CMV while biological instincts make a difference for relationships, the ideal solution would be to minimize them rather than to acknowledge and go back to tradition.

Giimax · 2020-01-19T00:38:01+00:00

[deleted]

CentralAdmin · 2020-01-19T00:52:24+00:00

I think the line between masculine and feminine has become blurred and it's confusing for everyone. And you don't need to be male to be masculine (although the overwhelming majority are) and vice versa.

It's also a very bad time for masculinity in general, as though it's some kind of negative trait that needs to be stamped out.

I think the traditional roles worked but not necessarily for the right reasons. We're now in a post-traditional world where things are falling apart because we are flying in the dark with no map.

I don't think we need to go back to how it was, but I think progress will involve some degree of people stepping back and realising that there are major differences between the temperament of men and women, and that this is something to be celebrated, not ironed out. Maybe both partners working and no one staying home to raise the children is a bad thing, not worth the extra 20 grand a year or whatever you make after taking into consideration the additional cost of childcare.

We are in an unstable equilibrium. There are deer that compete sexually on the size of their antlers, and their offspring ended up with bigger and bigger antlers across generations to the extent now that their necks are breaking. I think we're in an comparable situation with many of the things we are doing in society at the moment. You named a few. Things like social media etc are also pretty bad.

Aaren_Augustine · 2020-01-19T01:38:39+00:00

better for everyone if we continued trying to condition our primitive instincts out.

You won't. Not you, not Feminism, not China, not anyone. No one prayed the gay away and beautiful women will never find obese basement dwellers sexually attractive.

To deny this is to never truly tame it. The best you could do is go your own way and somehow make peace with the hole you can't fill because you are too weak for the monumental effort of succeeding.

biological instincts are also the reason people enjoy binging on junk food

I do extended fasting. Its insurmountably difficult for me but it has and never will quell the enjoyment I get from food. But in that pursuit, I learn discipline.

And that's what you do. Learn discipline, accept your wants and needs. Learn to succeed in spite of biological instincts. More often than not, you can learn to both feed your instincts while beings successful.

We call this survival of the fittest.

You're view is nothing more than trying to pray the gay away. You can't negotiate attraction.

GrumpyOldHistoricist · 2020-01-19T05:10:51+00:00

A return to instinct is not a return to tradition. Human civilization is a 10,000 year project to blunt, channel, and redirect instinct. Traditions like monogamy, shaming promiscuity, and mating for life are counter to human instinct.

It’s also why they’re socially positive. They evolved in no small part to mitigate the effects of the natural war of each against all in human coupling. Some of the ways in which monogamy was organized and enforced in the past weren’t always conducive to individual happiness, but they were good for social stability and cohesion.

Physiologist21 · 2020-01-19T06:37:51+00:00

Biological instincts across all domains are far more in favor or tradition than not. Just sayin, regardless, it's a good thing we are not mindless apes and can use our big brains to do better.

NarniaFox · 2020-01-19T01:39:05+00:00

I wonder how many relationship stereotypes really have a biological base and how many of them were just created by our society.

Workaholiconew · 2020-01-19T14:56:10+00:00

Do you seriously believe men don't control their instincts? They do. Sure, not all men win against their instincts, sure, but we try, A LOT. Do you not know how instincts work? how we suffer for being sexless for weeks? but we stay

The whole point of TRP saying "AF/BB" and "monkeybranch" is because women don't try to control their nature like men do with their male counterparts.

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Marketing_Baboon · 2020-01-19T01:40:15+00:00

I would say you should seek to minimize the differences in areas that lead to conflict. In other areas the difference has to be maintained for the sake of arousal. So as an example, modern men need to do more cooking and cleaning because modern women with careers have less time to do it themselves even though it's traditionally been delegated to women. If you dont, it becomes a big source of conflict. Other things need to be maintained, women are quickly irritated by overly-feminine men and vice-versa.

Darkseeker_Mau · 2020-01-19T02:09:02+00:00

It wouldn't even take that long, and it might come naturally over time. Look at how long it took for arranged marriages to go away.

All changes and transformations only occur out of necessity. So where's the necessity and the urgency of minimizing biological instincts?

People only change when they are forced to, the incentives to change is what matters the most in this discussion.

The current set up that we live under incentives instinctual behaviors in some cases, in others it penalizes strategic thinking, in others it remains neutral.

So, where's the incentive for things to change?

Shhyrr · 2020-01-19T02:47:09+00:00

Because by conditioning them out, you are also conditioning out other useful things to do with male-female relationships.

With your example of junk food eating. I think it's like conditioning out hunger to stop junk food eating. Except, junk food is easy to condition out on its own without many adverse affects. These male-female interactions on the other hand are ideally sculpted to fit life in ways we dont fully understand. And it has roots in the structure of the wider society as a whole.

