Men's Rights vs. TRP

2chronicles34 · 2014-07-23T12:10:06+00:00

I think you're right. But let's not kid ourselves, laws and policy matter. Your red pill is not going to taste so well if you're on the wrong side of a restraining order, sexual harassment charge, or affirmative action quota set aside. Men are under attack in this country. By the media. By the courts. By employers. We all know it. Yes, MRA's are fighting the battle for the wrong reasons. But they're still fighting the battle. Do you know of any Red Pill people that are doing anything like A Voice For Men. Trying to organize to fight? The manosphere has contrasting perspectives and theories, BUT THE SAME ENEMIES. We should not waste time criticizing MRAs. They are a huge improvement over the feminists who hate US ALL.

bam2_89 · 2014-07-23T10:19:41+00:00

I posted about this five months ago and I'm surprised that this doesn't come up more often.

The movement has a few worthwhile goals like the end of childhood circumcision and a reigning in of the judicial pussy pass, but men can't expect change by acting like women (read: victims) because it goes against our primal nature to do so and the primal nature of women to relate to it. Our weakness is the illusion of strength; women's strength is the illusion of weakness.

I'm conflicted about how to handle "men's rights." Of course we can't play the role of victims, but do we insist on pure equality and the elimination of double standards or do we embrace traditional gender roles? I lean toward the latter because female accountability is about as likely as convincing male victimhood. A platform which denies biological reality is doomed.

anonlymouse · 2014-07-23T15:18:10+00:00

A couple things, a lot of MRAs are ex-feminists, who realised feminism doesn't deliver what it claims to. They're not going to change their base ideology about equality, because as far as they're concerned, that's actually a good goal (and why not, true equality isn't something to scoff at).

MRAs aren't doing that much in the way of begging right now. They're raising awareness about how men are affected as well, and the feminists are attacking them because they know that if people understand issues affect men too, that they'll be weak. They need exclusive victimhood, and whether you think the MRM is pathetic or not, taking away that exclusive victimhood will strike a severe blow at feminism's heart.

Nemester · 2014-07-23T15:29:16+00:00

The main difference between men's rights and the red pill is that the red pill accepts that men and women aren't the same or equal. That is, a rejection of egalitarianism(see /r/darkenlightenment). Not being equal implies that they should not be treated the same.

Perhaps women's suffrage was a mistake. Perhaps pushing women into careers was a mistake.

PIBagent · 2014-07-24T13:36:53+00:00

MRA provide some very good facts to counter the whole "feminism helps men" bullshit that goes around now days. Even on this board we occasionally get some woman spouting off this tired cliche. It's very satisfying shutting them down with a few well placed facts courtesy of the MRA's.

anonlymouse · 2014-07-23T11:26:24+00:00

The average user over at mensrights cares more about "tearing down gender roles" (Read: convincing women that effeminate men are sexy) than he does about ending male genital mutilation or prison rape.

Old_Pine_Tree · 2014-07-23T16:03:41+00:00

Men's' rights activists have learned that they can effect an appreciable change by co-opting the tactics and methods of feminism. Examples include, but are limited to cherry-picking statistics, adopting victimhood, and promoting rhetorical indignation. After a solid generation of feminism, there is an untapped segment among men who are primed and especially receptive to this approach, which is actually quite hilarious in that we are witnessing an aspect of feminism that will cannibalize itself in the coming decades.

(Do feminists really think that when the scales tip in their favour that hundreds of millions of whiny men who have been raised by victims to be victims will refrain from bitching and moaning about their oppression? Oh, the naïveté.)

The good news for Redpillers is that this will create a strong social space in which to exist, and they will enjoy some of the gains made by the MRM (e.g. male abortion/paternity insurance/universal child supplement). It's also likely the the MRM will spur a reaction in men to once more promote more masculine pursuits (e.g. those that involve risk-seeking as opposed to safety-obsession), and a reaction in women to consciously seek 'manly' men as opposed to emotional manlets who exhibit extreme hypersensitivity.

Cyralea · 2014-07-23T15:03:34+00:00

I think that MRA's serve a purpose in that they raise awareness. Videos like the one about domestic abuse go viral, get people talking. Over time their existence is probably a net benefit to men.

That said, the vast majority of that sub seems to be simply taking the feminist approach of complaining about everything and playing the victim. Far too much "woe is me" and too little "Here's how I beat the odds".

Women talk, men do. It's not masculine at all to sit around all day complaining.

Enphuego · 2014-07-23T19:27:25+00:00

This is one place where I completely disagree with most people in TRP. Having a complaint is not a sign of weakness and should not be treated as such. Men should be able to express their dissatisfaction without being emasculated by women, much less other men. We may all need to put on masks of quiet strength in society, but I don't see why there's no place for just letting down the pretenses at times.

If you look at the feminism movement, it was rather effective for righting some societal wrongs and has indeed made a difference. It didn't take every woman signing up as a feminist to put things on a political agenda. On the other hand, bitching about things that are never going to change is just pointless. To the extent that the MRA movement has actionable goals and manages to make progress, I'd support it.

They've already made some progress on bringing issues of child custody, male rape (especially in jail) and the flawed child support system to mainstream attention. I'm not going to waste my energy following every movement of the MRA movement, but if there is something actionable I'd be supportive.

niczar · 2014-07-23T20:45:30+00:00

"God given rights"? Poseidon hasn't given me any rights.

LasherDeviance · 2014-07-23T23:31:36+00:00

My take: The MRA that speak on real issues that should be tackled, such as Child Support disparity and the issue of being forced into paying for a child that isn't your own, just because you were with the mother for a period and the court deems you a parent, because she is vindictive/scandalous enough to sic the courts on you because you didn't want to deal with her shit anymore... I completely understand that.

Or in the case of granting custodial rights, I'm with them there as well.

Or in domestic abuse cases.

But as I say often in the MRA sub when TRP is bashed, "If you guys practiced some of the things that we talk about in TRP, you wouldn't have half of the problems that you do."

Most of the problems that MRA's have are because of how their manhood is perceived by the women that they feel persecuted by.

Some of the stories they tell are pathetic.

"My wife hasn't slept with me in six months, now she wants a divorce." Not to sound cliche but, I'm like, "Bro, do you even lift?"

Taking charge is also a thing. I have two women currently, both RP as they both read this sub and will see this. If we are at the store, both of them will look at the candy/snack aisle. "Ooh! Let's get some Riesen!" Because they know I like Riesen. I stop them and say, "No. Now bring your ass on here, let's go." They do like I say, with me showing my dominance, and I surprise them later with a pack of candy later. Pavlovian training at its best. So they both know nit to go buy fatty sweets when I'm not around.

With a woman, it's not about control, it's about setting the parameters in your favor so that they can control themselves.

That's what I think a lot of MRAs have a problem with.

CaptainFalconer · 2014-07-23T14:41:58+00:00

Men's rights says the world is unfair to men, and so the world needs to change.

TRP says the world is unfair to men, and so the individual man needs to change.

TRP takes personal responsibility, and does something about it.

MRA just complains, and feels self pity in inaction.

Jooceyjooce · 2014-07-23T17:03:19+00:00

The men's rights forum is a bunch of feminists with dicks. I got banned from there a long time ago.

Title	Men's Rights vs. TRP
Author	The_BitterTruth
Upvotes	25
Comments	74
Date	July 23, 2014 9:04 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2bhaub/mens_rights_vs_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/mens-rights-vs-trp.18296 https://theredarchive.com/post/18296

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