Ungrateful - An Update

Wife_and_Mama · 2023-05-08T14:08:07+00:00

Stop wasting your life with a man who hasn't proposed in seven years.

tambourine_goddess · 2023-05-08T14:58:14+00:00

You've literally taken away ANY power you have in this situation. You're playing wife to someone who won't propose. And why would he? By your actions, you've said you're accepting of whatever he deems fit to give you. He absolutely feels entitled, and if you aren't willing to leave this situation, you will always be right exactly here.

RatchedAngle · 2023-05-08T14:24:08+00:00

Never perform wife duties for a man who hasn’t put a ring on your finger. That’s probably the reason why he feels so entitled.

StrangestUnicorn · 2023-05-08T16:51:13+00:00

I accused you of covert contracts in your first post, I'm afraid I'll have to do this again.

First of all, I do not have nearly enough information to give any legitimate advice, so I'm playing devil's advocate here, not because I think it is the right position to take, but because this discussion would be much more useful than just saying "he is wrong!".

I have a strong feeling there has been a very noticeable deterioration in your relationship in the past 6 months, going from you being optimistic about marriage, to now whatever this is. You have mentioned that him "forgetting" your birthday is both highly unusual, and feels deliberate. After 7 birthdays together, it is too premature to just label him a bad person, without trying to understand why this change took place. It is vital to investigate why.

Again, I do not have enough information to be certain in my reasoning, but my hypothesis centers on two factors:

Covert contracts
Problems vs Solutions

Specifically, how these two relate to the subject of proposal and marriage. I suspect that how you handled this subject has deteriorated some of the foundation of your relationship.

I. Covert contracts

A very relevant concept that is very often discussed in marriedredpill, and almost never here at RPW, are covert contracts. To put it simply: Intentions behind your actions matter much more than the actions themselves.

One of the causes of change in your relationship has been his changing belief in the motives behind the support that you provide. Throughout your relationship he believed that you supported him because you love and care about him. And it is this belief that generates gratitude, strengthens relationships and motivates men to reciprocate and make their relationships permanent. However, in the last 6 months, this belief has been challenged.

It is very similar to a common narrative in marriedredpill of men stuck in dead bedrooms who start the so-called "chore play" as a way to get their wives to have sex with them. And it rarely works, not because doing more chores or being more affectionate is "bad", but because intentions matter more than the actions themselves. So their wives, instead of feeling grateful, loved, and cared for, end up feeling pressured and manipulated into more "duty sex".

Your SO started to feel the same manipulation, that you are engaging in "chore play", and that your support is not an expression of love, but a barter for an engagement ring.

From what you told us, two of your actions caused this change in beliefs:

Withholding support.

The free mink vs buying cow thing. In your first post you said you stopped providing some of your usual support as a retaliation for him not proposing within the timelines you hoped he would.

Your own words and attitude.

He did not consider my „wifely Support“ worthy of being mentioned. I told him that even though it would have been the cent thing to do - even more since we are not yet even engaged!!!

Do you refer to the support you provide as "wifely Support"? Do you mention "even more since we are not yet even engaged" often? This kind of attitude screams "I do not want to provide this support, and I am not supposed to provide this support, but I'm only doing this as a favor I expect you to pay back".

The fact that he no longer feels gratitude for the support you provide is very telling of the fact that he no longer believes that your intentions are benign.

II. Problems vs Solutions

The second factor in the change of your relationship, is your motives for the timing of the marriage. This is something I wish I brought up in your first post.

One of the concepts in RPW is "Bring him your problem, not your solution".

You had a problem, which was the last name you would use in your academic career. A very valid concern to have. However, instead of bringing him this problem, you brought him your solution "I need you to propose to me in December, so that we can start marriage planning in January, and get married before I have to register for my PhD". And you brought this up frequently enough that he told you to "stop asking".

People, generally, do not respond well, when they are told what to do, especially men, and especially with marriage. In your first post, you have mentioned nothing about his thoughts about your last name concerns, which implies you have never really discussed it all that much. His only response you have mentioned was to "stop asking" about marriage, which is very expected and predictable for someone in his situation.

