Is there any moral difference between MRAs and feminists?

NotARussianBot1984 · 2024-05-20T20:42:15+00:00

Name one thing feminism has done for men?

Many MRAs believe in women's rights like voting, able to have a bank account, no discrimination when applying to jobs, etc.

In my country in Canada, they made it legal to discriminate against men now. My local university won't hire me, they state tehy don't allow men to apply to jobs. It's insane.

MannerNo7000 · 2024-05-20T21:03:51+00:00

So many trolls and brigades.

Can’t men have ONE DAMN SUBREDDIT.

Spins13 · 2024-05-20T20:00:45+00:00

This is incorrect. Most MRAs I have seen, especially here, are for Human Rights and do not seek for favouritism as you say, only fair treatment and recognition by a society which takes men for granted

SuspiciousPears · 2024-05-20T20:41:57+00:00

MRA didn't need to exist if feminism wasn't one-sided. But of course, it is. While feminists talk about equality, they only care about one side while actively demonizing the other, so MRA was made to balance the scales and talk about men's issues, which is precisely what feminists told men they ought to do. Feminists saw the introduction of men's issues into the movement in two ways, 1. "Well it's the patriarchy anyway, so let us handle it and maybe things will magically be better for men" (they won't, and feminism actively denies any male plight and blames men for the problems men face) and 2. "Stop invading our movement and go make your own". But lo, men have made their own and are continually berated by feminists for it.

MRA does not believe, like feminists, that the opposite sex is the cause of all problems. MRA does believe in real equality, unlike the power grab of third wave feminism. MRA does not actively campaign against the rights of women like feminists does to men (though one may mistake pointing out feminists bad logic as against women's rights, but to do so, you'd have to believe in their fantasies). They are not the same. Both sides have bad actors, sure, but the overarching narrative of feminism (the one loudly shouted at universities and in political parties) is blatantly misandric, while the overarching narrative of MRA is equality (the broader MRA narrative is NOT far right).

If you want to find the moral contradictions, look no further than intersectional feminism. Every argument intersectional feminists make about how blacks are oppressed by whites are exact parallels to how men are oppressed. Longer prison sentences for the same crime, more likely to be victims of crimes and police brutality, and so on. There is much discussion on this sub on these topics. If you bring up these striking statistics, intersectional feminists will justify it with the most hate-filled garbage, but it's the mainstream narrative regardless.

untamed-italian · 2024-05-20T20:21:35+00:00

Both feminists and MRAs seem to claim a belief in equality as between the sexes.

Sure

At the same time, both groups prioritize issues that adversely impact their respective genders.

Sure

This gender based prioritization of issues is a course of conduct that reflects a belief that one gender is more important than the other.

No, this is erroneous. What it actually reflects is the egocentric nature of the human perspective's subjectivity. We prioritize what we can understand, and we are quicker to understand problems and experiences we can relate to or have already been through.

It is entirely possible that this prioritization is saying absolutely nothing about the relative importance of one sex compared to the other, so there is no reason to presume that is a necessary prerequisite for the prioritization.

Both movements look like thinly veiled in-group favoritism which belies the representation that there exists a true belief in equality as between the sexes.

In the context of politics as institutionalized conflict between opposed interest groups, this is the only way the belief in equality between the sexes can manifest.

Any organization claiming to support men's rights has to advocate for those rights within the context of interest groups all competing for political attention and influence. Any organization which fails to establish itself as worthy of people's effort will not last long enough to acheive any change.

Imho the moral difference between the two does not come from the method or means of their organizing. It comes from the content, from the beliefs and principles advocated by each movement.

MRAs are advocating for nothing more than the understanding that men are not nearly as privileged as they are portrayed, that men have serious grievances with how society isn structured, and that men need thier rights enforced and respected.

Feminists are advocating for a revision of world history and the reframing of sociology exclusively in terms of men being oppressors and women being oppressed. This Patriarchy Theory essentially redefines men as invariable oppressors and women as invariably oppressed, which mass manufactures prejudicial fear and hatred of men.

These are not equivalent contents for equivalent liberation movements. One movement is focused on specific material goals for a specific group, the other is focused on evangalizing its extremely ideologically driven views on human history and social group organization.

ElisaSKy · 2024-05-20T20:11:51+00:00

I mean, take Mark P. Koss, the infamous MRA who worked as a consultant to the CDC and had a major role in shaping the definition of rape they used in studies, explaining that women who were "made to envelop" were not "raped", only people (most of them men BTW) who were "enveloped by force" were "raped", and now we have studies saying that 99% of rapists are women published by the government and policies based on stopping women from raping men but not caring about all the male teachers who rape, wait, my bad, "make their underage students envelop them", and know that a gigolo, that is a man who has sex with a consenting women in exchange for pay, will get three times the jail sentence of a male teacher exploiting his underage female students...

