Is rape about power

TheGreasyPole · 2015-08-30T12:32:42+00:00

Rape can be used for power, but as far as I can see in the western world it's about sex.

Certainly, for those seeking to protect themselves from it in our society I think regarding it as motivated by sex is the best way to protect and defend yourself from it happening.

As such I think the whole "rape is always about power" thing is, if anything, making women less safe.

I'd regard "not putting yourself in a position where a man who sexually desires you could use violence to get it" is a more protective action than "not putting yourself in a position where a man who wants to dominate you could use sex to do it".

Basically, I think feminism has hared off down a big blind alley here.

Rape seems to be (in the peaceful west) the use of violence to get sex....not the use of sex to gain power.

thats_not_what_i_hea · 2015-08-30T11:43:19+00:00

When porn made it to home video in the early '80s, feminists opposed it and claimed it would turn men into rape monsters. The opposite happened - rape went down dramatically. I think it has far more to do with horniness.

CRUSHPUSSY_MARRYAMAN · 2015-08-30T11:23:29+00:00

I have never believed that. I am not a rapist, and would never do that, but coming from the male perspective, I can say with certainty that if I did decide to rape a woman, it would be because I am too horny and attracted to her to think straight, and I felt like I had no other outlet... not because I want to "dominate" her.

[deleted] · 2015-08-30T12:22:41+00:00

I imagine it'd differ on a case-by-case basis. I never understood people arguing "all cases of rape are motivated by power." It'd be like me saying "all cases of murder are motivated by revenge." Clearly that's not true, each case has a different motivation.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-31T09:50:35+00:00

Rape being about power is the interpretation of rape from a gynocentric perspective - because for women, I'd wager that nothing is as disempowering as rape.

Being able to consent to having sex is the greatest power the average woman has - with the implied promise of access to her sexuality, she can make men of all ages do all kinds of crazy stuff for her and behave like total chumps; or she can leverage actual access to her sexuality for even greater tangible benefits (if she's smart enough). Her being raped takes away that power and really rubs it in that it is basically completely virtual and fully depends on the willingness of men (in her community as well as men in general) to respect her personal autonomy. Even women who are virgins and willfully abstain from having sex (and therefore don't directly benefit from it as other women can) are affected by this because getting raped devalues a very central decision she made for herself and basically completely nullifies it with a single action. Furthermore, the very threat of being raped forces a woman to constrain herself and control her actions. And by that I don't just mean "not dressing provocatively", but also by being limited in her personal freedom of movement - a woman can't just walk home alone at night because of the possibility something might happen to her, a fear most men in reasonably secure societies don't have.

Is there rape that is about power? Definitely. Someone with a sadistic sociopathic streak probably gets of more on the idea of totally dominating a person than about the act itself. Someone whose personal mental health has been weathered down by constant rejection and resorts to rape as a coping mechanism is also on a level trying to counter his own feeling of powerlessness and (sexual) worthlessness. Rape as a war crime also has shades of this. Raping a woman to "put her in her place" is also about power.

But on the other hand, you also have the sexual element. There was once a loophole in the lawes of some US city that basically made prositution legal and possible before it got closed, and during that phase the rape rates dropped by 30%. A drunk sexual encounter after a party or a night's out at a bar? Probably about sex as well. Having consensual sex with a woman who suddenly decides that she's uncomfortable with it, but getting carried away and ignoring her objections? About sex (unless the whole thing had a D/S-angle from the beginning). Having (drunk) sex at a frat party that's retroactively considered rape? About sex.

The irony is that feminists, in their relentless desire to constantly broaden the meaning of "rape", have made it less and less about power.

HappilySingleWoman · 2015-08-30T11:45:49+00:00

Sometimes , I think it is safe to assume that at least in some cases rape IS about power.

Think about the concept of rape when it comes to war crimes for example. These soldiers might not normally be rapists but they see this kind of rape as getting some sort of revenge on their opponents and completely crushing them by raping their women. It is about power , I don't think that these soldiers just "can't control themselves".

crankypants15 · 2015-08-30T20:49:33+00:00

In a minority of rape cases, that's what the "experts" say, but I'm not so sure. In the minority of rapes, a guy with very poor social skills, even to the point of being a psychopath, wants sex, and takes it violently. There are certainly cases where the man hates women and does rape to degrade her, but I have seen no reliable evidence for that being the majority of actual rape cases (vs rape convictions). Police records are often only based on convicted rapists, and do not include the ones that got away, thus the sample is biased towards the cases that are exceptionally violent, with plenty of physical evidence that the perp is dangerous to society... which results in a conviction.

