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[–]norwegiandoggo 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
Because a 30 year old guy is typically more attractive to a larger portion of women. So if you pool women all ages. The average number one most attractive age would be around 30. But if you ask a bunch of women that are 22, they would say something like 24 is most attractive to them. Women mostly prefer someone around their own age +- a few years (usually + a few years).
But why are most 30 year olds hotter than 20 year olds all things considered?
Let me explain:
A person around age 30 typically also
Etc. Etc.
Women don't only care about appearance. They care also about a lot of this stuff I mentioned above. And while a 20 year old may look better physically. It doesn't help that much that he's a broke ass philosophy student living with his parents trying to figure out what the hell to do with his life and how dating works.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So if you pool women all ages
But in the end wouldn't guys want to be seen as attractive to the women that are also the most attractive/in their looks prime? In this case it would be 18-25 year old women.
Like you mentioned, a 22 year old woman which is in that prime looks age range will find a 24 year old much more attractive than a 30 something year old.
Physical strength maximizes around age 30. Intelligence maximizes around age 30.
I think this depends on where a guy stands genetic wise though. Because a natural 5/10 guy in his 30s that went to the gym and maxed out his strength/muscle mass/looks, etc up to a 7/10 at most would not be seen more attractive than if a 24 year old guy for example that was naturally good looking 7/10 but the gym brought him up to an 8 or 9/10.
There just isn't any competition between the two, the younger guy will be the winner in these instances.
Most of these things a 20 something year old can have and even the ones that he doesn't have would be overlooked either way due to the sheer difference genetic wise though.
Example: If we used the same two guys from the previous example, the natural 5/10 30 year old would probably not have as much experience with women as the younger good looking guy who will probably be flooded with attention from girls his age and lead to more.
Women don't only care about appearance
No, but I'd say it's a large portion. There is a point where having other qualities won't salvage the fact that his looks are so low. Almost like a bench mark, "if you don't reach this line, none of the other qualities will matter much".
he's a broke ass philosophy student living with his parents trying to figure out what the hell to do with his life and how dating works.
Not all are philosophy students though, a bunch end up going into tech or business fields and thrive after college. Plus add the fact that some of these guys may already be good off due to their genetics, they're already better off than the 30 year old guy.
[–]norwegiandoggo 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Age is just one component of a person's overal attractiveness. And men are more sensitive to wanting someone of a younger age than women are. I'm sure you have seen many 22 year old women that are not attractive. But that is not that relevant to answering your question. There's a huge variation among 20 year old and 30 year olds. But on average, they have different attributes. On an individual level a particular 50 year old might beat a particular 20 year old. Or vice versa. This is not relevant. We're not comparing individuals here, because undividual variation isn't helpful to answering your question as to why 30 year olds are considered attractive. We have to make age-relevant generalizations and look at averages to answer your question. For example, on average, a 30 year old has a higher education and income than an average 20 year old. This does not mean that one particular 20 year old always has less education and income than an average 30 year old. We're comparing averages to averages. Because we have to compare apples to apples.
Which age is most attractive is based on how you poll. The ultimate answer to which age is more attractive is "It depends on who you ask". Arguments could be made either way as to how to poll. Whether you believe we should only poll women of the most attractive age, or whether we should poll women of any age. That's a phosophical argument that I don't really care about. I just relay the data / points of view to help answer your original question. Poll women of any age, a guy aged around 30 will be considered the most attractive. Poll women aged say 22, and a guy aged around 24 would be considered the most attractive.
[–]OtPayOkerSmay 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All of the above, but I'll add that a 20 year old also generally hasn't been through tough enough times to harden up a baby face; where a 30 year old has had some life experience and has lost some of the softer facial features they used to have.
[–]ThatGuy_Nick9 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
As a 24 year old male, my dating pool is 21-26. A 30 year olds is 21-~40
[–]Creative_Hotel_8811 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
False, a 30 year old high value males dating pool is 18-33. No man of value wants a wildebeest
[–]ThatGuy_Nick9 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough
[–]Calamity__Bane 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A 30 year old’s age pool is technically unlimited, he simply decides where the limits are for his own reasons.
