On Having Children

cagethepepper · 2015-05-29T08:20:37+00:00

Genes are selfish. They don't give a fuck about you.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-05-29T01:17:53+00:00

This is where Roosh essentially "split" from Red Pill.

Yes, there is an aspect of Red Pill that is about understanding women enough to Game them into sex, but that's contradicted by a strong negative reaction to Marriage 2.0 and the potential of Divorce Rape.

Things are bad... really bad... in the Western world. Fertility is Negative.

The Misandry Bubble is like our version of the Book of Revelation in that it predicts the coming collapse of this nightmare.

How do we react?

Some say Enjoy the Decline, Spin Plates, do crazy stuff that will potentially get you on future episodes of the Jerry Springer Show. IDGAF.

Others try to use Red Pill wisdom to make a bad situation tolerable. Maybe don't marry, but have kids anyway in a LTR. That way your losses are reduced potentially.

Things like DarkEnlightenment and Neoreaction exist on other subs and other websites and they tend to be more Darwinistic and tribal. (family survival, cultural restoration, history, etc)

I can't link you to DarkEnlightenment (reddit seems to ban it now) but you should look there.

There is also a RedPillParenting sub you can check out.

RedHeimdall · 2015-05-29T09:35:29+00:00

Yes this is also an important topic for me and an area where I still have a lot of figuring things out to do. I always planned to get married and have kids at some point, as people do. After I found TRP, I started second-guessing marriage a bit, but thought I'd probably still give it a try and hope to make it work.

At this point, I am now thinking I will never get married. The risks are so high and the reward, questionable. BUT I have a problem in that I still definitely want to have kids; that is mandatory for me and I won't be changing my mind on that.

I have heard different ideas about how to have kids as a red pill aware man, but it usually comes from one of two camps: 1. theoretical ideas from guys who have no experience in (or even personal interest in) having kids (no skin in the game), or 2. practical advice but from guys who sort of stumbled into a bad or mediocre committed situation and are now just trying to make the best of it.

I'd love to hear from someone who was TRP aware before tackling this challenge. Or from others like me who are free of commitments, and want kids, but see Marriage 2.0 as what it is.

Shiningknight12 · 2015-05-29T02:28:25+00:00

Feel free to share your thoughts on what it means to be a Red Pill man that wants to have children with an ideal mate, and raise them properly.

AWALT is true, but that doesn't mean women are identical. They all shit test, but not all of them are going cheat or fall for the first guy who is slightly more alpha than you. The corollary to this is some women will make terrible partners know matter how good your married game is.
Dread game works differently in these relationships. You don't want to dread game infidelity and dread gaming divorce should only happen in extreme scenarios. For the most part, your "dread game" is going to be not giving emotional validation to her when she behaves poorly. IE, if she gets in a bad mood and starts nagging, you leave and go do something else.
This one is controversial, but don't marry. At best, marriage provides moderate social pressure to stay together, but it weakens your bargaining position by giving her a lot of your wealth. Alimony and splitting money down the middle makes a breakup look much more appealing.

There is lots more, but those provide basics. This blog does a good job with it.

http://marriedmansexlife.com/

yummyluckycharms · 2015-05-29T14:07:22+00:00

Its been stated before....you dont need to get married to have kids. Plenty of men are going the surrogate route and having kids that they can then take back home.

The trickiest part is not having the kid, but the support network that it needs (ie. babysitters, care givers, etc) My friend who went the surrogate route keeps having to overpay for nannies since the TFW program fell under scrutiny

C00l_Guy · 2015-05-29T04:58:28+00:00

A strong traditional family unit is the cornerstone of all civilized societies.

Families that have strong male fathers and feminine mothers will have children that are winners adding in RP knowledge to this and you are going to get a lineage worthy of respect and honour.

I am making a bold statement in saying that those who are against siring a family are only having this 'opinion' because they themselves are damaged goods from broken homes and dysfunctional families.

CowardlyPetrov · 2015-05-29T02:54:54+00:00

If we are being completely amoral in this discussion and stating that the end game goal is to simply pass on your genes, then is not perfecting this supposed sexual plating thing exactly the most effective way to achieve it?

Assuming you just want your genes out there and you've met victory conditions, so after that you don't care, then wouldn't it be best to just be having as many bastard children as you can under false pretenses and then moving on to a new location to start another batch?

That isn't my goal. And I do agree that there appears to be something missing from popular discussions that is important to me and that I think about (family & children), but I don't think the stuff here is useless for what you may want to do. You don't HAVE to use these skills to plate a bunch of women. The point of plates, I think, is to practice. Or at least that can be the point depending on your end game.