Most rapes are not violent rapes where a woman is abducted from the street, or a man forces himself into her apartment. Most rapes occur between 2 people who know each other, and may actually be dating, and there is a serious, unfortunate, lack of communication about expectations. Most of these rapes are not even reported even if a man was raped.

Sorry I don't have the link to the study. I really need a free note taker that supports tags to help me keep track of all these links.

NOTE: A woman tried to rape me. I don't think she is a violent person who is a danger to society. But she made a horrible decision while she was drunk. I didn't want to call the police and ruin her life for a one-time bad drunken decision. I wanted her off me.

AnnoyingSeaAnt · 2015-08-30T14:21:25+00:00

No.

Most rapists are recidivists , check the stats. It's probably more about some sort of irrepressible fetish, like pedophilia.

"Rape is about power" is another way to blame the almighty patriarchy. And yeah , war and repression is another matter entirely.

JeanValjean197o · 2015-08-30T13:13:58+00:00

Depends on what kind of rape.

I suppose the guy who breaks into your home and holds you at knife point is interested in something more than sexual gratification.

However, if you mean the "I got drunk and banged some Beta at a party and now I regret it or my friends called me a slut so I'm going to tell the University and declare myself a victim and thus not a slut", then if that's about power then it's women wanting power and not the dude she had sex with.

I reject the notion that you cannot prevent rape. This is a sad and twisted viewpoint whose only purpose is to create a false dichotomy. Of course rape is the fault of the rapist. But if we expect people to lock their doors, or to not leave valuables on the seat of their car then are we claiming they invite crime? That it's their fault someone broke in? No. What we want to do is to prevent crime and women can absolutely be a part of crime prevention.

That said, if women truly believe that men are nothing more than patriarchal rape machines and that we live in a rape culture then why do they engage in such risky behavior?

If I thought there were tigers on the loose in the local park I wouldn't go jogging with raw meat tied around my neck. And if I did just that wouldn't the authorities be right in asking me if I was jogging with meat around my neck when attacked?

There is a definite cause and effect. People who go to a party and drink heavily do so because they want to have a good time. It is a sexually charged atmosphere. Dancing, by its very nature is a sexually charged activity. So, when determining consent it's not wrong to ask if the "victim" was dancing provocatively with the suspect. Or if she went willingly or even suggested they go back to his or her room. If she willingly took off her/his clothes.

And after all that, when a woman walks away from a "rape" without so much as a scratch then how exactly has she been harmed?

If it wasn't worth it to her to fight off her attacker and sustain even the most minimal of damage then how is it worth it for a jury to send him to prison for a decade?

I've heard feminists say that rape is the most horrible crime a woman can experience.

To me, I imagine the most horrible crime I could experience is to be repeatedly stabbed to death. The logic of, "If she fought back then she would just be hurt even more," doesn't work for me. If someone is stabbing me and that's the worst thing that can happen then fighting back might stop the crime or turn the tables so I'm absolutely going to do that.

But apparently, some the women who are being date raped can't be bothered to fight or even report it until months later.

Yes, I know there are some women who are unconscious. Guys shouldn't be fucking them when they are unconscious. But in this case we've seen repeated cases where women engaged in sex with men who were passed out and got a pass. Be that as it may, can we really call this a crime of violence? This is just some turd taking advantage of someone.

A man doesn't go through all the trouble of seducing a woman, getting her to like and trust him, then convincing her to come to his room or her room so he can have some power over her.

Clearly, rape is not about power. Anyone caught raping is going to be destroyed if she speaks out. Even if the charges do not result in conviction his reputation is destroyed. The power resides squarely in the hands of women who level the accusations.

Now then, RAPE!! as a feminist political tool is absolutely about power. I can't count the number of arguments with feminists where I dismantled every claim and argument and they finally just said, "Well, what about RAPE!". Back then I didn't know what to say, but now I'm smarter and I'll just say, "What about it?"

RAPE! is a big business for feminists. Countless rape shelters and hot lines exists and act as a de facto job back for feminists, but many remain empty and unused. Nothing gets women more hyped on college campuses that Take Back the Night rallies even though rape is almost nonexistent on college campuses.

Feminists have repeatedly created surveys where they deliberately redefine what rape is so they can claim the numbers are higher than they are. Meanwhile, rapes are actually very rare on campus and women on campus are safer than anywhere else.

But hey, as long as feminists are making money and getting women to support them then they'll keep telling these lies.

So, to recap. Rape is not about power. It is very disempowering for men. Men who do it are usually destroyed and even known liars like Mattress Girl Emma Sulkowicz are held up as heroes.

