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[–]TRP_ 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
This should be the first type of shit test you learn, and your response is perfect. This shit test is so loaded and in her mind you only have 2 options, both of which place you as a beta.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
"game" is part of being a quality individual. You have to be able to see through people's bullshit manipulation, most people can't do this naturally, and learning the game will teach it to you. You telling others to kick girls out of their life if they play mind games is like a super hot girl telling her ugly friends to just be more confident and they'll get approached by guys. You have money and social status, you have an abundance of women; the rules aren't the same for you.
[–]3Ill_mumble_that 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You have money and social status, you have an abundance of women; the rules aren't the same for you.
Behave as if you have money and social status, you will attract more of the same. Fake it till you make it. Game certainly helps with this.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Behave as if you have money and social status and people will think you're an arrogant jerk off. The only way to act like you have either of those is to actually have them. Game breeds confidence that can lead to social status but if you enter a new social circle and act like the AMOG with nothing to back it up but confidence then you will be shunned.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Some people are natural born alphas and these people are not aware of the psychology behind why their personality attracts the opposite sex. Other people are born betas and these people also aren't aware of why their personality doesn't attract the opposite sex. Betas can discover game and do routines and make people think they're an alpha but really they're just following guidelines and they have to figure out what works for them. From here they can "fake it till they make it" and I can say that eventually you can make it. I used to study gaming a LOT, online forums, daily challenges, reading pickup artist books, reading psychology and sociology books. Eventually I just "got it". When I'm in a room of people I feel like I'm looking down on every conversation from a mountaintop, I can hear all the interactions and read their body language and I know what the people are thinking probably more than they themselves do. I stopped doing the seduction game thing and while I don't get laid a much as I used to, I'm a much better quality person than I used to be. It all started with "gaming".
Also, I'm in my mid twenties, you're 56; our goals are different. I want to get wasted with my friends while talking shit to some hot bimbo who I will bang at the end of the night.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
At 16 I was running a high end custom car shop, big deal. Now I'm an engineer for a large aerospace fabrication company because I didn't want that kind of complication in my life. Money and power aren't the standards I choose to set myself to, even though I'm meeting my quota in those areas, so to speak.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Your mid twenties are a great time in your life. Why spend them working more than I need to when I'm going to be making a lot more in the future? Of course that's making a gamble that my salary will go up, but that's a chance I'm willing to take given the field I've gotten myself into. Have you ever hit "auto-pilot" or "pause" on your career to go live? I'm thinking about quitting my job for a year or so after I save up some money and rent my house out so I can backpack around Europe and Australia. I can tell you're actually a wise man, which is why I'm asking.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]jmottram08 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
I think this is a much better frame of mind for a response.
Not everything is a shit test, people care about their appearance and sometimes generally want help improving it.
Yes, in general it's a touchy subject, but sometimes women want actual responses and truth rather than "alpha" witticisms... especially inside of a relationship.
Or, put another way, the "alpha" response could be a simple, honest yes or no. If the response to the "yes" answer is garbage, then resort to a canned "Don't be insecure, it's not an attractive trait." response. Eventually she will stop asking you, or understand that you actually speak your mind, and honestly ask the question.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]jmottram08 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It appears that many people here don't have adult relationships, and that would explain their need to see this as a manipulative game.
You are the one that measured your self worth by the number of threesomes you have had.
Maybe "adult relationships" means something different to you than me.
[–]veggie_girl 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You sir are correct and the above posters should learn from you rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.
[–]Smaugma1 points 12 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
If they are testing you, you failed.
I have always thought this. You should aim to reach the point where testing you would become absurd, because your alphaness, whatever that means in that particular context, is not questioned at all. She either submits or doesn't engage. Would a woman shit-test Tom Cruise? Arnold Schwarznegger? Prince William? A rockstar? A captain of industry? Unlikely.
[–]Cruising74 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not initially- see the recent post about JFK. With familiarity most women will start testing, to see what they can get away with. How many guys go beta once they're in a LTR?
[–]3Ill_mumble_that 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why is this crock of shit comment upvoted 27 times?
If a girl asks you for a compliment, you do not give her one. If she seriously needs to know whether she looks good or not, because you're dating a 19 year old or something, then you tell her what to wear and be done with it.
