What can we do?

DougDante · 2015-07-09T22:55:34+00:00

Also, posting here does make a difference.

I recall the Veterans Affairs Secretary giving testimony in Congress, and mentioning that what veterans are saying on social media reflected better agency performance. That includes places like /r/veterans, and places like right here.

jimmywiddle · 2015-07-10T13:40:02+00:00

The mistake you have just made is that you think nothing is being done by us discussing things on this sub.

Many people have their eyes opened by this sub reddit and I can assure you that work is going on underneath the comments.

Ninebythreeinch · 2015-07-10T03:04:48+00:00

@/u/sawburst: This sub has 115k subs. That means it can spill over to /r/all once in a while when a good post gets upvoted. That means it can reach frontpage. That means it can come top in google search results. All that work is very powerful in itself.

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-07-09T23:05:29+00:00

Posting on Reddit will do jackshit,

Says the guy posting on Reddit while failing to give us any alternatives.

windkirby · 2015-07-10T00:06:12+00:00

This sub helps me stay sane, at least. A nice respite from the cascades of feminist articles on my Facebook feed.

Lrellok · 2015-07-10T03:45:00+00:00

This space is actually the most productive thing we could be doing right now, as distracted as we get sometimes. What we need is a coherant social theory supported by evidence to counter both patriarchy theory and tradcon. It must be coherant, internally conststant, and easily replicated into soundbytes. And no PUA is not it, PUA is a dating techneque, we need a social thoery, and as a social theory PUA is staggeringly anti social.

augustfell · 2015-07-10T07:23:51+00:00

Memes. Research, design, production, and distribution.

notnotnotfred · 2015-07-10T04:02:15+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/220exx/dont_just_sit_around_here_reading_all_day_go/

azazelcrowley · 2015-07-10T15:06:35+00:00

The subreddit is doing well at raising consciousness across all the MRAs on various issues, as well as raising consciousness on reddit.

Those MRAs then typically bring up these issues elsewhere. It acts as a newssource basically, and it's aimed at informing MRAs about what they need to be talking about in their various places. I bring up mens issues on other sites as well, and IRL, informed by this sub.

It's also a safe space (ish) for men to talk about their issues and receive support and advice, as well as engage in networking to some degree, and occasionally acts as a decent springboard for petitions and letter campaigns.

But that's about the extent of what can be accomplished on reddit. To go further, we need to organize and begin founding real life groups and clubs, as well as maybe some publications.

We COULD also practice Entryism and start joining political parties and their meetings a lot more, try and work your way into journalistic careers and other media outlets, etc, and pushing mens issues into the spotlight.

The dirty little secret of anglospheric democracies is that the person who represents the constituency is basically decided in a locked room by about 30 people more often than not. Joining your party meetings and giving, or withholding, your vote for who will be the candidate based on mens issues could quickly see progress on these issues.

Or even both. I've said before that we kind of need to start organizing into local units.

RedditorJemi · 2015-07-11T09:05:05+00:00

It depends on what your skills are. If you are a good writer, then writing a blog is your best bet. If you like carrying signs, then protesting IRL is your best bet. Are you in college? If so, check and see if there's a men's group on campus. If not, start one. Is there a men's group in your local community? If not, think about starting one. If that doesn't seem feasible however, then doing stuff online only can still be very effective.

Think about strategy. How can we beat feminists? What are their weaknesses? Where have we already had success? For example, the MRA and MGTOW community has had a lot of success on youtube. I keep looking for evidence of any wildly successful feminists on youtube, and I've found none whatsoever. The reasons for this are simple: vote brigading has even less effect on youtube than it does on reddit, and feminists hate having to deal with any competing viewpoints. Feminists can put up youtube videos and hope for the best, but if their response to anyone coming to one of their videos and voicing disagreements is just to ban comments on that video, that video has no reason to become popular. And if they ban voting on that video, then it really cannot become popular - unless its popularity is driven entirely from outside of youtube - in which case they can only reach the same stale crowd they've always been able to reach.