I think to edit these large things to fit an ideal isnt gonna work. Like sure removing arranged marriages gave us all amazing freedom to get with who WE want. But time will tell which was the better way overall. As times change, we need to change our traditions, but only to better fit the different lifestyle. Not to fit an ideal.

PapaPinyun · 2020-01-19T02:47:46+00:00

"When life is ascending, happiness is the same as instinct." haha 2 uncle Freds in like 2 minutes

OneStopShopMan · 2020-01-19T03:43:58+00:00

What’s your goal? You mention a solution, but what’s the problem?

Evolution has been doing a pretty good job of making sure the best genes suited for making copies of themselves get passed on, but that doesn’t say anything about the happiness or quality of life of the people with those genes.

I bring this up because what you said about food really struck a chord with me.

I’ve been into fitness and diet for a long time, but I never applied those same lessons to sexual appetites.

In fitness my body tells me to be lazy and conserve energy and it feels good when I relax, but I know in my head and through experience that I am happier when I stick with my gym routine.

In diet my body tells me it might be months before I find food again so I should eat everything salty, sweet, and fatty that I can find. I know in my head that it isn’t true, and through experience I am happier when I regulate what I eat.

One thing I guess I haven’t gotten into my head yet is how sexual appetite plays into this idea. My body and my mind to some degree want to fuck any hot woman I see, regardless of consequence. I know this is a biological urge just like wanting to overeat, but the red pill would say the sexual biological need is ok to seek to fulfill, but the eating is a baser instinct that needs to be tamed.

Are you asking if we might be happier in the sexual realm if just like in dieting we go against our biological instincts and do instead what we know will make us happier?

G77R23D · 2020-01-19T04:24:09+00:00

K bro I'll get right on that.

huggyjunior · 2020-01-19T06:41:24+00:00

I like being a big strong guy. I like being the boss. I like being dominant. Yes this means that every single thing that happens in my life is 100% and entirely my fault. Not just my life, but for my kids as well. Until they are in a place where they can lead? They are on me as well.

Something bad happens? It's all on me. But the good things that happen? Me. I made that.

And Mrs huggyjunior? She loves being a girl. She loves that she can be vulnerable, that she can cry when she feels like crying, that she can focus 100% on the home and the kids and all the rest of the world I lift off her shoulders. She can just be herself, because I make sure that she can without destruction. I keep her.

Biological instinct? We aren't animals. We don't act like beasts all of the time, but I create a world where we can. A world where my wife feels safe and happy calling me master, without any bizarre bdsm faggotry. And their is no safe word.

But you go ahead and do you. You go right ahead and you do whatever you want. Rare is the girl who meets a beast, and that beast takes her along as his bride.

You go do you I will not interfere. But hell if you think I'm going to allow you to interfere in my world.

Go be an androgynous. We had these before. Eunuchs

acron5n5 · 2020-01-19T07:32:45+00:00

Look, for something like this to happen people need an incentive.

Men are already massively ditching their standards and whatnot because they have to, whereas women are more or less okay with the current situation and I cannot think of any reason why would they minimize the impact of 'biological instincts'

Zippo-Cat · 2020-01-19T07:40:20+00:00

Yeah, except you can't "minimize" instinct.

lahadley · 2020-01-19T09:04:44+00:00

Arranged or quasi-arranged marriages are incredibly common across class and status groups, in wealthy and poor nations alike. They are also relatively successful, on the whole. There are countless well-off people from the subcontinent in the USA and similar nations, living in arranged marriages and thriving. Many build their life in the states/Australia/similar, then get their bride sorted back home and she also relocates. For others, mutual relatives arrange a meeting and everything flows the traditional way. These are well-educated, professional and double-income couples who are Western-ised in other ways. Many have spent large swathes of time away from their native land.

A downside is that for some, it does not go well and they are relatively vulnerable, due to how conformist the culture is. Even more vulnerable if they emigrate. But yeah, even thinking that arranged marriages have 'gone away' seems a little bizarre.

wertrax · 2020-01-19T14:12:17+00:00

Tradition is not biology. Actually, that's why it failed.

2020-01-20T09:46:29+00:00

People overestimate the extent to which human nature is malleable. In the short term you can have cults or nations that try to rewire human nature but they inevitably burn out.

When you talk about conditioning our instincts - understand there’s a limit to what can be achieved in our lifetime. It will take thousands of years, perhaps tens of thousands, for evolution to change who we are deep down.

Title	CMV while biological instincts make a difference for relationships, the ideal solution would be to minimize them rather than to acknowledge and go back to tradition.
Author	Giimax
Upvotes	14
Comments	55
Date	January 19, 2020 12:36 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/eqp5t3/cmv_while_biological_instincts_make_a_difference/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-while-biological-instincts-make-a-difference.312149 https://theredarchive.com/post/312149

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