You compliment on your own schedule, your compliments are golden tickets and should be treated as such or else they will lose their value. You do not remain a man of value by constantly giving it away, unless of course you are drowning in pussy and have more value than you can handle.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I agree with this idea but am I the only one where it just seems too surreal that a guy that built several corporations is here. I mean following the redpill as a way of life can get you that successful and there are guys that successful but this just feels surreal.
[–]ThumoticJonFrost25 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sounds like you've had a hell of a life and younger guys like myself could learn a lot from you.
That said, keep in mind that 1) Your success in life implies some 'natural' ability with women, and 2) The game has changed a lot in thirty years. Unless you're out pounding the pavement right now in 2013, be careful with statements like "X is way easier than you guys think." Maybe it was easy (for you) when disco was still a thing, but time marches on.
[–]goodtimeswithcash 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I built and ran a 300 person division of a company that had daily revenues over a million dollars. Allow what limiting beliefs you have about success and wealth to shatter.
[–]ThumoticJonFrost25 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not surreal at all. Lots of successful guys kick it around here. Go spend some time on the RVF to get an idea of the sort of backstory the typical TRP man has.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
RVF?
[–]redbluepilling 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There are a few threads from earlier on when users discussed their backgrounds. There are a number of 'successful', well educated, wealthy, and older individuals like we have here. Others are on their way. There were lots of STEM degrees, myself included, and business owners.
[–]ydmo 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'll side with you here.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Alright I'm gonna just get my 3.5k employee company going and then we can compare notes.
[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
I'm an old-guy...fifty-six years old, built several international corporations with 3.5K employees. Have had hundreds of three-somes.
Dude, quit trying to DHV. You don't wanna pick me up, I'm not your type.
There is nothing complicated going on here. Many of you are overthinking this entire thing. Be confident, and don't respond to, nor accept manipulation from women. Enjoy your life. That's it.
There is nothing complicated going on here. Many of you are overthinking this entire thing.
Be confident, and don't respond to, nor accept manipulation from women.
Enjoy your life. That's it.
http://www.thumotic.com/2013/05/09/argumentum-ad-amog/
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
You're right, of course, but there's an even more insidious level to Argumentum Ad AMOG. It's not just "I am awesome, you should all listen to me."
It's "this isn't a real problem, because I am too awesome to have it."
Which forces everyone else to either:
If you look at this thread, it's working very well. Many people who would be ashamed to fawn on a woman can be reduced to yes-men by an implied threat to their public image. Ideas, however, operate in the forum of ideas, independent of their source. Even known successful people aren't necessarily sources of good advice.
Would anyone here take advice from Oprah or Barrack Obama? How about Arianna Huffington? Depok Chopra?
Successful people can be source of bad advice just like everyone else... because they don't necessarily KNOW what made them successful. They mistake effects of their success for causes of it (this is why there are so many rich advocates of "the power of positive thinking"). They mistake irrelevancies for core causes.
Ever noticed how impoverished people always seem to think success is about opportunity, and rich people always think success is about drive and talent? They're both not thinking clearly. They both have beliefs caused by their circumstances, not circumstances caused by their beliefs.
One of the core ideas behind the red pill is that people are different. But this suggests to anyone who isn't totally out of lunch that they are going to need different strategies in order to prosper.
[–]Newthinker 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Wouldn't it be equally as fallacious to disregard his advice solely because he included some of his success measures? The advice should stand on its own.
In theory yes, but we are talking about very differences in behaviour and frame that are so subtle, it's hard to formally lay out every argument. Pickup advice usually takes the form: "I have X background, I tried Y behaviour, I had Z result."
So, ad hominem arguments are perfectly valuable. Let's say you found out that PUA guru X is a rich and famous male model. Kind of puts the reliability of his advice in perspective, right?
OP is (charitably) ignorant of the reality that 'just be yourself' doesn't work for every man, or even most men. More likely he's just lacking something else in his life and is looking for a cheap ego boost by implying to TRP how cool and successful he is, that everyone here is nowhere near as cool as him, and that we should all take a minute out of our lives to pay our e-respects to his awesomeness.
[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, yes and no. There's a difference between advice and a field report. A field report is raw data, "I am X, I did Y, Z happened". Advice is instructions, presumably a processed form of a lot of raw data, "Do Y, and you will get Z result".
You notice the absence of X in that second statement. If X's advice only works for X, or those who are X, it is useless to anyone who is not X. If advice has only been tested by Xs, then there is no evidence whatsoever that it will work for anyone who isn't X.