On the other hand, the presence of MRA's and MGTOW's on youtube is large and continually growing. We have real content that does not merely repeat the same old talking points that have been rehashed a thousand times - unlike feminists who can very rarely say anything that is not essentially just a repeat of something some other feminist said. That whole echo chamber environment that feminists feed on gets real old, real quick with people who have not already been indoctrinated with feminist views. For this reason, creating youtube videos, if you're able to create good ones that go on to become popular, can be enormously beneficial to the community. The news media doesn't want to cover us, but on youtube we can reach more pairs of eyes than any individual media mainstream media outlet ever could. This is somewhat possible on reddit also. If a post makes it to the frontpage of reddit it could end up being seen by a million people. But there is no concept of a video getting old on youtube, whereas a reddit post has to start getting hot within an hour or two in order to make it to the front page, and will eventually drop off and be forgotten about. Youtube videos stay on Youtube indefinitely, and while youtube might promote videos more while they're new (not sure), they do not cease having the potential to attract new viewers.

Other places we've had success are avoiceformen.com - which is a beautiful site IMHO, reddit, and the huge number of men's rights blogs on the internet. As Paul Elam has basically already said, we already have a media empire as it stands. I think he meant that avoiceformen.com is a media company in itself, but I'm extending that to the entire manosphere - which as a whole constitutes a media empire of gigantic proportions. We're still a baby media empire, but If you consider that avoiceformen.com has has only existed since 2009, we've definitely come a long, long way.

This is not a reason to get complacent of course. The battle we're fighting is an uphill one, and we're going to have to be willing to get mud in our eye and get very creative to win. Do not undervalue your ability to contribute as an individual. Anyone who can blog can reach a million readers (eventually), and anyone who can make youtube videos can reach a million viewers (likewise). Also, have you convinced any of your family members yet? If not, that's probably the very first thing you should work on. When we think about the number of subscribers to a subbreddit, a youtube channel or a blog, we're always talking primarily about a large number of people who already hold largely the same viewpoints. The value of convincing one single individual must always be held to be very high indeed. Each individual you convince has the power to convince others, or at least bring legitimacy to the movement just by trying - and this goes especially for your own mother. If mom can be convinced, convince her. The public will not take us seriously without females in the movement.

I'm going to finish here with a list of 10 things that I perceive to be needed currently:

1) Reaching more people - Just extending our presence to as many pockets of the internet (and the real world) as possible.

2) Finding research - I know there is a ton of research out there that supports us already. But we always need more.

3) Organizing collected research - It's too friggin' hard to find all those damn PDF's!

4) Exposing feminism - People need to be able to see what feminists do (yes, we need to do this more).

5) Fighting against feminist censorship - Don't let them shut us down, and expose them when they try!

6) Fighting against feminist self-censorship - take screenshots of feminist blogs as well as pertinent articles in the media. Use GGBlocker to archive feminist content. We definitely don't want anything any feminist says to ever fall off the web.

7) Expose misandry - Talk about misandry. Make sure people know that it's an issue. You will have to go to great lengths to convince people it's an issue. Unraveling feminist societal brainwashing starts here.

8) Men's issues - Write your congressman. Tell your mother. We have complaints that need to be aired, and we're not going to shut up until people listen.

9) Creating an environment where male victims can speak out - This means showing compassion to other males, even though society tells us that our masculinity hinges on not doing so. Obviously, men's shelters are a huge part of this. But it's going to take a lot of work to get to the point where there are a significant number of them. However, remember that any time there are multiple males in a room who actually give a fuck about men's issues, that room has the potential to be a safe space. This can still apply even if there are a small number of females also, as long as those females are genuinely compassionate people.

10) Undermining feminist assumptions - Every single one of them. Master rhetoric and force them out of their comfort zone. We already have the logic. The trick is to force their brains to receive it. If we're arguing successfully, even their own echo chambers cannot save them from the confusion of having to deal with naked reality. Art is very good for this. Anything from political cartoons to well crafted poetry, paintings, murals, comic books, music videos, etc. Anything that can circumvent the normal routes of logic where people (especially feminists) erect barriers to it. People are like violins. Learn to play the fiddle.

[Edited for formatting]

SilencingNarrative · 2015-07-10T12:49:56+00:00

The mrm has made tremendous gains in the past 3 years. I am at a loss to understand how people can assert that we "haven't done jack shit".

justthatguy9 · 2015-07-10T12:19:30+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Estephe · 2015-07-10T16:17:34+00:00

Self-educate (voraciously) and refuse to comply with peer pressure to adopt the conformist orthodoxy. Resist the downward trajectory of the Cult of Mediocrity every second of the day with every cell in your non-socially-constructed body and sex-differentiated brain.

2015-07-10T11:16:07+00:00

It's one thing to read about the horrors here, but another to steer clear.

When you meet that special someone you'll trust her and forget all the problems in the world. You'll say those things won't happen to me.