[–]MeWuzBornIn1990 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m 31 and my dating pool has consistently been 22-28.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
30 going after a 21 year old is weird
[–]jjboy91 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Urban legend in my reality, they don't care that I am successful, respectful and we'll educated. They only see someone that doesn't fit beauty standards
[–]TooMuchJibberish 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They only see someone that doesn't fit beauty standards
I agree with this sentiment, your success might only matter if you pass a certain line of looks
[–]jjboy91 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But I dress good like I know my colors, hand pick my clothes from local designers, no fast-fashion.
[–]Calamity__Bane 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
20 year olds are more retarded than 30 year olds in virtually every meaningful way.
[–]hookedonfonicsmunky 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm getting way more attention now at late 27 than i ever did before 25, pretty sure slightly thinning hair is a good sign for woman hahaha jkjk i honestly don't know
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hmmm that sure is an anomaly. Like you're receiving attention from good looking girls with your hair begining to get thinner? Lol what?
[–]hookedonfonicsmunky 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
nah it was a joke haha, but i just meant i'm getting more attention nearing 30 than i was younger
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
It’s to make the fat balding 30-35 year olds on this sub feel better
And it’s to give the 19-22 year olds who have absolutely no experience some false sense of hope that something changes at 30
[–]TooMuchJibberish 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Lol
This hits home to me lol, I'm 24 with no experience so far. That's why I'm not buying much of this claim, I'm obviously looksmaxxing and gymaxxing but I don't know if things will just magically change at 30.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I’m 21 with minimal experience that I very recently got so I understand the feeling. I dislike the “30 is the ultimate answer” rhetoric and I think it’s to make sure guys like us don’t give up lol.
If you’re looking to just gain quick experience I truly recommend tinder.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I think it’s to make sure guys like us don’t give up lol.
It doesn’t make sense though, wouldn't it be in their best interest for us to give up? It would mean more girls for them, not that we had the chance to begin with anyway lol
I truly recommend tinder
I've tried the apps, no luck. I'm giving them another shot in a month or two though, I'm getting my pics taken by a photographer first.
If that doesn't do the trick then my chances are basically over
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Yeah get a photographer to take your pics that should help a lot.
I’m in college, so tinder is active in my college town. However in my home town it’s a desert so I understand.
Honestly I realized hooking up with random girls is useless. I did it once and my whole thought process changed. I much rather get in a relationship with a girl I really like. One good girl is worth it
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I did it once and my whole thought process changed. I much rather get in a relationship with a girl I really like. One good girl is worth it
Well that's the thing, I haven't even reached the hooking up stage. I feel like I need/want to experience this phase first for a bit perhaps because I feel like I've already missed out enough since that's what the young people seem to be doing.
Well I suppose I'm still young but I meant younger than me (18-23).
But maybe after a while I'll grow out of it and seek a relationship.
...but at the same time I also want a relationship you know?
It's simply the feeling of having missed out on a lot already and wanting to make up for it in such a short amount of time, since I feel like my time is running out.
That "quarter life crisis" kind of hit me rough since January.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Trust me I get it I’m a little younger than you (21) but until February I was a kissless virgin too lol. Literally if you messaged me in January I would’ve agreed with you.
But now I see how pointless hooking up is. It’s not hard. You’ll be fine your first time. But trust me go for a relationship not just a stranger.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
But trust me go for a relationship
Where would I even "go for a relationship"? I'm graduated from university so that's out of the question, my dumbass should have tried harder in dating instead of only trying in academics.
I really needed someone to kick my head and tell me college is for pursuing relationships as well, not just being a nerd lol. The only things I did extracurricular were play intramural sports (including coed).
Now I just work, go to the gym and maybe go out on Fridays and weekends. And tinder/apps from what I've heard isn't exactly filled with "marriage quality" people so 🤷♂️, kinda lost.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Do you have any friends that are girls?
