The Difference between TRP and RPW

TempestTcup · 2013-08-29T14:14:44+00:00

The way /r/RedPillWomen differs from /r/TheRedPill is that women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment, so RPW works toward...

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The consensus in TRP is get a vasectomy so she doesn't try to get pregnant to trap u by lying about taking birth control "OOPS!" is bullshit, cohabit, but don't marry.

Women are far too incentivised by the divorce system to basically ditch you and leave you with nothing. She'll defend that position while she loves you, but love is oft temporary with the feminine ruled by their emotion, if a better guy comes along you're fucked, win-win for her, lose-lose for you. She gets an upgrade (branch swings) and you have to pay out the ass for her. Whilst your life goes into serial downgrade and the money you've given her now makes it harder for you to get another woman and move on. It's clean for her, dirty for you.

I want a family, I'm not going to have a formalised legal contract that allows me to be divorce raped though. Might have a ceremony, but you won't catch me signing marriage papers. That's strategically stupid for a man, the feminists made it so.

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Hmmm, are these views that are held by genders (let's generalize that these unique gender preferences are prevelant) products of the nature of each gender, or things that are taught by societies?

What portion of this is a product of environment/culture and what portion is caused by genetics/the nature of each gender/ seems to be where people disagree.

I think that environment and culture play larger roles in causing behavior among genders. In my experience the differing views of people are shaped by their differing experiences (experiences that; teach them how to interact with the world). These styles of thinking propagate and evolve as society does.

I've met too many unique men and women to assume that all behave according to certain roles or that they should; however, I do recognize that in a broad sample many do.

[–]TehGinjaNinja 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think that environment and culture play larger roles in causing behavior among genders. In my experience the differing views of people are shaped by their differing experiences (experiences that; teach them how to interact with the world).

I wish that were true. Unfortunately, people's experiences of the world are filtered through their biases, and many of those biases seem to be a product of biology.

Environment and culture certainly play a role, but the strong influence of biology should not be underestimated for the sake of political correctness. Biologically based cognitive and behavioral biases are the only reasonable explanation for the norms of gendered conduct common to most cultures.

I've met too many unique men and women to assume that all behave according to certain roles or that they should; however, I do recognize that in a broad sample many do.

No doubt you have met many different sorts of people, but that's because biology expresses broad variations (along with statistical norms). Consider the transgendered; they will commonly assert that their gender identity is rooted somewhere deep within themselves and not something which can be changed (like an opinion or belief structure). As a result they go to the extreme resolution of surgery, rather than seeking some form of psycho-social realignment.

That the lived experience of individuals who have transitioned from one gender to another refutes the idea of gender as a purely social construct is very significant. It also explains why there is tension between feminists (and other PC proponents of gender equivalence) and the trans community.

Above you imply that "all" people "should" not conform to "certain roles" but that "many do". What you seem to be missing is that "many do "conform to "certain roles", because that is their nature and it brings them happiness.

Ideally, the many should be free to conform to those roles and the few should be free to express their own non-conformist nature. Unfortunately, at the insistence of the politically correct, we have demonized the way the many express their nature in the name of "liberating" the few.

This hostility to normative gendered conduct has produce increasing unhappiness among women and a growing social disengagement among men. Personally, I doubt that the current, politically-mandated hostility to gender norms is sustainable in the long run.

[–]B32DB08170 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I've met too many unique men and women to assume that all behave according to certain roles or that they should; however, I do recognize that in a broad sample many do.

The variation I was referring to was in behavior/tendencies associated with masculinity or femininity. I should have been more specific.

Above you imply that "all" people "should" not conform to "certain roles" but that "many do". What you seem to be missing is that "many do "conform to "certain roles", because that is their nature and it brings them happiness.

That is also not quite what I was trying to say. I had meant to imply was that I do not believe anyone ought to behave more or less like either gender. They don't have to, but they do. Again, I would be more apt to conclude that it's because of the life experiences they've had. Then again, I hold these beliefs because of what I have experienced in life.