This is complicated by the fact that people aren't just X. They are X, Q, W, R, and P. And if they do Y, and get Z, they often have no idea at all if that's because they are X, or because they are Q, or because they are both W and P, or if anyone at all who does Y gets Z.
Now, of course, none of this is really relevant to OP, because he isn't saying "I am X, I did Y, I got Z". He's saying "I get Z pretty easily without much Y, you guys should listen to me because I am X."
I mean, let's look at his specific "advice":
Be confident, and don't respond to, nor accept manipulation from women. Enjoy your life. That's it.
That's got to be the stupidest advice ever. Not because it's wrong, but because it's vague and useless. In the words of Samuel Johnson, "Sir, your work is both brilliant and original. Alas, the parts which are brilliant are not original, and the parts which are original are not brilliant."
This guy pretty much came along and AMOGed the whole subreddit, and it fills me with shame to acknowledge how many of my peers went for it.
But it does support two things I frequently say about the alpha/beta dichotomy.
Acting alpha, and/or having game, is HARD. One failure of will, one slip, one bad day, and any of us can sink into old, bad habits.
Alpha and beta are not people. They are two pieces of software that run on the human brain. Every one of us has the code for both.
And the beta software is for sucking up to ascendant rivals so they share the wealth, or at least don't stomp your face in. But that's the problem. It's so easy to run the beta program if we are afraid, or if we think someone can give us a hand up, that we run it inappropriately.
So let's assume OP really is the awesome guy he claims to be. And that he genuinely wants to help out. Well, even if those two things were true, he'd still be hurting the people he was trying to help. Because treating him like a sage or guru is running the beta program. And the more we run it, the easier it is to run. The further we become from the self-starting, iron-willed, fearless leaders we are in our best moments, and strive to be all the time.
No one can spoon feed you initiative and self-reliance. These things, by their very nature, cannot be spoon-fed.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's hard to choose who to pay attention to when all you have is words on a screen. Eventually you start to notice patterns though. The big one I look for is: Does guru X seem genuinely motivated by the desire to help other men, or does he just get off on 'playing guru'?
[–]ThumoticJonFrost25 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great explanation.
A lot of the older guys in TRP are just looking for an excuse to play "authority figure" in a room full of young guys.
OP's tone reminds me of Mark Minter:
http://www.returnofkings.com/14846/mark-minter-is-a-phony
[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 16 points17 points18 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Your place, in this case, is "out of the scope of the discussion".
The advice you give needs to stand on its own merits, not be artificially inflated with DHV attempts by the speaker.
[–]steadymotion 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm more inclined to take the advice of a person who has achieved some of the results I wish to achieve in my life, than the advice of a keyboard warrior. Therefore, OP's "place" is relevant to me.
What merit does advice have other than its ability to give you the results you want? The result the advice is likely to cause is its merit, and a display of high value from an individual does inflate the advice that individual gives, but not "artificially", as you put it.
Argument from authority is only a fallacy when the person has arbitrary authority, not when a person has authority for a good reason. Real authority can be evidence of the validity of an argument, such as, "My ideas are good because I have implemented them to achieve success."
[–]steadymotion -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes.
[–]TRP VanguardWhisper 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Still trying to run game, eh? Your audience is male, not female. Plan accordingly.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Man, do people focus on the wrong thing.
If I say "this car isn't working", or if I say "this car isn't working, I'm an engineer", does it change the fact that the car isn't working?
The man's got a point. A solid one. And if a woman doesn't survive this answer, she's probably not a good one.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
hundreds of three-somes
I had 1 last year and that was because it fell into my lap completely by chance
How the fuck do you manage to pull a triple digit? I'm shooting to bag 100 girls in my lifetime, but fuck man, 100 threesomes?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
What kind of businesses did you found? Were they web based? Brick & Mortar?
If you are telling the truth, which I hope you are, I feel like myself and a lot of people here could learn a lot from you.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]veggie_girl 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Worst comes about you can try a Kickstarter.
[–]redpill80 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
My answer is always to "mirror and escalate."
Do I look fat? "Yep hun you got the biggest badonkadonk here" She ignores you? Ignore her twice as hard. She takes a step back? Take two.
on the other side...
she kisses you. mirror it and escalate- Throw her down and fuck her good. She takes a step toward you. Take two toward her. She does something good. Approve and encourage it.
Girls not only have a lot of nice guys in their life but also a few alpha...they're used to men being either supplicant or overly aloof. the push-pull thing drives them crazy and keeps them guessing since your behavior is so unpredictable
[–]redpill80 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Agreed, thanks for responding. I like to learn from others' experience.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's ... brilliant.