Yeah I also am fucked after college lol I barely made any friends or relationships and graduate this May so it’s not just you.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Nope
[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Damn. I was gonna say try to go for their friends.
Sounds like dating after school is impossible lol
[–]TooMuchJibberish1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It really is, I only seem to have 3 options at this point: A: Dating apps B: Cold approach C: Meeting them through Gym
Out of these 3, C is considered taboo for some odd reason even though marriages have come out of it, B is a low probability of success bearing in mind my average looks, and A well...it's borderline impossible.
I don't know how people do it 🤷♂️, I'm hoping with looksmaxxing and gymaxxing things would hopefully get easier with time but I can't take that gamble.
That’s what I did during all last year I just hit the gym but here’s the thing unless you’re talking to a lot of women they won’t see your gains and ironically I haven’t been hitting the gym lately and actually got a girl to sleep with me so
[–]Kronuk 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Because men get more attractive as they age, usually peaking in the 40s granted he stays hitting the gym hard and isn't a loser. Women start at their peak around 18-25 and then are on a more downward slope after that. This is why as far as sexual value goes, an older mature and established man will be able to get the younger girl in her prime because they're at the same level and a lot of women are drawn to men with experience since they are typically more confident and have "been there done that". A lot of it is mindset as well.
[–]aplrazolam02 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
False, men peak around 27 and it last for a good 7-8 years, 40 is for sure over the hill lmao
[–]Kronuk 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If I had to tone back my answer, I'd say mid 30s is more accurate. 27 doesn't make as much sense, but putting this all down to a formula also doesn't make much sense. Varies from individual to individual. I've found this chart to be accurate in my observations throughout life.
https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/smv\_curve1.jpg
usually peaking in the 40s granted he stays hitting the gym hard and isn't a loser. Women start at their peak around 18-25 and then are on a more downward slope after that.
usually peaking in the 40s granted he stays hitting the gym hard and isn't a loser.
Women start at their peak around 18-25 and then are on a more downward slope after that.
This is where I disagree with your first point.
A 40 year old guy will not be better looking than a genetically superior 20 something year old that goes to the gym. He is much younger and thus will have no wrinkle marks, aging marks, or anything else aging related.
A 40 something year old guy that has gone constantly to the gym and has maxed out his looks will only be seen as attractive to women that you mentioned "have gone on a more downward slope", women in their 30s, 40s, single moms, etc.
They won't be seen as attractive to those women you mentioned in their peaks (18-25 year old).
So I ask, what is the point in being seen as an attractive 40 year old if you won't attract the women in their primes?
an older mature and established man will be able to get the younger girl in her prime because they're at the same level and a lot of women are drawn to men with experience since they are typically more confident and have "been there done that".
I think this point is heavily misleading. Sure some might claim to want a mature established guy, what they really mean is a guy at most 5-8 years older than them and with a career already and enough experience with women. Not some guy that is her own father's or grandfathers age, that wouldn't make much sense at all.
And how would they be at "the same level"?
[–]Kronuk 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
And why do you think that a 20 year old is genetically superior? Why do you think that wrinkle marks are unattractive to women? This is where you might be mislead, thinking that a youthful appearance is more attractive as a man. You have to consider what makes a masculine man attractive to a woman, and think about it on a primal level. Youth is more admired in women, as is with delicate young skin, etc.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And why do you think that a 20 year old is genetically superior?
In terms of facial harmony/face structure (sharp goneon, good mandible, good ramus, good forward growth, non receding chin, high set cheekbones, hollow lower part of cheeks, eyebrow thickness, etc)
A 30 or 40 year old guy could be very well off physically speaking in terms of hitting the gym and in terms of wealth, but his lack of some or most of the previous points mentioned would put him at a significant disadvantage compared to the 20 something year old guy.
Why do you think that wrinkle marks are unattractive to women
Not only wrinkle marks, but other aging marks like bags under the eyes. They signify their youthfulness is slowly fading away.
thinking that a youthful appearance is more attractive as a man.