Plenty used to and still do drive around without a belt saying they'll never need it. Just a short trip. It's uncomfortable. You've never needed it. You don't speed.

Then one day. Bam. Out through the front window. Dead.

You can start with yourself.

Don't get married.
Always get paternity verified.
Always be recording when things get strange with a woman.
Always think of having a record of your whereabouts. Always have an alibi(keep receipts, pay with card, be with a buddy).
Never forget that having an opinion is dangerous. Especially around feminists. Better to not lose your job while waging ideological battle anonymously.
Don't kill yourself. Every time a man kills himself, feminists celebrate;The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race".
A woman isn't always better than masturbation when you account for possible baggage. Think harder next time. She can practically have moved in afterwards and cry rape if you put the foot down.
Seriously reconsider your efforts into getting women, beyond going to the gym. Unless you're sterile, and even then women can put you into heavy debt, learning a trade or other marketable skill is going to be the better option. It may go wrong anyway, but with the skills to pay the bills you'll be an order of magnitude better off than with the skills to get into even more trouble with women.

Then with others

Don't encourage and actively try to prevent murder suicide and killing spree type men. One of the most successful agents and political instruments of feminists are the likes of Elliot Rodger and Marc Lepine. Point out to these that they bolster and hoist feminism up into the sky leading to the exact opposite of what they're hoping for.
Show the effects of divorce to other men and the bad odds.
Show how much a lawyer can end up costing you.
Show how rampant cheating and cuckolding culture is and increasingly simply thought of as a part of life, i.e. normalized.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-07-09T22:17:16+00:00

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rbrockway · 2015-07-12T00:39:29+00:00

Sometimes we're criticised for not doing more government lobbying. Right now the majority of the population (men and women alike) still don't accept that there are problems. Until there is greater recognition of the problems facing men and boys attempts at government lobbying will largely fail.

So I'm comfortable with the activities of the MRM up to this point. I think we will soon be at the point where the problems are recognised so in the near future we will need to change tack. I know a lot of active MRAs feel this way and we are looking at what we can do to accelerate change.

pnw_diver · 2015-07-10T06:08:00+00:00

The best revenge is to live well.

It could also be that all we need to do is rest comfortably in the knowledge that we have found a truth, and to simply live our lives, and talk to people, and not bow down. There are so many men like us that we've already won.

Being a bit more serious:

Feminism's greatest success is taking over the education system and deploying it against men and boys. This is a generational battle they have won against their self-determined enemy, us, exploiting the fact that education jobs aren't as high paying or "breadwinner" jobs, so we men don't take them as much, though they are critically important in programming the adults of the future. If we want to have a stronger place in the future we need to involve ourselves with K-12 education, and children. They're the future! The more education jobs that we men take away from women, the better.

Finally: don't forget animal realities. They need us more than we need them. Remember that every day in your life.

wisty · 2015-07-10T23:34:44+00:00

Imagine you live in a dictatorship. A lot of people hate the king / generalissimo, but they don't know that this is a commonly held view.

Often, it's a public gathering that triggers the revolt. A bunch of people realise that there's too many dissidents to be quietly taken down. Online spaces can fill the same role.

We know that there's a lot of us, and a lot who vaguely side with us. Obviously there's limits (as there should be - not every interest group is right about everything), but people know that if they stand against double-standards, they won't be opposed by the population as a whole.

We also know that the people who hate men's rights are a small minority (with an outsized presence in the media / Twitter / certain parts of academia), and are largely seen as a joke, even by much of the left.

Concrete steps? How about a crowd-funded poll. Not a push-poll, statistically valid polling about attitudes towards any legal reforms we want. I'm no expert, but something on the order of $5000 seems to be a reasonable guess. Getting the questions sorted out would be the big thing (you don't want a push-poll - genuinely find out whether reforms would be seen as a good thing).

Ultimately, the MRM will never be a huge force, for the same reason feminism will never get its shit together. There's inherent hypocrisy - you'll never get the nature vs nurture debate settled, so we'll never agree on certain things. But whatever the case, equality before the law is a pretty good goal to work towards.

Demonspawn · 2015-07-11T02:25:42+00:00

Revolt

Expat

Turtle

Those are your three choices. Anything else is going to lose against women's 55% control of suffrage while only contributing 1/4 to 1/3 of taxes and 0% of conscription, while both men (weakly) and women (strongly) have biologically ingrained group preference for women's concerns.

