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[–]kurtgodelisdead 23 points24 points25 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Some of this is spot on:
Having a clinginess level which rivals that of a leech. Last guy I gave my number to texted me a ridiculous amount. I point blank (but kindly) told him I was no longer interested in him due to such clinginess. In response, I got a lecture about how terrible a person I am and how much I will miss him. I literally knew him for a week. I don't miss him...
Having a clinginess level which rivals that of a leech.
Last guy I gave my number to texted me a ridiculous amount. I point blank (but kindly) told him I was no longer interested in him due to such clinginess. In response, I got a lecture about how terrible a person I am and how much I will miss him. I literally knew him for a week.
I don't miss him...
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/12onbj/women_of_reddit_what_are_some_things_guys_do_that/c6wwjjy
That was me 6 months ago :(
Glad to have seddit to get me back on track with my life.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]awsumsauce 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're spot on, pretty much. I like the translation "second-hand embarrassment".
[–]squarehouse 26 points27 points28 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I was reading quite a few of the comments that women are submitting there, and honestly, I don't think anything that is wrong per se. I guess I just hope that the guys on seddit don't think the following are effective tactics (if not, lemme see field reports!):
But 90% of the examples there are due to one thing: Lack of calibration. The women there are complaining about guys who just weren't calibrating well, socially or personally with them. The missteps were due to context, not content. In truth there's a time for everything, even dick picks.
[–]NoPenisNo 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In truth there's a time for everything, even dick picks
Someone should make a poster out of this
[–]TurnTheShip 36 points37 points38 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If you want to learn how to catch a fish, don't ask the fish, ask the fisherman
[–]Justin_Biebers 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fish. How do I catch you?
[–]Bevman00 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
bingo.
[–]UnapologeticalyAlive 15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If you're asking what women want, you've already lost. Women don't want a guy who molds himself after what he thinks they want. Women want a guy who has his own personality and brings something unexpected to the table. They don't want a puppy dog who strives to please them. They want an equal partner in the relationship. They want a man they can respect and admire. So stop asking what women want. Just become the best version of yourself and then see how much women like that.
[–]Edgemere -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
While it is great to do this for r/relationships, this is r/seduction, and on the topic of seducing women, if not trying to date them, and only trying for a one night stand, most personalities won't do as well as the manly personality... Hence this subreddit. I mean, I'm weird and nerdy to the point that its off putting, and "normal" gals cringe at the sight of me in clubs and such once I start acting like "myself". I wouldn't have been with a single gal since college started if I just acted like myself.
[–]playfulpenis 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Are you acting like yourself in an alpha, attractive way, or in a strange way?
I'd say I'm a pretty outgoing, cocky-funny nerd. I'm an ENTP (myers-brigg personality type).
[–]Gareth321 19 points20 points21 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
A year ago, I would have been furiously taking notes. I mean, women appear to be telling us all of their secret desires! Nuggets like "Backhanded sexist "compliments" such as "For a girl, you're really smart!" or "I don't generally find girls funny, but you crack me up!" Ugh. Just no." and "I hate someone who is cocky. There is a distinct difference between being confident and cocky. Even if you're Ryan Gosling good looking, I will immediately write you off if you're a cocky fuck." However, when I applied the knowledge I've learned - not just this past year, but throughout my dating life - I came to the realization that what most women claim to want, and what they actually want, are usually two different things.
We know that conscious and subconscious thoughts can coexist, and often conflict. This gives rise to the reality that women often really do want their cake and to eat it too. That is, they want a caring, sensitive man, who is also masculine and in control. At face value, some of you might claim these are not mutually exclusive, but I would argue that they do conflict on many levels. This leads to a serious problem for men (one which our forefathers have no doubt had to contend with). We are expected to be everything, all at once. We are expected to know what she wants, when even she doesn't know it. There's the rub. We must learn what they want - they cannot tell us. This leaves us with just two options: asking other, successful men, and practise.
[–]rubysparks 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
They're not mutually exclusive. I'm a lady, and I have to say, you can be confident and "manly" without being a douchebag. And the cocky comment, at least, is spot on. If you're cute and cocky, you'll get a giggle out of me, but I'll immediately start making fun of you, and be leaving with someone who can be fun without being a wanker.
[–]kurtgodelisdead 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
you can be confident and "manly" without being a douchebag.
I think some examples would help explain your case a bit better.
While there are numerous obvious ways one can be a douchebag, there are certainly some grey areas. One woman could consider something too cocky while another would consider it simply confident.
[–]frogma 14 points15 points16 points 13 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
People are equating "cockiness" with "arrogance." They're different. I see arrogance more like this:
You look at her with a straight face and seriously say something like "You're pretty smart, for a girl." That's pretty arrogant, and sexist, and makes you sound like a douchebag.