Do you see what I just did there? Does this sound anything like the world you live in? I flipped the genders on Mary P. Koss, on "made to penetrate" and rape sentences, and suddenly all of you are wondering what the hell I've been smoking. The fact that when I genderswap some things MRAs say, and it's clearly something no feminist has ever said, should tell you a lot about how we're not the same.

CrowMagpie · 2024-05-20T20:48:40+00:00

Both feminists and MRAs seem to claim a belief in equality as between the sexes.

I don't actually see MRAs saying they're about equality all that often. I see them saying 'feminists claim to be about equality, but their actions prove otherwise', though.

At the same time, both groups prioritize issues that adversely impact their respective genders.

Not so much their respective genders, as the gender each are focused on. (Feminists can be male, MRAs can be female.)

I have no problem with this, whether it's MRAs or feminists doing it. What I have a problem with is when feminists decide that even talking about men's problems is an assault on women's advocacy, and make progress impossible, and spread a lot of hypocrisy around it.

This gender based prioritization of issues is a course of conduct that reflects a belief that one gender is more important than the other. Both movements look like thinly veiled in-group favoritism which belies the representation that there exists a true belief in equality as between the sexes.

No, it shows that there a lot of problems for whichever gender you're focusing on. In the case of MRAs, there's an idea that all of society keeps advocating for women's rights at the expense of men's, and blaming men for all the problems, and if we don't focus on our rights nobody else will.

63daddy · 2024-05-20T21:35:44+00:00

There’s a huge difference:

Feminists have lobbied for and won many laws that are not gender equal but rather advantage women and disadvantage men.

The MRM at least so far has only advocated equality for men, not advantages.

That’s a huge difference.

KochiraJin · 2024-05-21T01:05:36+00:00

MRAs and Feminists don't share views on equality. MRAs tend to favor equality under the law whereas Feminism generally uses it as a front for special treatment.

EpicHajsownik · 2024-05-20T21:28:41+00:00

Equality vs Female supremacy

notice how there are no trans excluded mra's. Thats because we dont want additional rights, so were not threatened by women changing their genders into male

Tiny_Professional358 · 2024-05-21T02:46:22+00:00

MRA’s can listen to opposing viewpoints for starters.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2024-05-21T03:03:10+00:00

I think MRAs are more genuinely in favor of equality and more morally consistent.

I've seen plenty of feminists (a majority, I'd say) who are in favor of abortion but are against legal paternal surrender. However, I've never seen an MRA who was in favor of legal paternal surrender but against abortion.

I feel like MRAs have seen how hypocritical feminists have been about equality when abusing their massive power and make a conscious endeavor to avoid mirroring that hypocrisy.

g1455ofwater · 2024-05-21T07:05:02+00:00

Both the plaintiff and the defendant claim to be right in a court case do you think they are the same morally because they each make the claim they are right? You are just the latest troll posting false equivalency.

mrkpxx · 2024-05-21T11:30:06+00:00

It's not about equality, but about equal rights. Men and women are different and have different interests and needs.

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-05-21T19:19:04+00:00

There's a power difference. Might makes right.

Peptocoptr · 2024-05-21T20:09:21+00:00

I don't want equality. Most people who use that word don't understand what it means. What I want is justice. Which does mean equality under the law, among other things associated with equality, but ultimately goes far beyond that with none of the pitfalls

Far-Lunch1675 · 2024-05-22T02:36:24+00:00

Oppressors vs oppressed. Being oppressed doesn’t necessarily make you morally correct but it does give you cause to complain about it. And clearly it is men who are oppressed. A usual sign of oppression is the prohibition from being able to be taken seriously when pointing out oppression.

Head-Engineering-847 · 2024-05-28T00:51:00+00:00

This is why I created the group r/5thWaveFeminism, to actually have open discussions about gender equality without discrimination

Codename-18 · 2024-05-21T06:05:14+00:00

Hey we finally got a bigot! Welcome OP.

MRA is not that kind of mental indoctrination that makes people in a society prioritise their ideology over their institutional rule (psychologists, lawyers, judges, teachers etc) nice try though

BananaB0yy · 2024-05-20T20:35:48+00:00

What really baffles me, is that MRAs seem to have completly adopted the feminist belief that there is no inherent difference between the sexes. See the threads about how bad it is for female teachers to sleep with almost adult students, where they unironically argue with gebder swap examples, as if women and men are the same. They became just as crazy as them, it seems.

Interesting_Figure_ · 2024-05-21T00:26:37+00:00

They’re the same thing under different names. They have the same meaning except they work for different sexes because men know about men’s problems and women know about women’s problems. There should definitely be a middle ground where we can all talk about it though without argument

Title	Is there any moral difference between MRAs and feminists?
Author	bifewova234
Upvotes	0
Comments	169
Date	May 20, 2024 7:52 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1cwon8h/is_there_any_moral_difference_between_mras_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-there-any-moral-difference-between-mras-and.1519053 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519053

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