affects everyone and feminists are aware of this, we aren't usually evil cunts

Like many of our issues, this is an issue of striking a balance between rights and responsibilities. If you examine men's rights issues with this in mind, it should be abundantly clear as to why we oppose feminism.

In the past, fathers had the right to default primary custody because they were financially/legally/etc responsible for their family. Feminists pushed to give mothers the right to primary custody through a piece of legislation called 'The Tender Years Doctrine', but left fathers to deal with the financial burden. This has not changed and we have no reason to believe it will despite their assurances of "working on it." In fact, there is evidence that they oppose shared parenting.

The Patriarchy™ is about as real as the Illuminati. Feminists love using it as a smoke screen to hide the fact that rights without responsibility is in fact privilege. Feminism claims to be about breaking down gender roles, yet we have numerous examples of them wanting to keep them in place for men, and has even evolved into telling women what they should and shouldn't be doing. Smash the patriarchy? Feminism IS the patriarchy. Feminism is a dog chasing it's own tail. It is the disease AND the cure. The only way to get rid of patriarchy(feminism) is more feminism(patriarchy)? It sounds like complete nonsense, because that's what patriarchy theory is. Until you start focusing on what feminism is actually doing, instead of what it claims to be doing, you will not understand.

You did not ask for it, but this is my advice to you: Assume nothing and question everything. Assuming what others tell you to be true, in this case feminist revisionist history, is lazy thinking. Challenge your beliefs. Try to find evidence to support the opposite of what you believe. What you find may be uncomfortable. You have taken the first step by asking questions but i think you would be doing yourself a disservice if you did not investigate for yourself.

DXXL13 · 2014-04-21T06:38:47+00:00

I'll briefly summarize the male reproductive rights. Currently, a pregnant woman's options include abortion, parenthood, or adoption. Those fighting for gender equality say men should be afforded the option to forfeit parental rights and obligations, too.

aerxo17 · 2014-04-21T07:28:24+00:00

my brain is honestly a little fried bc 420

Did she really just say that?

ThePigmanAgain · 2014-04-21T09:36:26+00:00

"i don't understand"

What don't you understand? How to capitalize and punctuate?

xProperlyBakedx · 2014-04-21T17:18:10+00:00

Like this like is like the like hardest like thing like Ive ever like tried to like read like its so like annoying to like have to like read this like in a Valley girl voice like seriously like do you like use like voice to text like because this sounds like you like are trying to like type like how you like talk and its like really like hard to like understand.

2014-04-22T01:36:50+00:00

I don't know why I'm going to waste time responding to your desire for a reasonable debate since this is yet another in a long line of posts that begin with "Why is there hate towards Feminism blah blah blah, Feminism is about equality, yadda yadda yadda" then the OP vanishing off the face of the earth.

But I'll address only two of your points beginning with:

"and then education, like what specifically? i know boys are lower in english than girls, but girls are lower in math and science. there's incentive to raise gender scores on both sides: often in english classes we are introduced to male-centered novels and books about more "boy-ish" things (gender roles, i know) to entice male interest in literature, so that they can connect with the characters more. the issue with this, however, is that it probably doesn't serve its purpose since it doesn't actually help or tutor boys; and if male-protag novels are supposed to interest boys, wouldn't that logic say it would disinterest girls?? making girl scores worse?? idk man."

It appears you don't have a single grasp of the root where the grievance lies within this arena.

Here's the basic gist of it: Back in the early 90s, feminist special interest groups surveyed students of various backgrounds in School and proclaimed there was a crisis in education for girl students. They claimed girls were falling behind boys in the majority of subjects so they lobbied government and the boards of education to introduce special programs and tailor the education system for the way girls learn in order to address this problem.

The thing was, these feminist groups failed to acknowledge the fact that BOTH genders, BOYS AND GIRLS, were struggling at equal levels. Yet, they and their co-horts in government and the education system went ahead and implemented these changes anyway.

Fast forward to now. We have girls surging with breakneck speed ahead of boys, particularly in literacy (of which you mention), while the boys are barely limping along with most dropping out of school in frustration.

Any attempts to address this mistake are met with resistance and cries of sexism. "If you focus attention on boys, the girls will pay the consequences". Even when you get a few to agree that boys are struggling, they'll point out that only extends to boys of different ethnic backgrounds while the white boys are moving along fine and dandy. They've got nothing to worry about.