To finish this off, I know I'm harsh and make many assumptions and place undue responsibility on your shoulders. I know this situation is not as one-sided as I make it sound, my only intention is to avoid the easy answers of simply criticizing your SO, and I encourage you to correct me wherever I am wrong.

RedPillDad · 2023-05-08T22:19:04+00:00

Entitled Girl: acts like a spoiled princess, expects to be catered to, no appreciation.
Entitled Boy: acts like a spoiled prince, expects to be catered to, no appreciation.

I used boy & girl because they haven't grown up out of their selfish child stage.

Once a dynamic is established in a relationship, it doesn't tend to shift much. Maybe he can grow up with someone else, but he's already locked to this behavior with you.

Cosima_Fan_Tutte · 2023-05-08T15:08:35+00:00

I only had a chance to skim the post you deleted, so maybe I'm missing some details, but...some men are just inherently more selfish, self-interested and less likely to reciprocate. Or, the man's SMV is higher than the woman's, so he can inspire doting treatment without putting in too much effort in return. Sure, you can communicate your needs and wants, but it'll have to be a lifelong, sustained communication effort that may have inconsistent results.

The reason for being with a man like this is generally his brilliance, or sexual charisma or charm or status in an field you value. Whatever the reason, he has to be awesome in your eyes. Or maybe there's a practical reason, like he can provide a lifestyle you want.

I don't think this is a girlfriend vs wife duty thing, btw. Plenty of men show gratitude to girlfriends. It's probably a him thing. Whether it's something you want to deal with is up to you.

StrengthMaleficent28 · 2023-05-08T23:48:25+00:00

Some language you've used to describe your situation have given me thought... You've used the language "ungrateful", "wifely support worthy of being mentioned".

I want to ask you whether you are doing nurturing things to receive praise and attention, or out of the goodness of your heart and because you genuinely want to care for him? Your language implies it's attention seeking behaviour and you want recognition for it. In fact, your discussion with him as you've detailed explains you are demanding recognition from him.

The true gift of love is caring and nurturing someone without any expectation of recognition. We do it silently, discreetly, and without complaint. We don't call attention to it. We don't expect recognition. If recognition is received, we're likely embarrassed by it because that isn't the intent of our actions.

In response to another Redditors comments, you've said you're doing all these things out of love - but if it was love, why are you demanding recognition?

Does he regularly not give you recognition for the things you do, and, do you get upset when this happens? Do you feel entitled to praise?

Yes, it's disappointing he hasn't recognised your birthday and you must feel very hurt but I wonder if he feels a need to "punish" the attention seeking behaviour? I'm not condoning that approach from him, if it's his approach at all, but I do wonder if he is trying to gain control over the relationship in some way and trying to curtail your demanding behaviour. Your post reads as though you've done something nice for him with the expectation he recognise it, and when he hasn't recognised the nice thing, you become upset and withdraw your love. It's a bit like emotional blackmail and would mean you're expecting a transactional relationship from him.

AutoModerator · 2023-05-08T14:04:00+00:00

Title: Ungrateful - An Update

Full text: With a heavy heart I asked my SO to talk about yesterday. He did not consider my „wifely Support“ worthy of being mentioned. I told him that even though it would have been the cent thing to do - even more since we are not yet even engaged!!! And for him to omit my birthday is also highly unusual. He retorted that I had stolen his spotlight by demanding to celebrate my birthday. and would I please mind his cats while he is off with his buddies…

No, I will not do anymore wifely things. He can either let his parents care for his cats or hire someone. I will not do anymore for his Ungratefullness.

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Title	Ungrateful - An Update
Author	Such_Beginning_1629
Upvotes	28
Comments	14
Date	May 8, 2023 2:03 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/13bqjke/ungrateful_an_update/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/ungrateful-an-update.1218697 https://theredarchive.com/post/1218697

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