I certainly believe this is the case
A good example is Leonardo DiCaprio, I would argue that he looked significantly better looking in the movie Titanic when he was just a 23 year old. Women of all ages were just swooning over the guy (putting aside the fact that hes a celebrity for a bit), and he had all youthful facial features.
But now at 47, sure he still looks good but now has wrinkles, and other aging signs which make him look less attractive than when he was at 23. The guy did not peak at 40 something, he peaked at his 20s lookswise.
This can he applied to the general male population
[–]Kronuk 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I disagree, I've tended to hear many women think good looking celebrities have gotten more manly, rugged, and handsome the older they have gotten. I get where you're coming from, but you're approaching attraction far too logically.
I've noticed the older I've gotten, the more women are attracted to me, and I've seen it with many older guys that I know personally. Also keep in mind that physical appearance is less important for women than it is to men. You have to consider what happens to your mindset as you grow older and wiser. This can be an increase in power, authority, dominance, decisiveness and confidence which are all supremely attractive to women. That's not to say that younger guys can't have these same qualities, but it is less likely to be on the same caliber.
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I completely agree with you
[–]nordik1 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You’re basing this off your standards of what constitutes beauty/good looks. Many women love the David Beckham or George Clooney type rugged older guy look, and 9/10 of women prefer guys older than them to start with. Dating a guy 10-15 years older is nothing to most women, especially after college.
[–]rkr87 4 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
You're confusing being attractive with physical appearance. People here are answering your question based on attractiveness where as you seem hung up on physical appearance. Physical appearance is just one of many factors considered in determining how attractive a man is to a woman.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I understand there are other factors that aren't physical at play, but isn't the physical appearance a huge part of it? I assume to most it'd be a deal breaker
[–]nordik1 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If the 30+ year old played his cards right, he’s more manly, masculine, intelligent, experienced, and financially well-off than a guy in his 20s. Just the maturity difference alone is massive for attracting women. So many guys in their 20s act like kids still. It’s shooting fish in a barrel if you’re well-rounded after 30 years old
If the 30+ year old played his cards right
What percentage of 30 year Olds do you think "play their cards right"? One could assume a bunch of them won't take care of themselves, gain weight, etc.
Just the maturity difference alone is massive for attracting women
I don't know about this one.
You think a mature balding 30 something year old that's short and with a receding chin is going to be more attractive than a tall, fit 20 something year old guy?
I personally don't think so, and it sure won't be shooting fish in a barrel for the guy in my opinion.
[–]nordik1 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We are talking about something different now. In your original post you didn't specify if we are talking about a 30 year old who didn't take care of himself, gained weight, is short etc. If that's the type of 30 year old you're talking about, he obviously won't be as attractive as a tall fit 22 year old, but neither would a 23 year old with the same attributes. You're more so talking about things that would make any age range unattractive versus the opposite.
The idea of the 30+ guy being more attractive than the 20-something comes from the idea that they're both in shape, decent looking, actively pursuing goals etc -- it's the idea of "all else being equal..."
You take a good looking fit 35 year old and match him up against a good looking fit 25 year old and I'll put my money on the 35 year old due to the differences I mentioned before. If you match a fit, tall, handsome 20-something against any age that is short, overweight, and didn't take care of themselves, and it's obviously game over.
If someone has said that girls prefer an average 35 year old over a fit handsome 20-something, they're wrong unless those girls are really searching for security to have kids and have been played repeatedly by Chads.
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
Because for Men, the older they are the more they look Manly , Masculine, Mature. A 20 year old guy can be attractive in that age as well but the more he ages, the more subtly attractive he can be. While for women, the more we age , the less attractive we become.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
How old are you if you don't mind me asking?
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
23 years
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
So you'd find a 30 something year old guy more attractive than a guy around your age bracket [20-27ish]?
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Yes definitely, personally I'm into guys who are at least 3 years older or more than me.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Interesting, do you believe that this is the case for most girls around that age or is it perhaps just your own preference?