[–]TehGinjaNinja 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The variation I was referring to was in behavior/tendencies associated with masculinity or femininity. I should have been more specific.

No, I understood that was your meaning, but there is no reason to assume those behaviors/tendencies are not biologically rooted, and a great deal of evidence suggesting they are.

I had meant to imply was that I do not believe anyone ought to behave more or less like either gender. They don't have to, but they do.

Then your beliefs are in conflict with the facts. They are compelled to behave that way by their natures. To suggest otherwise is as harmful and unreasonable as the idea that you can "pray away the gay".

I hold these beliefs because of what I have experienced in life.

No, you hold those beliefs because they serve to rationalize your innate biases. Your "experience" of the reality reflecting those false beliefs is largely a product of perceptual filters created by your biases.

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There is an interesting dynamic going on here before and after commitment:

TL;DR Summary: Before commitment happens, both the guy and the gal have a decent amount of power in the relationship, though whoever wants commitment is at a slight disadvantage.

After commitment, the guy is at a large disadvantage because he has no exit and is at the mercy of the gal for sex

Disclaimer: The ramblings that follow are based on my (limited) understanding of power dynamics in relationships. If both parties have a deep respect and love for each other, are very generous to each other, are willing to sacrifice for the relationship, etc., then much of this analysis may be irrelevant. The reason is that generous cooperation really messes with power dynamics and makes them less important (imo).

Also, the below are my opinions of course. I am not trying to present facts—just opinion. I may be very wrong in my judgments. Honestly speaking, I am very biased.

Before commitment, the romantic male-female dynamic has to do with sex and determining fitness for commitment. (Actually, the healthiest goal is to just have fun while together and do one's own thing while apart.)

As a guy, if you're in decent shape and know what's up, you can get sex a few times per month (or more) from different women. As a woman, you can get more sex than that. In other words, both men and women can find some modicum of sexual satiety without too much difficulty if they know how.

The penalty for a failed sexual relationship is fairly small. To be clear, by sexual relationship, I mean a relationship where there is not much commitment—the same two people have sex maybe only once ever, or even once every week or every few weeks, in which case it's casual, relaxed friendship.

If things don't work out, you shrug, feel sad for a bit, then keep looking (or perhaps you have multiple partners). At worst, you've lost sex for a bit, as well as the possibility of commitment from that individual.

Then there's commitment. Commitment refers to an exclusive relationship as well as marriage. Both situations are not terribly easy to leave—the former because of emotional attachment and comfort—the latter for all the same reasons as the former, plus financial reasons, and, most importantly, children.

After commitment happens, there is the potential for sex to be used as a weapon, usually by women. IMO, there are several reasons why I believe this:

For men, sex is generally a stronger compulsion—probably because we haven't been as sexually repressed as women by society. Generally speaking, I think women can live without sex better than men. Furthermore, women get more sexual validation throughout the day. When you have people checking you out or hitting on you several times a day, it makes a difference in your life. You may not think so, but compare this to men who are generally not appreciated sexually. Any validation men receive from foreigners usually comes after the guy puts effort into flirting and doesn't get rejected—which is not an option for a guy in a relationship. Thus, his only validation as a sexual being generally only comes from his girlfriend or wife. That's it.
Women have an easier time cheating because 1) they can find partners more easily, and 2) because society is slightly more forgiving of women cheating. I know that's controversial. I'll explain this viewpoint after I discuss some of the reasons why men and women cheat.

To be clear, I'm not saying society views cheating by women as a-OK—hardly anybody supports cheating. Rather, I'm saying that women are viewed by society as have more understandable reasons for cheating, and thus can be forgiven more easily by their peers. This is usually by laying blame on the guy, which is generally half-true. In reality, the blame lies with both parties, unless the cheater is a raging nymphomaniac with no self-control.