Who has the power there? Her rapists who was cleared and yet had his name dragged through the mud for years and was not protected by the university or Emma who clearly lied and even after the lies were revealed and after she made a porno (where no rape occurred) she is still held up as a hero?

Frankly, feminists have no perspective and the women who follow them are idiots. Yet another reason I will never marry.

But I digress. I am just a man after all.

Archwinger · 2015-08-30T15:17:27+00:00

All interactions are about power.

Regarding rape, specifically, many women draw their power, even their identity, from the choice of who to fuck. Women are social creatures, moreso than men. Who they hang with, who they date, who they fuck casually, who appears in Facebook pictures next to them - that's all part of the social resume they cultivate and use to gauge one another and navigate the world.

When a guy just outright takes away a woman's sexual choice, it's a crime against her very being. Not just because of the one act, but because of what it signifies. All that time and energy spent building a life that is just so, to appear a certain way, attract certain types of people, accomplish certain things, and navigate our highly social world suddenly meant nothing. Some brute proved that we still live in caveman times, and none of that shit matters. That someone can just disregard all that social power and all those social rules because he's stronger.

PetticoatRuled · 2015-08-30T12:21:28+00:00

It's about entitlement.

Rape is against our societal moral code, and we know it's wrong.

Just like, everyday, want to hurt or even kill people who annoy us or stand in our way. We want to steal things that we don't have. But we don't do it.

It would take a strong sense of either entitlement or desperation to hurt, steal or kill.

Rape is never out of desperation. Only entitlement. No one rapes in self defence. No one rapes in order to stay alive (in contrast to someone stealing food when starving).

No one rapes simply because they're "horny". That can be a reason, but it can only go hand-in-hand with entitlement.

As a person with an extremely high drive, I've experienced that rush of blood that leaves the head and leaves nothing behind but a single thought: sex. And the anger that follows if sex doesn't happen for whatever reason (not anger at the other person, just . . . anger. Worse than mere frustration. Hard to describe if you haven't experienced it).

For a man, it's different again, because his experience of the world is that it's 'masculine' to have sex with women - lots of women. His drive to have sex is therefore greater. And coming from that, a sense of entitlement: Men are stronger than women and therefore their needs come first and should be respected above women's.

So, you could say that it is about 'power' in that respect, but I don't believe all rapists do it out of a sense of power. It's all the above, but also, they might do it to gain a sense of power ("It's masculine to rape/have sex with women")

A percentage of rapists are psychopaths and sociopaths - they might lack a conscience. This is entitlement in overdrive. What they want, they want and no one else matters. A psychopath/sociopath might also feel a definite surge of power.

ReddishBlack · 2015-08-30T14:33:29+00:00

Rape is an example of why evolutionary psychology alone is not enough to make claims as to what we ought to do as humans, and why appeals to nature are a fallacy.

Given the proper primitive environmental context, such as sexual scarcity, intense violent competition, and a dominant harem based sexual culture, a normal man can be compelled to act as a rapist. That is, to kill a man who has dominion over a wife, and forcibly have sex with her without her consent in order to satisfy your sexual urges. This is assuming there is an absence of a modern sense of popular morality, which it can be assumed there were, and in some cases still is.

These sort of things are part of our hunter gatherer past that are conveniently not mentioned in redpill advocacy for an evo-psych based sexual strategy. If we behave as nature compels us to, then raping the wives of competitors and uncooperative women should not be ethically out of the question if we are using evo psych as our guideline for behavior.

This is of course morally wrong, in the way that you are damaging the lives of others for a disproportionately small benefit for yourself. Considering each time that you are urged to have sex and have a habit of raping, you will cause mental and physical damage to another member of society, your removal from that society would not only be warranted, but necessary in order for it to function in a healthy way.

Further reading, or google evopsych rape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape#A_Natural_History_of_Rape

ThorLives · 2015-08-30T17:55:33+00:00

ITT: Women arguing that rape is about power or "entitlement". Men arguing that it's not - that it's about sex or a variety of reasons.

I know what side I'm on: I think the "rape is about power" is a feminist misunderstanding of the whole situation. Since "rape" is generally contextualized as "male on female rape", I have to wonder why women think that they understand the motivations of men better than men do.

Lonny_zone · 2015-08-30T18:17:49+00:00

Stranger rape in a dark alley is about power.

"Date rape" in a dorm room is about sexual gratification and the naivete of the "victim."

