Well that's what I figured about this subreddit, thanks for putting it crystal clear like that (with comment that has 15 upvotes and no downvotes!)
You guys don't really have any complaints about sexism against men, you're just complaining about things in order to trivialize the complaints that women's advocates make about sexism against women.
Different groups of people may have different sensitivities based on how they've been historically treated and based on current cultural attitudes and stereotypes.
not getting to complain about jokes targeted at you while making the exact same jokes about others.
It's not the exact same joke though. And you even realize that. Because no one here seems to be offended by the Hallmark card. If you don't have a complaint to make then don't complain. And if an advocate for women were to complain about something where the gender roles were reversed, listen to why that complaint was made, and maybe you'll understand (as you intuitively seem to), that it's not the same.
The difference is this: When women want to make jokes that denigrate and demean men, they don't call them "sex toys." Jokes that denigrate men are more along the lines of how easily men are replaced with say, a vibrator.
On the other hand: When men want to denigrate women, they do call women "sex toys". Far too many men think of women in that way.
Are you understanding the difference?
This is a similar situation to when Obama was portrayed as a monkey, and it was obviously racist -- and then a bunch of ignorant people chimed in and said "Wait, Bush was also compared to a monkey, how is that not racist?!"
Well, because history. Because comparing African-Americans to monkeys was a common way to denigrate them. And that's what made it racist to do to our first African-American President.
Bush was compared to a monkey because, frankly, he looked like one. It has nothing to do with race.
... This was my analogy to explain that comparing Bush to a monkey was not racist, but comparing Obama to a monkey was racist, because of the history of such comparisons being used to denigrate African-Americans.
You didn't respond to the substance of my point.
That is, by definition, the same joke - only with the genders reversed.
No... only if you interpret it absence of any context, social, historical, etc... and that's not possible.
Most men would consider being called a "sex toy" a compliment. Men attach a lot value to being seen as good in bed.
Women, in contrast, have fought to be considered worth something other than sex. And so that's why this joke, if the target was women, would be denigrating to women, whereas when it targets men it's just a joke.
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[–]Amunium 17 points18 points19 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]bosh-head [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Well that's what I figured about this subreddit, thanks for putting it crystal clear like that (with comment that has 15 upvotes and no downvotes!)
You guys don't really have any complaints about sexism against men, you're just complaining about things in order to trivialize the complaints that women's advocates make about sexism against women.
Different groups of people may have different sensitivities based on how they've been historically treated and based on current cultural attitudes and stereotypes.
[–]Amunium 6 points7 points8 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+]bosh-head [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
It's not the exact same joke though. And you even realize that. Because no one here seems to be offended by the Hallmark card. If you don't have a complaint to make then don't complain. And if an advocate for women were to complain about something where the gender roles were reversed, listen to why that complaint was made, and maybe you'll understand (as you intuitively seem to), that it's not the same.
The difference is this: When women want to make jokes that denigrate and demean men, they don't call them "sex toys." Jokes that denigrate men are more along the lines of how easily men are replaced with say, a vibrator.
On the other hand: When men want to denigrate women, they do call women "sex toys". Far too many men think of women in that way.
Are you understanding the difference?
This is a similar situation to when Obama was portrayed as a monkey, and it was obviously racist -- and then a bunch of ignorant people chimed in and said "Wait, Bush was also compared to a monkey, how is that not racist?!"
Well, because history. Because comparing African-Americans to monkeys was a common way to denigrate them. And that's what made it racist to do to our first African-American President.
[–]Amunium 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]bosh-head [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
... This was my analogy to explain that comparing Bush to a monkey was not racist, but comparing Obama to a monkey was racist, because of the history of such comparisons being used to denigrate African-Americans.
You didn't respond to the substance of my point.
No... only if you interpret it absence of any context, social, historical, etc... and that's not possible.
Most men would consider being called a "sex toy" a compliment. Men attach a lot value to being seen as good in bed.
Women, in contrast, have fought to be considered worth something other than sex. And so that's why this joke, if the target was women, would be denigrating to women, whereas when it targets men it's just a joke.
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