Simply put, there is no political solution for the MRM. The Titanic of western society hit the iceberg when it allowed women's suffrage. There is no "fixing" it from that point on, only replacing (Revolt), escaping (Expat), or waiting for it to sink (Turtle).

CisWhiteMaelstrom · 2015-07-10T02:29:08+00:00

The MRM's never gonna do anything because this place is structurally flawed. There's ZERO focus on who you guys are, which probably means you're a bunch of skinny fats who obviously aren't gonna have much prestige, social status, or influence which is why NOBODY talks about the MRM.

Half of what you guys do is beg feminists to be your friend. "Hey feminists, look! We're such a moderate and well behaved movement. Aren't we good little bitch boys who behave so well? Won't you please reward us with validation and praise? Pls? Pls respond. Feminists?" And no, the anti-feminism here is not a counterexample. You guys aren't the radicalized angry men who society has to deal with. You're the little bitch boys in class who point out where the teacher fucked up on the chalk board so that they'll reward you with a cookie and call home to tell your parents what a good little boy you are.

Hell, you guys even shit on your friends to look cool to this bitchy girl named feminism who you've been failing to seduce for years now. Guys like the red pill are your friends. We see your problems, side with you, want the best for men, and pay attention. Any movement with half a brain knows to look to your friends. But nooooo, the MRM just shits all over them because his pathetic little one sided crush is watching, and she's gonna be real impressed right? By the way can any of you SJWs even describe our theories in an accurate charitable way, or do you just let the feminists tell you what to think and never actually look to see if we're truly evil? Bonus points, did you look over and see something kinda mean and then instantly decide it proves the fem fems right (omg women are children right??!) and then pat yourself on the back for being little bitch boys who pretend to critically think?

Not to mention, you pussies are the worst misandrists out there. Decrying masculinity isn't pro-male liberation of having to live up to whatever. Decrying masculinity is hatred of men. You know what people do who love men? They lift, chase tail, let the boys get angry and throw sticks at the girls, and disregard what the fem fems have to say about it. At least feminists have the decency to drink out of male tears mugs so that we know where they stand on men. The MRM on the other hand pretends to be something other than another feminist bitch shitting on them.

Oh, and another thing. What the fuck was that Elliot Rodgers fiasco? No, I'm not asking about the shooting. God knows I'm not asking about the shooting. I'm asking why you guys acted like such pussies over it. Something inconsequential and stupid happens, some feminists bitch about it and make stupid arguments, and you assholes fell all over yourselfs trying to pander to them. "No, we hate PUAs and we're nothing like the manosphere. Rly guise, we love you. See, we'll just push ourselves away from our friends some more. Do you love us now? No? Oh well, we're still here trying to please you okay? We'll be here whenever you come around." You seriously think they were trying to argue with you? No. They weren't. That was a shit test. They were giving you shit to see if you guys would act like a bunch of bitches or if you were secure enough in your own movement and cause to just ignore them.

And goddamn you guys, you like Karen Straughan? Don't get me wrong, I love Karen Straughan but you MUST see the hypocrisy there. Her theories are basically textbook red pill with a little bit of justice thrown in. I mean she's red as fuck and gives red pill explanations for men's issues and you guys love them. She even admits in one of her videos that men do the same thing she does but that she gets views because she's a woman. Do I think you should abandon her? No. Not at all. I think you should recognize the hypocrisy where you guys get all up in your white knight buttholes whenever reds speak red unless it's a girl because the women are just soooooooo wonderful to these pussy MRAs. It's okay when she says it. We upvoted her AMA because we like her theories. We're consistent and upvote all good content. You assholes were either downvoting us for being men or upvoting her for being a woman but there's NO nonsexist, nonbullshit way to spin this one. Goddamn you guys piss me off so goddamn much with your gynocentric misandric hypocritical white knight bullshit.

So what can you do? Fix your goddamn issues. Stop hating on men for being men, stop hating their masculinity, stop distrusting men, stop hating your goddamn friends whenever that bitchy girl feminism that you've been orbiting for years says something mean about them and promises you guys sex, and man the fuck up. Oh my god, you guys really are a bunch of pussy ass clowns and THAT's why nobody respects you. It's NOT male disposability. It's NOT absence of issues. It's pussy ass damseling shit test failing beta sucking up shit head antics. Fix all that, and you might have a shot at changing the world.

Stupid fucks.

Title	What can we do?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	30
Comments	82
Date	July 9, 2015 10:17 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3cq8sz/what_can_we_do/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-can-we-do.975808 https://theredarchive.com/post/975808

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