The reasons for cheating that a woman has include:

The guy is a total deadbeat.
He spends too much time doing his own thing (friends, video games, etc.)
He comes home and is emotionally distant because he's tired from work or whatever.
He's generally neglectful in small but significant ways. It's generally not intentional or malicious, but it's still neglect.
He is sexually not performing or is unexciting to you.

These are valid issues by the way, and they occur in many relationships that work and don't work.

Anyhow, the above reasons for cheating are implicitly known throughout society (imo), which means that when a woman cheats, it's easier for us to forgive her. Again, I'll explain this more in-depth in a little bit.

Guys have the same set of reasons for cheating, however society does not view them as valid excuses because society still views these reasons as being mostly the guy's fault. Again, this is only half-true. In reality, both parties ought to work together to solve any problems.

Girl is a deadbeat: You should engage more. Talk to her about things she likes, go dancing with her, cook with her, hike with her, encourage her to push herself, etc.
She spends too much time doing her own thing: Girls need time by themselves. And besides, consider yourself lucky that she gives you some space, right? Plan "Guy Time", or make an effort to involve yourself in what she enjoys.
She comes home and remains distant due to being tired from work or whatever: Give her massages, cook for her, do extra-nice things for her, pamper her, draw her a bath, just be with her and don't put on any pressure because, hey, she's tired.
She's generally neglectful: What are you doing to piss her off? Maybe you said something wrong. Buy her roses, take her out on nice dates like you used to, etc. Try to communicates your feeling more. Maybe she feels you're neglecting her.
She is not performing sexually: Welcome to married life. But seriously, try to communicate your feelings. Maybe counseling. You should also hit the gym to stay attractive. And might try viagra...

Many of the issues are viewed as the guy's fault. "You're in the doghouse now," is what happens when the man misbehaves and so has to sleep on the couch. It is uncommon for a guy to put his gal "in the doghouse."

In short, if a guy cheats on his SO, he's a total and utter douche-bag. If there are kids involved, then fuck that guy even more because she bore his children.

If a girl cheats, well what a freaking bitch, but was her SO treating her okay? I mean, you know how so many guys just don't pay any attention to their wives/girlfriends and are a total bore after awhile. And so many guys just eat and eat and watch TV and let themselves go! And he probably didn't help with the cooking, the kids, the cleaning, and who knows what else. Living with that man must've really been suffocating if she had to go out and cheat to feel some freedom and excitement. But, you know, it's good that she decided to divorce that man in the end. The cheating really was the first sign that she needed to get out of that relationship...

(To be clear, I am assuming the reasons a person has for cheating are 100% true—the SO might be negligent, unhelpful, uncommunicative, etc.. I am not saying that either party is fabricating any complaints. However, we can all agree that cheating is off the table—at least until significant effort has been made to rectify things at home.)

It is the above sentiments that make me feel cheating is easier for women—in part, because it's easier to find people to sleep with, in part because women can live without sex more easily, and in part because I believe society's standards make it easier for women to rationalize cheating to themselves and others and thus be forgiven.

As another example, think of the woman who finds her husband cheating. It is more acceptable that she retaliates by destroying his property than if the roles were reversed. She still goes to jail and she's still crazy, but there is a strong "He deserves it" mentality in society.

As a supporting anecdote: I saw a clip of a talk show where the women hosts were talking about a woman who cut off her guy's penis and put it in the blender. As I recall, the hosts' reactions included: "He probably cheated on her", laughter, and "You go girl".

Now, reverse the roles—the man finds his gal cheating, cuts off her clit and labia and puts them in a blender. If a guy so much as smirks, his career would be over, and rightly so. And anyway, no one would smirk because genital mutilation is just not funny.

Anyway, if cheating is easier for women, you now have a situation where the guy feels that he has to behave properly in the committed relationship if he wants sex. (His feelings may be paranoia, but feelings are still real.) If the guy misbehaves, he loses sex and may face divorce (and, depending on the situation, may lose a portion of his finances and family). If he cheats on his wife, he also faces divorce.

