Liberal and apolitical MRA's?

PowerWisdomCourage · 2013-04-18T14:06:53+00:00

No, we should not entrench ourselves in a party. Political parties encompass more than just a single cause. The fastest way to completely destroy this movement would be to side with a party.

ClaudeKenni · 2013-04-18T13:36:36+00:00

I think the primary reason that there are left wing, or liberal MRAs (and I would say a large proportion of them), and that they can be anti-feminist is simply because the feminism that has infiltrated left wing politics is different to the "equality for everyone" face that so many like to put on feminism. I made this point the other day on some discussion about affirmative action, but for someone interested in mens rights, and setting aside political opinion for a moment, introducing affirmative action which helps men who are disadvantaged due to their gender in the same way that it helps women, is as much of a 'result' as removing the advantages of affirmative action for women where they are not needed. It might not be what people agree with politically, but when we get to the point that these questions are purely political, instead of having to challenge the disadvantages of being male first, we will have made huge progress in terms of mens rights.

I'll make a small political point before going on to something else, that while mens issues are a part of someones political interest, its not neccessarily in someones best interest to vote for a right wing party just because a party further to the left supports feminist values, as there are bigger matters (such as economic matters), which in the grand scheme of things are more important. This is one of the reasons I'd never vote for a right wing party (and another note, the idea of what is left and right wing in america seems very skewed from a european perspective, with even more leftist Obama seeming very right wing by our standards).

Back to the main question, what I usually bring it down to on gender issues is that a right wing approach is a laissez faire approach, a left wing approach is equality of outcome, and a centrist approach is equality of opportunity. You can take any of these approaches and use it as a MRA, as well as being critical of the parts of feminism which are hypocritically saying one thing, and doing the complete opposite. My personal opinion is that a right wing approach simply can't work alone, as while some of the issues men face are legal ones, too many are social and cultural, which I don't think that right wing politics has the ability to challenge.

Finally, I think keeping the MRM apolitical (by which I mean broadly keeping any particular political philosophy out of the movement) means that we can be more inclusive than feminism. Trying to simply set us up as anti-feminist wont work, as we will just become as bad as feminism is, but by subverting feminism by giving people the red pill, showing we are interested in actual equality across the political and social spectrums (where feminism is often seen as just for white, middle class women), and bringing people away from the damaging doctrine that feminism often perpetuates, means I feel our goals will be reached far more rapidly than they may otherwise be.

Neurotikitty · 2013-04-18T14:05:11+00:00

I don't see any reason why the MRM must be politicized. I identify with the MRM because I'm a firm egalitarian. I will fight for the rights of fellow women when they are being infringed, but the modern feminist movement seems to have absolutely no fucking idea what it's doing, and I want no part of it. I'm more interested in exposing men's issues that have been ignored for the past few decades (as women's issues took the spotlight). However, I remain a very liberal person. I'm a civil libertarian (I believe that the government should stay far out of people's personal lives) but I believe that a strong and efficient state can exist to provide services to the people. That's why I align with the political left more often than not.

Just because feminism has tried to hijack a large part of the left doesn't mean everyone on the political left wants to be part of that agenda. I would feel highly alienated by a capitalist Libertarian or Republican MRM. Even though we can share a common interest in the welfare of men, I can't get on board with their other philosophies. So I say keep the movement as apolitical as possible.

Edit: MRM instead of MRA (got my singular and plurals mixed up)

jolly_mcfats · 2013-04-18T15:25:10+00:00

gynocentrism is the real issue, and traditionalism and feminism are two flavors of gynocentrism.

There is no political party for MHRM issues. Liberal MRAs have other issues that they care about, and vote where they feel they have a chance to actually effect some kind of change that they care about. We're in a hyper-partisan era where we tend to think that anyone who doesn't hold the same views or values is mentally defiicient, and this is why the MRM should be apolotiical. To ally ourselves with a party is to disaffect a large portion of the MRM who care deeply about mens issues in order to get nothing from a party that won't give a shit about mens issues.

antifeminista · 2013-04-18T13:21:07+00:00

Whichever way you do vote you get gynocentrism and chivalry, the only difference is which flavour, the old conservative flavour or the new one.

literallyschmiteraly · 2013-04-18T13:45:46+00:00

Some of us are old enough to remember when feminism hadn't strangled liberalism. My father was a totally butch liberal. I realise we can never go back but that's the image I'm holding in my head.

2013-04-18T14:45:58+00:00

Is this you Jay/thingsarebad etc?

sibqm_lmvm · 2013-04-18T15:16:27+00:00

The MRM is not inherently liberal, but it certainly isn't conservative. If it was, then feminists would be right when they accuse us of wanting things as they were in the 50s.

Most of us are pro-choice. Most of us are for gay marriage (some of us are gay or bisexual). We want to make laws that will protect people accused of serious crimes. Those are "liberal" concepts. We are also conservative about a few things.

Being anti-feminist will not make you anti-liberals by default. I am left-leaning because time and time again I have seen republicans show their complete and total ignorance on too many subjects that I care about (you think there's just one guy who thought the body could just shut a rape pregnancy down? There are way more just like him, and they actually managed to get voted into offices). As a bisexual woman, joining conservative movements means creating more problems for me, personally. But most republicans are also pretty traditional, so I wouldn't want to be a part of something that would go back to shitty gender roles and force men back into the ways that we are trying to move past.

rightsbot · 2013-04-18T13:10:17+00:00

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DavidByron · 2013-04-18T15:23:04+00:00

Anti-feminists are liberal. It is a liberal criticism of a conservative movement. Feminism is a hate movement which means it is hyper-conservative / tribalist.

printyra · 2013-08-11T06:53:03+00:00

Yes they should politicize.

You cannot be a leftist and a MRA. It's a joke. Bernard Chapin is right!

When you vote Democrat (or any left-wing party) you are voting for politicians who fully support the progressive feminist movement. Why do you think feminists vote Democrat? (DUH!)

Remember the whole BS "war on women?" That was Democrats pushing the progressive feminist agenda.

These MRAs who support left-wing politics are either ignorant or stupid.

I guess in 2016 the leftist MRAs and the feminists can form Meetup groups for Hillary Clinton 2016!

Title	Liberal and apolitical MRA's?
Author	antifeminista
Upvotes	0
Comments	105
Date	April 18, 2013 1:08 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1clq1y/liberal-and-apolitical-mras/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/liberal-and-apolitical-mras.1610847 https://theredarchive.com/post/1610847

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