For me, I want to figure this shit out so later I can find a girl who was well kept by her father and I can pick her up from there and keep her well myself. The "unicorn" so to speak, but the lesson to learn is that she is not a unicorn. She is water. It is my job to hold her in shape.

papirojo · 2015-05-29T10:32:31+00:00

So what if your genes are eliminated? It seems as if you want to leave a legacy through your children. Do you bro. But, what if you got hit by a bus tomorrow morning? Your genes aren't going anywhere. Who is to say your kids won't be degenerates and tarnish the legacy you hoped to create. Further, who is to say your kids will even make it far enough to reproduce on their own and pass on your genes? And your potential baby dispenser, if you find out she can't have kids then what?

The idea of leaving a legacy through your children is an ego issue to me. There are infinite ways to leave a legacy through other things that you are capable of creating. Things you can actually be sure that will positively contribute to society. Even so, while they may contribute to society for the time being, your creation will likely be forgotten and so will you.

There is nothing special about sticking your dick in a chick, blowing your load, and her shitting out a kid. It is one of the most basic things we can do. Neanderthals figured it out, animals figured it out, and billions of other people figured it out, none percent of which are remembered.

If you want kids, do you. If you don't want kids, do you. But don't let continuing your genes be the deciding factor.

herps · 2015-05-29T04:02:58+00:00

The Red Pills advice begins to break down once you get past the plate stage. LTRs, Marriage, and Children are all anathema to the Red Pill philosophy. They mean the male must give up some power in the relationship or will be committed to giving up time and resources. I also think the demographics of this sub are weighted towards young men in their 20s so naturally marriage/kids are not something the majority of them have experience with.

Don't get me wrong, I find a lot of advise on this sub useful for improving yourself and maintaining a healthy relationships. But if you are looking to go past LTR into marriage or to have kids you are not a hardcore Red Pill'er and need to look elsewhere for advise.

operibus_anteirex · 2015-05-29T07:15:18+00:00

It's utterly essential for redpilled men to raise happy and healthy families. Without children being raised in stable, traditional environments, humanity is completely fucked. If this doesn't concern you, then don't have children. I personally do care about the future of the human race, and am doing everything possible to make sure my children are in a position to be happy, successful, and influential. Besides, where would my wealth go when I'm gone? Everything I've built? Even if I didn't want everything I've earned to go to waste, I was raised to be proud of my family. I wouldn't want to be the end of my line, what a tragedy that would be. Children, especially boys, need to have familial pride & loyalty instilled in them from a young age. Parents don't do this anymore.

Yes, there is a risk involved, but there are ways to minimize the risk drastically.

Virgin. I know, I know, AWALT. But statistics don't lie. Virgin brides are significantly less likely to take your ass to court. Virgin, or no go.
She must be lower value than you. Your wife should never have higher SMV than you.
She must be utterly dependent on you. From her parents house, to yours.
As young as possible. While men are the romantic sex, younger women are also very romantic. Being her first partner will ingrain you in her heart & brain for her lifetime. They lose the romantic spark after they get plowed by 50 guys in college. Not to mention younger women are simply superior in every way that matters.

At the end of the day, there is always risk. But RP men take risks.

If you don't give a shit where your legacy ends up, or have no interest in humanity as a whole, and if you really don't care about being the one to fuck up the family line (To me this seems highly unnatural. Which is strange seeing on TRP considering everyone is very much into using biology & evolution to explain.. Well, everything), then by all means don't have children.

TL;DR

RP men are more likely to be successful, high IQ, and in a position to raise a happy & healthy family. RP men should raise families lest the whole world collapse.

knitro · 2015-05-29T02:24:20+00:00

To be frank, you have a surface understanding and need to read and learn and absorb more, then things would be so simple to you and you'd be less inclined to pen this 'gotcha' post.

Rollo wrote about this, but TRP isn't prescriptive, it's preventative. It's about laying bare the realities of the world. No one can tell you that you should or shouldn't do anything, all we can offer is the truth reality reinforces. Marriage can work, but its a far riskier proposition than most men realize.

If kids are your end game, and they're undeniably the biologically driven one, trp offers you info to:

a. choose a great partner

b. hold frame to maintain a happy relationship

c. warning signs of problems

d. the reality of what happens when things go wrong

Equipped with this, it ultimately comes down to a value proposition: Biological persistence and best possible environment vs. whole host of reasons marriage is a losing bet in it's current incarnation. Even if you do everything to trp perfection, it can still fail - that's life.

You'll always have skin in the game with children, and trp doesn't offer the 'answer'. It's not suppose to. It does offer you as close to perfect information as you can get, and that's a helluva lot more than most things can.

redpillbanana · 2015-05-29T12:10:06+00:00

Just a few things to note when thinking about passing on your genes:

If any of your relatives have kids, then a portion of your genes have been passed on. It is difficult for genetic tests to tell the difference between genes from a grandfather, uncle, or half-sibling, for example.