In other words, if it the commitment situation doesn't work, the guy often times gets screwed and is no shrug and walk away. Thus, the guy is at a great power disadvantage after committing.

Contrast the above with the pre-commitment situation, where both parties have more control over the situation. Whoever wants commitment is at a slight power disadvantage because ze has to get the other person to agree to commitment. Generally, it's the girl who is in this slightly disadvantaged position, though guys certainly experience this as well.

[–]tigolbittiez 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed on most of what you said, but I don't necessarily agree that women could get on better without sex than men. I think they are about equal, but the right generation/melting pot of men could last without sex entirely. Because they've never had it before. With the pressure on men to make the move and escalate it to sex, there are simply more men than women not having sex.

And at a certain point they don't necessarily understand what's so great about it and rationalize their inability to get some as sex isn't worth getting anyway. Just an observation I've had of some of the more bitter men out there, that I've actually seen on Reddit as well. I suppose there are certain women out there who are the same way. I have no evidence that this is fact or that this is a real thing. Like I said, just an observation!

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So very true. I recently broke up with my girlfriend. She never wanted to have sex anymore. I'm not a red piller persay but I sure as hell am not stupid. I know her well, and damn well knew her sex drive didnt just vanish. Nope it was just being fulfilled somewhere else. It's funny because I know for a fact that ultimately while she made some questionable choices...I was the nexus of our relationships failure.

A combination of baggage from a previous girl as well as my own infidelity sort of rotted the damn foundation way to early. I'm certain however if I would have just fucking manned up and stopped my pathetic descent into a whiney useless shadow of who I was when she met me things could have turned out differently.

I'm so conflicted right now. I'm a bit sad but know its for the best. How could I expect a woman to respect me when I wasn't respecting myself? Ah well, every fuck up is simply a lesson for the future if you don't get bogged down in the bullcrap.

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did you read the welcome message?

"sexism" is a content-free, cultural marxist neologism used for the sole purpose of denying non social constructivist, aka natural, concepts of sex differences. it has no meaning to anyone but leftists, feminists and other social constructivists. i reject the concept out of hand. but to those who consider it a legitimate concept, i am considered a sexist.

we are "sexist" to the type of person who thinks the term describes an aspect of reality because we believe inn inherent biological sex differences that describe the bulk of the human population, with of course trends toward outlier on either side. we base our opinions on thebulk of the population of each sex, not on its weird outliers. outliers and people outside the norm offer no useful information on how the bulk of humans can interact successfully, other than as the exceptions that prove rules. if you dont believe this then thats fine, but your fundamental 1st premises regarding human sexuality are simply not accepted by what this sub stands for and have been repeatedly analyzed and rejected by all of us to the point that seeing them repeated again and again and again and again in the exact same words becomes like a far side cartoon in its absurdity

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I greatly enjoy the redpill and try to use the information found there as best I can. I also love the perspective you have here, as I just couldn't figure out the in-congruence of what women needed and wanted. However, I really am a believer in that all people are capable of all things and am especially frustrated when something that could benefit society at large is overlooked because of sexism, racism, or really any non-rational reason. I'm not doing this to be snarky but this xkcd comic mentions the examples that I would be looking up to show what it is that I'm opposed to.

I'm just not a conventionalist. Now, thanks to redpillers like you, instead of wondering why everyone isn't like me I instead can begin to see the societal dynamics that affect myself and other unconventional people. However, I am still frustrated against biases against women in STEM and against men in household duties. It might go against conventional biology, but some of us just aren't conventional. Maybe it's not red pill of me, but I want women and their accomplishments to be recognized in science, medicine, engineering and whatever. I believe in the long term that will probably benefit me.

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Title	The Difference between TRP and RPW
Author	TempestTcup
Upvotes	195
Comments	113
Date	August 29, 2013 2:14 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1lbxo6/the_difference_between_trp_and_rpw/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/the-difference-between-trp-and-rpw.83967 https://theredarchive.com/post/83967

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