Add to this being told that girls are better than boys, drilled into their heads by ignorant, bigoted staff, and you've got the very issue that's being fought.

As to your assertion that books with male protagonists won't tutor boys or help, well what else can be done? You ever read stories nowadays, watch any current movies with strong female leads? You can bet that those strong female leads are allowed to say disgusting things about the male supporting cast, beat them or verbally abuse them when not merited, and even make them incompetent one-dimensional buffoons.

If I were an educator and saw this kind of material being encouraged, I'd put my foot down and give them more healthier stories to digest. And before you go accusing me of having a problem with strong female leads, I don't. I would still offer them stories like that, but ones where the men are not given short shrift as a trade off and every gender is presented even-handily. Such as Nausicaa, The Hunger Games Trilogy, The Neverending Story, Momo, etc. This is a particularly personal thing of mine seeing as I'm a writer as well and loathe the general laziness and ineptness of so-called artists out there propping up their female characters upon the backs of the male characters while getting away with having their creations make unfounded, unwarranted asides against the male population that would have society breaking out their pitchforks and calling for their heads if it were the female population as their target.

There. Now on to your next one:

"i am cis, white, well-off, perhaps not thin but not overweight, and physically able, and i see how people with these traits have affected those who are trans, pocs, poor, fat, and disabled, and i understand that when people are saying "fuck cis people" and how much they hate white people that like"

Bullshit. Pure bullshit. Nobody has the right to cast aspirations on an ENTIRE gender because a select few have turned out to be assholes.

So you think every cis, white, well-off, perhaps not thin but not overweight able-bodied man on the face of this earth has oppressed and tormented these minorities you speak of? Does that include cis, white, well-off, perhaps not thin but not overweight able-bodied babies? Cis, white, well-off, perhaps not thin but not overweight able-bodied boys? Cis, white, well-off, perhaps not thin but not overweight senior citizens?

Not every one who fits your description of an oppressor is an oppressor. That's just Social Justice Warrior claptrap. You need to look at who also occupies the bottom of the heap.

You're looking at this from a "Sexism = power" definition, which posits that the ones at the top (Men) automatically benefit from the oppression of those at the bottom (Women) and that there can be no sexism against Men since they're the ones in power.

That may be fine in your little activist world. But not in the real world, where sexism benefits NO ONE and things cannot be explained away with absolutes.

That's all I'm going to address. And frankly, I'm not counting on you to return here because these posts always end up languishing and responses not forthcoming long after their expiry date.

Prove me wrong though. I'm waiting.

oneiorosgrip · 2014-04-21T21:42:13+00:00

okay, so i've tried to figure this out and search for valid information, but mostly i've found things that just spew a lot of hate towards feminism or say that men have more issues than women, and that's not really helpful.

This outs you as a fake and a troll. The information structure you're citing - mostly "things that just spew a lot of hate toward feminism" (absent of valid information) does not exist. There is criticism of feminism. You're not one of those idiot trolls who thinks posting a rant that starts with the presumption that feminism should be exempt from criticism is going to change discussion here, are you? Because that would be a total waste of your time, and of the time spent by anyone who chooses to reply to you.

Pecanpig · 2014-04-21T22:47:22+00:00

If you edit your post so as to make it legible then I'll read it and respond to it, until then.

Seriously though it's like a 9 year old girl wrote this on a smartphone with her thumb up her ass.

HolySchmoly · 2014-04-21T10:44:51+00:00

Where did you do your degree?

aerxo17 · 2014-04-21T07:27:03+00:00

these are all the opinions and stances i've learned from feminism that already explain what you are saying

I've never heard feminists talking about "male disposability." like, regardless what the cause of a problem that affects men and women is, men never matter. How gender roles affect child support is a goodn example: you yourself mention that the cause is gender roles, but since the primary victims are men, nobody cares, and many oppose any change.

guywithaccount · 2014-04-21T14:21:09+00:00

ugh, stoners

aerxo17 · 2014-04-21T07:23:30+00:00

i expected more replies i guess but like is it because no one is here or because no one wants to answer me because you get like a lot of these or have done this before or

2014-04-21T14:28:27+00:00

To the original person who posted, this is the answer to all your questions:

Chivalry is shit.

Title	i don't understand
Author	aerxo17
Upvotes	0
Comments	48
Date	April 21, 2014 5:57 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/23kkvk/i-dont-understand/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-dont-understand.1616440 https://theredarchive.com/post/1616440

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