Something I realized recently that really aggravates me

dalsgaard · 2012-11-27T18:34:15+00:00

Absolutely. I've also had an interest in women's clothing and fashion for a short while. What is wrong with wanting to feel different and pretty?

I used to let a lot of it out, by creating and playing a female avatar in Second Life. And even then, I would hide my true identity like the fucking plague, and I basically told no one that my avatar was female. And when they found out, shit: there were so many comments and BS.

I feel bad for transgendered MTF people. They must go through so much shit.

LostInTransIation · 2012-11-27T17:41:07+00:00

I totally agree, men should be able to wear whatever clothing they want, and there shouldn't be shaming involved at all. I'm sorry to hear you have to hide that from people close to you.

RomeFlower · 2012-11-27T18:53:14+00:00

Take this situation into the work place...just walk down the street and look at the men and women going to work in offices men HAVE NO CHOICE but to wear a suite and trousers, the only change they are permitted to make is slight variation in colour of the suite,shirt or tie.

The women can literally wear anything including suit and trousers, in bright colours.they don't have to wear a tie,which is uncomfortable in the summer and women can also wear a skirt in the summer men must continue to wear trousers.

xLadyVirgil · 2012-11-27T20:03:20+00:00

I am, in fact, a female crossdresser. I do 'realistic' drag, complete with costume beard, dress pants, vest, dress shirt, tie, fedora, dress shoes 2 sizes too large, and make-up (subtle- eyebrow filling mostly). I will go about my day acting like I think a man acts, walking like I think a man walks, thinking like I think a man thinks, talking like I think a man talks. Why? I'm not really sure. I'm cisgendered. But I enjoy putting myself into a different role, and I'll admit, I have a teensy bit of penis envy.

Does anyone judge me for it? Not really, although I have heard that it's weird, and undesirable in a romantic partner. So there is a little bit of judgment surrounding it. However, I agree men get the worst of it. Feminist theory would say that that's because society thinks of females as less valuable, thusly it's degrading to want to be feminine.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the latter, but it is worth some consideration. In my experience, I'd say it has more to do with the deviation in general and how male deviants are more likely to be perceived as a threat.

MKC7162387 · 2012-11-27T19:04:42+00:00

I totally get what you're saying. I've just stopped caring what society thinks.

I have a pile of panties next to my boxer shorts, a few women's coats, some "girly" socks, and a shirt or two that I couldn't find in men's sizes. I don't care what gender it's supposed to be for or what it looks like (within reason) so long as I'm comfortable wearing it.

Granted I do get the odd comment from strangers about how I'm wearing "girly" clothes (usually they only notice the coat because of what side the buttons are on), but it doesn't bother me.

jethro_skull · 2012-11-28T04:15:51+00:00

My ex-boyfriend used to love wearing my dresses, and since we were the same clothes size, I let him as much as he liked :) Nowadays I still find it pretty sexy when a man (especially straight men) has the courage to say "I like wearing clothes made for women and it makes me feel sexy/pretty/happy." For those on this thread saying they love wearing womens' clothes... good for you! I feel the only way to encourage more acceptance is to put that preference in the public eye, even if it's on the Internet.

cody_au · 2012-11-28T04:51:06+00:00

I want to feel pretty and attractive, but men's clothes do not have the same variety as women's clothes. clothing for my gender is basically a tee-shirt and jeans, right

I'm hetero and I don't wear women's clothes because I don't find them stylish or well fitted. But I do lament your point that women have tremendous variety of cheap clothing, male clothing is always jeans and shirt or a suit and black shoes, all ridiculously expensive!

It's extremely depressing to see women's clothing stores by the dozen with completely different lines. But when it comes to men's clothing there's only a few stuffy stores that all carry the same stock as each other and that looks the same. It fucking sucks.

This might sound crazy (!!! trigger warning, haha !!!), but it is not my daily dream to look worse than every other guy who is wearing the exact same shit as me. If women all dressed the same they'd tire of it quickly, too.

I'm 32 now and too old to care about this shit. I wear jeans to work and everywhere else I wear some cool patterned PJs pants (Peter Alexander) with a t-shirt and flip-flops everywhere, I consider it a throwback to the hippie days of relaxed outer-wear but a little tidier than The Dude.

People look, and some times I even get compliments, other times I can get extremely harsh reactions (or a compliment followed by a "What is that?" and "You can't wear PJs during the day, you're a man!"... serious). But I have a great girlfriend and couldn't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, male or female.