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Just my preference, some People are concerned with age gaps so I cannot generalize. But I have seen older age men , even middle age , they still have physical charm on them.... which is appealing either sexually or just aesthetically.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Well if the preferences you say are true for a bunch of other girls around that age (also my age), then my options are even worse than what I thought lol
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Can you explain more? I don't get it
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
You said the preference would be at least 3 years older, that would lower my chances down to only ones from 18-21.
I'm assuming older ones would find younger guys off putting as well.
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It depends, some women might be attracted to same age or just 1 years older or some might not care.. which means you can't be sure unless you communicate with the interested person. Which means you can always have a chance.
unless you communicate with the interested person.
Well that's a whole challenge in itself, from what I've seen majority of girls don't want to be approached anymore, so my chances are a bit low
Hmmmm , according to social psychology a close proximity and repeated as well as small greetings always help in increase attraction, maybe this can help before the main approach. I don't have any experience in offline dating , so i can't say much in to it😂😂😂.
I don't have any experience in offline dating
Yeah I don't have any experience in dating in general so I don't know either 🤷♂️
A lot of People are bro, we are getting too dependent on texting , we have lost confidence in initiating conversations offline
we have lost confidence in initiating conversations offline
I would have the confidence to do this if girls actually seemed opened to it. But from what I've seen this isn't even remotely the case and seem creeped out if a guy tries to initiate something with her.
🤷♂️
Yes, i think i also partly blame the woke feminism ideology, which I think maybe especially in America, women want equal power to men so they might not appreciate being approached anymore, like maybe it's a big deal anymore to them, since they have become less traditional
Yes, I agree with everything you said. I'm in America too, the center of everything you described.
So don't blame yourself, just try, if it's not , fuck it and enjoy something else
[–]NineteenAD9 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most men in their 20s are broke and still figuring shit out.
Your 30s are your 20s with more money, stability, and wisdom. You have your shit together and since women typically date at their age or higher, older men are in prime position and have a wider dating pool.
There's more than looks involved as the reason
[–]CharmedBySnakes -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So as a 34 yr old woman I should be going for 20 something yr old guys? Interesting.
I'd personally rather have a 30 something guy who is at the same place in life as me. Why pick the 20 yr old guy? They don't have the same maturity level,life experience,etc. I don't think we'd be compatible.
[–]TooMuchJibberish 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So as a 34 yr old woman I should be going for 20 something yr old guys?
No, I guess I should have worded it better.
But what I meant is I'm assuming guys would prefer to be seen as attractive to girls/women in their prime youth years (ages 18-25ish, maybe up to 27/28), but those guys in their 30s would only be seen as attractive to other 30, 40 year old women which probably won't be as attractive as women in their 20s.
That's what I meant
I'd personally rather have a 30 something guy who is at the same place in life as me
This makes sense
[–]Elegant_Weasel 4 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I keep seeing the opposite claim lol. Idk dude, it's really not a benefit or a handicap that I've experienced. the only real advantage I can think of is if you've been gaming for a longer period of time, so you have more experience. having said that, some women will just have an initial preference for younger or older guys. nothing you can't usually nullify with good game. it is what it is.
Idk dude, it's really not a benefit or a handicap that I've experienced
Wouldn't it be seen as a handicap if you're older and attracted to early 20 something year old girls?
I read an article surrounding spring break at the famous place most go to in Florida, coincidentally a bunch of older guys like going there to try to hit on the girls there that are college aged.
And several of them were just put off by the fact that they were even there.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2014/04/02/meet-the-older-men-looking-to-score-during-spring-break/amp/
You think that "game" would he sufficient enough to not come off as creepy/nullify in a case like this?
[–]Elegant_Weasel1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
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[–]nordik1 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points (18 children) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 1 point2 points3 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub 0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Bhardwaj-littlesub1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]NineteenAD9 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CharmedBySnakes -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Elegant_Weasel [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TooMuchJibberish 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Elegant_Weasel1 point [recovered] | Copy Link