[–]blinkyone 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I'm studying a bit of psychology particularly Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, and I think this can come off as invalidating to the person/girl. There must be underlying reasons that makes them feel that way or spruce up that question or need for validation.
[–]blinkyone 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Got it. This sounds very blatant and direct, an all-or-nothing mentality that is working for you.
[–]cmhffemt 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I got this questions about jeans once. Told her "sweetheart it's not the jeans." She fucked my brains out that night and never asked that stupid question again.
[–]LickitySplit939 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Meh, not sure. My wife has piss poor aesthetic sensibilities. When she asks if something looks good on her, she literally has no idea, and what's unfiltered criticism to inform her choices.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]LickitySplit939 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Really? She has her own personal style - she has just over time acknowledged the superiority of my own :D
Its totally nuts to me that someone's 'personal style' is a deal breaker for you. The clothing we wear is just the arbitrary result of a cultural status quo and the creations of an advertising complex. The world if full of wonders - what brand names you drape over your body seems absolutely irrelevant.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]LickitySplit939 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Sounds like you set it lower. Have fun with your fashion forward fashionista who never requires any input in any situation because they are literally god.
[–]LickitySplit939 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I have no idea if you've 'settled', whatever that means. You're probably single if you actualize the garbage you say on reddit - or you use a TRP euphemism, you're 'playing the field' or whatever.
With 7 billion people on earth, there will never be a single human who is the best at everything - from painting to kung fu to space shuttle pilot - I think you would agree it is unreasonable to expect such a person to exist, and further to be your partner. Therefore, every human woman in existence is 'settling', by your definition. I've 'settled' for someone who is so unconcerned by the trivialities of the fashion industrial complex that she routinely defers to my (unfortunately) better sense in this capacity. She excels in many other areas, where I suppose I did not 'settle' - yay me!
Enjoy loneliness while you wait until infinity for the goddess of perfection to slobber all over your perfect cock.
[–]LickitySplit939 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There is a significant difference between expecting someone to be perfect, and settling for a woman who can't tell how she looks in clothes.
What is the difference? Do you settle in other areas then? I didn't say she couldn't tell - just that I was better at it. I am better at many things, and vice versa - do you also think people in a relationship should have nothing to offer on another?
You presume I'm lonely because you need that presumption to find a way to not feel like less a person...because you settled.
I presume loneliness because you seem like an objectionable prick. I have no idea what your actual subjective state is, but your apparent awesome refusal to 'settle' does not make me feel like less of a person...
Your standards are not high, and likely mirror hers.
You know what, you're right! Come to think of it, I really should have prioritized a hyper conventional airhead who knew everything about clothes.
I'm not sure how you measure 'standards', but I am a PhD in biomedical engineering working on my MD. Judging from a brief perusal of your reddit history, you're a middle aged guitarist who seems to be some kind of climate change denying libertarian... you have set the bar pretty low here, I hope you meet your high standards someday.
[–]Thors_Cock 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's an interesting read. It appears to me, that the more confident we are the more honest we are about our needs. Confidence itself is a take it or leave it attitude.
I know for a fact that confidence has nothing to do with accomplishments. I've interviewed politicians on TV, won prizes for academic papers, and I have a perfect GPA. But that didn't stop me from becoming depressed, and to feel like a failure.
It was never about the success itself. It was always about the person, and what values and skills he built himself around. We believe that past success is an indicator af future success, precisely because it's the person that matters and not what is written on paper. But in reality, neither matters - what matters is what we do in the moment.
The world is filled with immature individuals these days. The issue is that most people feel like they have to build themselves up. And we can't build ourselves up, because we have no secure guiding principle that we can hold on to.
Fundamentally, I suppose, it's exactly because we're locked inside our own minds. We believe that our minds propel us forward, when actually that is a lie. What moves us forward is us. I sat down in front of this computer, because I decided that I wanted to use my time here. Do we even know what is going on around us?
We try to condition ourselves into a specific thought-pattern, or to "build up" our personalities by way of telling ourselves stories, but really there is no such thing. We not only game others, we game ourselves. All the time. It's no wonder we get locked up in bullshit, when we are so disconnected from who we really are.
Thank you for sharing.
[–]Kepaso 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Does this dress make me look fat? yeah but you're lucky that i like big butts!
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