LostInTransIation · 2012-11-27T18:13:13+00:00

You know, there was a time when women weren't socially permitted to wear "men's" clothes. That changed partially due to the feminist movement. The best thing you can do right now is wear whatever the hell you want and don't let other people bother you about it.

Changing society is hard and sometimes painful. Do it anyway.

EpicJ · 2012-11-27T18:41:23+00:00

men wearing seems like one of things that won't catch on there have been a number of attempts to get them even appearing in Star Trek: The Next Generation but it's generally been unsuccessful.

Having said that wearing bright colours especially pink which are considered feminine have become more popular and you'll often see a couple of guys wearing a pink shirt but who knows when other things regarding clothing will change.

rightsbot · 2012-11-27T17:34:29+00:00

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rebuildingMyself · 2012-11-28T05:31:39+00:00

While I am a straight male that likes wearing guy clothes, I have noticed this bullshit ever since I was in grade school. To dare question it resulted in shaming tactics such as "what are you gay or something? You want to wear girls clothes?" which pretty much made my case for me.

Similarly, it's fantastic and awesome for a girl to be a "tomboy" but if a boy wanted to do "girl" things he was always made fun of for it.

robot_therapist · 2012-11-27T19:56:38+00:00

You should check out His Black Dress- it's a blog written by a man who likes pretty clothes, some of which his wife makes for him.

EuphR · 2012-11-27T20:06:04+00:00

Here's he problem with your argument: for a long (read very long) time it was frowned upon for women to wear "men's" clothing. Through antiquity into the Belle Époque women wore "women's" clothing..this entailed corsets, crinolines, heels, fake hair called "rats", incredibly complicated undergarments, large hats pinned to the scalp, etc. While it can be argued that men of antiquity also donned wigs, heels, etc., the more intricate and uncomfortable elements of clothing, such as corsets and crinoline, were never forced upon men.

Throughout history there have been brave women who have worn much more comfortable clothing, deemed masculine, and subsequently have undergone social shaming and scrutiny. An example of this is Gabrielle Chanel, who popularized menswear for women in the later nineteenth, early twentieth-century.

While the birth of women wearing "men's" clothing came as a shift in fashion, it also came with a shift in interest. At the dawn of the twentieth century, leisure wear was created so that women, like men, could be afforded the comfort of engaging in sports, travel, etc. You see, women wearing men's clothing isn't merely a fashion statement, it is a necessity. You can't ride a bicycle in a skirt and high heels (at least not comfortably), and I'm not even going to start on the death rates of women due to corsets.

I think there also lies a huge argument that there is such thing as "men's clothing." I don't think cloth can really be gendered, perhaps socially. It's unfair to claim simple items such as pants and "sweatshirts" belong to men. The point is, throughout history women have been socially oppressed into wearing complicated, and extremely uncomfortable clothing that has infringed on their ability to do anything and has gone as far as to put their health at risk. Their decision to wear practical clothing is no way an action that can be qualified as masculine. It is a necessity to wear pants that cover our legs and shirts that keep us protected and warm. This applies to women and men alike.

Having said all this, I agree that it is a shame that a social stigma exists for men who wish to wear clothing deemed "feminine." While I believe there is no such thing as men's clothing (because isn't men's clothing just items that are practical and comfortable?) I do believe that society has created the concept of women's clothing. I don't agree with this, but it's true that history and society has placed uncomfortable, childish items of clothing (high heels, skirts, anything pink) into the realm of "female" and that is unfair to any man who is interested in said clothing. I think if you feel strongly enough towards this type of clothing, or any type of clothing, you should wear it with no shame. It is beneficial to women and men alike to break any societal gendering of items, including clothing. Power to you.

Nimbus1337 · 2012-11-27T20:43:51+00:00

The only instance I can really think of a woman being called a crossdresser is if she were to wear a men's suit... But even that is pretty acceptable. Women wear white shirt and black tie all the time. It's just the suit coat you don't really ever see quite as much (and if they do have one, it's usually one of those women's business suits contoured to a woman's waist) But there's really not much social stigma even if a woman were to wear a men's suit coat

2012-11-27T21:04:37+00:00

The only real problem I see is sizing.

For a woman, normally we are talking about clothes that are too large for her. And lets not ignore the elephant in the room, this is part of why she looks cute in them.

But for a guy (mostly, but not always) the sizing is in the opposite direction. A smaller girls frame and a larger mans body. It doesn't look good - at all, it doesn't work at all and it doesn't really fit at all. Now you can make the argument that properly sized clothing is available if one knows where to look.... but a big piece of the attraction for women wearing the BOYFRIENDS clothes is that she is wearing the BOYFRIENDS clothes and not something bought from a store.