Also, Richard Dawkins stated that even if Queen Elizabeth II is a direct descendant of William the Conqueror, it is improbable that she has even one of his specific genes. (The lineage has been called into question recently.)

plentyoffishes · 2015-05-29T15:09:09+00:00

Anyone that doesn't have children is eliminated from the gene pool. All of the unique mutations and genetics that you carry will die when you die and be removed from the human race.

And I say, who the fuck cares? When you're dead, you're dead. Having children doesn't make you immortal. For 99.9% of us, nobody will remember us in 100 years. I for one have no interest in passing down my genes. Your kids are not you, even though they may resemble you and even do some things similar to you.

TimeHoTraveler · 2015-05-29T18:43:20+00:00

Legacy? What the fuck is this legacy talk? Since when is having kids in and of itself an accomplishment?

In this era of baby mamas are we now looking up to any man who sires children?

Think about any historical figure you personally admire. Think about any man you envy or adore so much that you would trade lives with him.

Do you admire these people for what they accomplished or who they are/were, or because they knocked someone up?

Dr_HoaxArthurWilmoth · 2015-05-29T03:24:12+00:00

Are you trying to subtlety shame men who do not want and don't care if they have children?

Go find your "Ideal" aka Unicorn mate, shit out some kids, and lie to yourself that your genes and ideals have been passed on. You are guaranteed neither jack nor shit that your brood will become anything worthwhile. If that's all you think your can contribute, cell division, to the world, maybe you should keep your dick in your pants.

Rise above your petty biological beliefs, overcome, unplug. But don't name yourself "Freethinker34" and come to me for validation.

wasthereadogwithyou · 2015-05-31T16:40:03+00:00

I know what you mean, but honestly, at this point, it just seems cruel to bring a child into this world, even if you are a very good parent. Male or female, feminist laws and indoctrination hurts everyone, and it hurts them a great deal more than most of us realize. I can only imagine how much worse the indoctrination will be in 18 years.

juanqunt · 2015-05-29T05:32:38+00:00

I am very interested in this topic and have thought quite a bit about the diversification of my genetic investments. I believe that I have great genes, I know a lot about nutrition, I can be a pretty charismatic teacher, and kids love me.

I've thought of several strategies:

Basic requirements for all methods

The woman must follow my diet guidelines during the pregnancy and during at least 6 months of breastfeeding. Absolutely no alcohol or smoking and no more than 50mg caffeine (ideally none) per day, and a list of approved foods low in heavy metals and rich in protein and healthy fats.

I must have the time to properly mentor the child for at least the first 5 years of his/her life. Non-violent parenting while firmly establishing myself as main authority figure in the child's life, and drilling 48 laws of power lessons into his/her nature, as well as promoting good habits and work ethics while promoting creativity and establishing high self compassion (see Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane for self confidence vs esteem vs compassion). Why first 5 years? Because these years are most critical for the life log development of and individual. If a child is emotionally stable and has a headstart during these 5 years, they usually maintain this advantage for his/her whole life. 80/20 rule at play here. Well, technically more like spending 5 out of 18+ years for 90%+ of benefits.

Method 1

Serial monogamy while keeping earnings hidden. I have not found an ideal solution yet, but there should be methods to keep a significant portion of my income hidden. Then I would establish solid monogamous LTRs for 6-10 years at a time and moving on once the child(ren) reached my target level of proficiency. Then I repeat this cycle. I should be able to pull off maybe 3 sets of quality children with this method.

Method 2

World traveler. Impregnate a different girl in several different countries and make sure that they never find out about each other. If you are a master seducer, the quantity return would be extremely high. The downsides are that this is extremely hard to pull off and one mistake could lead to all sorts of problems. Also, high potential for cheating is high, since you would be juggling several women at a time and it would be harder to establish yourself as the mean male authority in the children’s lives. There will also be quality control issues. A woman who’d be willing to have a child with a man who’s always away would probably cheat, both on the diet and with other men.

Method 3

Paid surrogates. This method will cost you probably well over a million per child over the course of 18 years, high costs for egg donor, surrogate mother, and salaries of various caretaker assistants for many years. Highly dependent on future expected earnings. Anyone who’s doing reasonably well and investing should be able to easily raise one child who’s almost guaranteed to be successful this way, but quantity of returns is uncertain. You may want to raise the children somewhere with low costs of living and labor costs, but the downside is that your own earnings could also greatly decrease as a result.

reddit_sucks2 · 2015-05-29T04:12:22+00:00

Get this garbage post the fuck off the red pill. Go join some fathers to be support group and circle jerk about passing your genes and morals and shit elsewhere.

Title	On Having Children
Author	freethinker34
Upvotes	41
Comments	57
Date	May 29, 2015 12:51 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/37nwf5/on_having_children/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/on-having-children.33043 https://theredarchive.com/post/33043

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