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-08-30T22:02:45+00:00

no, its about being horny. women don't have nearly as much testosterone, and so project their idea of sex as power onto men, particularly onto rapists. if prostitution was legal everywhere, actual rapes (not the bullshit buyers remorse version in colleges) would dramatically lower.

buttlollipop · 2015-08-31T01:59:01+00:00

One thing I'm not a fan of is how rape is all painted with the same brush. I'm not saying one type of rape is worse/better than another, but there's a huge difference in motivation when we're talking about a guy who rapes and abuses 95 year old women in nursing homes, and then frat boys who drug sorority girls. Both actions are really bad, but one is more sexually motivated whereas the other is more based on sadism.

wont_tell_i_refuse · 2015-08-31T06:39:20+00:00

Sex is about power. Ergo, rape is about power.

Rapey sex is the best sex there is, and that's because there is a power fantasy.

cantpleaseanyone · 2015-08-30T11:39:41+00:00

Hmmmmmmmmm...... I assume it must come from interviews with rapists. I think many people in society try and force higher order thinking into why people do things when the simplest explanation is that they cannot control their animal urges. A casual observation of the animal kingdom will show you how much nonstop rape there is(We can't really blame that on rape culture can we??) Have you guys seen what sea otters get up to

GagOnMyCock · 2015-08-30T12:10:20+00:00

Probably various things in various circumstance, including power in Bill Cosby's case.

In other cases, I'm sure rape is subconsciously about impregnations. Hard not to imagine back before civilization, rapists had an evolutionary advantage and that propensity (towards violence to get what you want) would carry on in their kids.

BlakeTheTank · 2015-08-30T12:31:12+00:00

I think so. I don't think "power" or "domination" are the first words that come to a rapists' mind when they're accused, but I think the cases of passed out guys or gals getting violated by a drunk and horny young adults are indeed about some kind of power move. Taking advantage of someone who aren't in a position to consent is an exercise of power the rapist didn't have before the victim was incapacitated.

abetterarsonist · 2015-08-30T13:41:22+00:00

I think in prison, especially during the 80s, rape was about power. In a culture where people know what others do and are not punished for it, it creates fear, and in certain prisons, to be feared is to be powerful, because you will be free from victimization where others aren't.

On the streets I don't understand how rape confers power. Rapists have to hide their crimes, and they need to exert energy & waste resources to fulfill their bizarre needs. I think it's a handicap. I just don't understand the relationship between sex & power in this context. If it doesn't tangibly benefit your life, how can it be about power? Maybe sometimes it's about revenge, but that's not powerful either.

edit: Actually, satisfying a desire for revenge may confer feelings of power, now that i think about it.

relationshipdownvote · 2015-08-30T14:44:51+00:00

So I was wondering if there is any real evidence that rape is about power or what people's general thoughts on this are.

There's some very strong evidence that rape is just about sexual gratification. For example, if you castrate an offender they are far less likely to repeat the crime. This shows that if you take away the drive for sex, the need to rape is drastically reduced.

I applaud you for recognizing the cognitive dissonance in the "rape is about power" bullshit narrative that is being pushed.

nomdplume · 2015-08-30T15:04:34+00:00

Sure, rape is about power. But so is sex, IMO, so that's not distinguishing much.

Per Oscar Wilde - "Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power."

MrsPound111 · 2015-08-30T11:39:46+00:00

Rape is about power and domination in my opinion. That's why when boys get defeated in video games, the victor claims he "raped" the other boy. Implying destroyed, often accompanied by the word domination. If it was about losing control sexually there'd be no rape threats and lesbians or gay men would be raping the same amount as straight men.

In saying that, there's always exceptions to the rule, but if you can't control yourself sexually, you should be locked away til you learn how. That stands for ALL rapists, women included.

susandeath · 2015-08-30T17:05:25+00:00

Rape is actually quite complex, there are many different reasons for it.

Yes rape can be about power, in for example war situations, particularly in Africa rape is used as power. Boys are raped as part of their training to become child soldiers. Women and children are raped or threatened with rape to make their husband/father do something.

Rape happens because the rapist was bored.

Some rape happens because "men always want sex".

Some rape happens because its not rape if I married her, or if I know her.

Some rape happens because of fear of a disease and the willingness to take any desperate action that will cure it, for example the persistent myth in Africa that sex with a virgin will cure aids.

Some rape happens because children are acting out what they have seen adults do.

Some rape happens because its the thing to do.

veyron3003 · 2015-08-30T18:39:46+00:00

Rape is about opportunity.

Title	Is rape about power
Author	yo_radical_one
Upvotes	2
Comments	59
Date	August 30, 2015 11:14 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3iy1wj/is_rape_about_power/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-rape-about-power.279933 https://theredarchive.com/post/279933

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