Or to sum it up differently. The argument could be made that a fetishist buys from an online catalog, but a normal person (please don't kill me, I can't think of a better description!) wants to feel close to there mate and wears the mates clothes.

And because sizing really only goes in one direction, a smaller frame wearing larger clothes, it all falls apart because of the difference between boys and girls.

CyberToyger · 2012-11-28T06:19:45+00:00

Oddly enough I view tomboy girls with crew cuts and wearing leather and studded clothing as female cross-dressers, while the rest of society just sees that as a normal choice in clothing. I'm not saying it's bad or weird or anything, but that to my brain, the female form being covered up by rigid edges just registers differently than a female in a skirt or form-fitting tights or sweatpants. I guess ultimately it's because my mind associates jeans and leather with 'aggressive' no matter which gender is wearing them.

But anywho, right on man! I support males wearing women's clothing not just because it happens to be a fetish of mine buuut.., WAIT DON'T DOWNVOTE ME hear me out! XD , I support it also because it's the Egalitarian thing to do and because the more exposure we have to it the less "weird" it becomes. It's already pretty prevalent in places like Japan, and with a bit of effort, people in Western countries will become more acclimated to it.

It would be great if there was some sort of like meet-up you could go to and talk to other people in person and see one another dressing this way. Being a bisexual furry Brony Libertarian Egalitarian and gamer, I've been to small to moderate sized conventions and meetups for all of these things, but I've never come across or heard of any for "cross-dressing" or fashion acceptance; anyone else have any luck with this so OP has some options and so I could tell my one friend who's currently undergoing M-to-F reassignment?

iwontrememberthis75 · 2012-11-28T15:18:08+00:00

Disclaimer: I'm a woman. I don't think its "wrong" for a male to enjoy wearing anything feminine. I personally am not attracted to that - and to that I say- who the hell cares. There are plenty of men who would say they prefer a woman uphold a much more feminine standard than copying a more masculine appearance in terms of sweatshirts, jeans and male styled shirts. But I disagree with the lot of you. I think you are viewing this backwards :). I am not trying to start a fight or be rude. It seems more acceptable for a woman to add male elements to her wardrobe because she is literally wearing "strength". If maleness equals "the stronger" and putting those airs on visually is upgrading her own sense of "being stronger" and more masculine the opposite is what occurs when a male decides to partake of the more feminine range of clothing choices don't you think? Please do not misunderstand my perspective- I place zero judgement in a male enjoying his own choices with clothing. However our society at large seems to dislike seeing a man appear "weaker" and the feminine is always no matter what usually determined as "weaker". In essence the world wants men to look and appear stronger not weaker. Not my personal POV- but I don't think you can just blame "women" for this- its a cultural and societal type of standard.

ruffykunn · 2012-11-29T12:27:05+00:00

I feel for you. This sucks. :(

Clothing is a prime and primal example of female privilege. Another one would be touch, physical intimacy with friends of the same gender (as in holding hands, cuddling, grooming etc.).

My mom told me once she let me and my brother cross-dress as a small boy, but she did not allow me to leave the house in girl's clothes when I wanted to ...

At prom I was the only guy to wear a brightly coloured sports jacket, everyone else was either wearing black or white jackets. Even then I thought it unfair we guys should be limited to two colours.

I hope I'll live to see those privileges stop and humanity grow to appreciate the free and open expression of what it calls femininity in boys and men :-).

mayonesa · 2012-11-27T21:59:17+00:00

As a straight male who does in fact enjoy wearing clothes intended for girls, I have been ashamed and utterly embarrassed of myself for most of my life because of my interests in it.

Unfortunately, this negates what is unique to men. I don't think this is a men's rights issue, more like an LGBT one.

NWOslave · 2012-11-28T22:37:15+00:00

Too funny. A supposed mens rights site co-opted by the feminist religion. You do know this is patrairchy theory? Right? If it wasn't for the evil patriarchy gender roles you could wear frilly dresses and not be shamed. Why not stuff a dildo up your bum, put on a frilly dress, grab a dolly and weep like an infant so you'll be accepted as goody, goody by all the feminists. Why not go all the way.

tallwheel · 2012-11-27T21:34:08+00:00

lol femmy MRAs.

2012-11-27T21:34:42+00:00

lol femmy MRAs.

Title	Something I realized recently that really aggravates me
Author	LostInTransIation
Upvotes	79
Comments	67
Date	November 27, 2012 5:33 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/13vron/something_i_realized_recently_that_really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/something-i-realized-recently-that-really.1008187 https://theredarchive.com/post/1008187

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