Whereas if you laugh while playfully teasing with "You're pretty smart, for a girl!", she'll (hopefully) understand that you're not being serious, she'll laugh too, and might feign madness by punching you in the shoulder. It's not the greatest example, and not something I would say, but it's an example where you're being a bit cocky (in a friendly, playful way), while not being arrogant at all.
Edit: Maybe a better example is like when you're playing a game. Let's say you're playing one-on-one beer pong (with anyone). If you say something like "I'm gonna beat the shit out of you," and you're being completely serious, that's pretty arrogant and makes you look like a dick, even if it's true. Whereas if you're being playful about it, or the context somehow shows the other person that you're not taking it too seriously, that same line is gonna get a much different reaction. You're still being cocky, because you're talking yourself up. But you're not really being arrogant.
Double edit: I always recommend being a bit cocky, because I think people are generally attracted to it when it's done right. I think what's happening here is that when these girls think of examples of cockiness, they're either describing arrogance, or they're envisioning a situation/person where it's totally overdone and obnoxious. Everyone's cocky in various situations -- witty banter can't really exist without it. The concept of teasing largely wouldn't exist without it (though I guess that depends on how you define it).
[–]playfulpenis 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Cockiness = Tooting your own horn in a playful way.
Arrogance = Tooting your own horn AND tearing down others.
Cockiness is really self-contained, whereas arrogance affects others.
[–]frogma 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I look at it largely the same way, but if you look up the definitions, there isn't much of a difference. That's what people are getting hung-up on.
Cockiness looks like it's mainly described as "self-conceit," whereas arrogance is described as "a display of superiority." So, cockiness is self-contained like you said, while arrogance implies that you're "better" than others.
But I don't think the seduction community has ever really described cockiness that way -- there's always some sort of caveat, like what we both mentioned. Whereas nobody ever says good things about "arrogance" (except some of the more controversial guys).
If I had to really differentiate the two, I'd say cockiness usually involves some sort of humor, and/or it's intended to be more "innocent." Whereas arrogance is literally suggesting that you're better than other people -- the humor isn't there, the intended "innocence" isn't there. You're basically just a narcissistic asshole.
tl;dr -- your cockiness shouldn't make people think you're an asshole. Whereas your arrogance is basically intended to make people think you're an asshole.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I view cockiness as an attitude of I'm awesome and you're awesome, so we'll have a good time. Whereas arrogance is I'm awesome because I'm better than you.
[–]kurtgodelisdead 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You look at her with a straight face and seriously say something like "You're pretty smart, for a girl." That's pretty arrogant, and sexist, and makes you sound like a douchebag. Whereas if you laugh while playfully teasing with "You're pretty smart, for a girl!", she'll (hopefully) understand that you're not being serious, she'll laugh too, and might feign madness by punching you in the shoulder. It's not the greatest example, and not something I would say, but it's an example where you're being a bit cocky (in a friendly, playful way), while not being arrogant at all.
This is exactly what I'm saying. The difference is so razor thin, you can cut glass with it.
[–]frogma 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
It's definitely just something that comes with practice, and you judge it based on people's reactions more than anything else. I can't even explain the difference really -- the definitions I used above implied that cockiness requires a sense of humor/playfulness, but that's not necessarily the case.
Basically, you just go out and talk to people, and be confident. When you say certain things about yourself, especially when you're just bantering back and forth with someone, and they tend to respond positively, that likely means you were just being cocky (and in a good way). But if they respond negatively, that means you were either being arrogant, or they at least took it that way -- and you need to think about where it went wrong. And like you said, you might've done nothing "wrong," per se -- you might've gotten a good reaction if you had said the same thing to someone else.
This whole discussion would be totally different from a girl's perspective though, because she has to deal with all different kinds of guys. Some might be cocky, some might be arrogant, some might be insecure and totally uninteresting, some might just be assholes in general (with plenty of guys falling somewhere in between). Some of those cocky guys might have "cockiness" as one of their defining characteristics, which means they take it too far. You don't really want to be thought of as cocky in general (though that can still be fine). It's just useful in various situations.
IMO, when you have a certain level of confidence, it's almost a guarantee that you'll also be a bit cocky, especially when you're bantering with someone or playfully teasing them. Like I said, banter isn't really banter without it. It would just be "chatting." Look at James Bond, or Hank Moody in Californication. They engage in some form of banter with almost every woman they interact with (and most of the men, too) -- it's one of the quickest/easiest ways to build sexual tension/attraction.
Edit: Bringing it back to the main point of this post -- men look at how various women react when they do certain things. Based on the reactions from multiple different women, they can determine what "works" and what doesn't. Women only know their own reactions (or even just hypothetical reactions), and those reactions are based on various men. I don't need to know how she reacted to Joe Schmo, because I'm not him. And 99.999-100% of the time, I'm not interacting with her. I'm interacting with a bunch of other girls, and may never meet her in my life. As an extreme example, some SRSers are extremely wary of men approaching them, and will be openly antagonistic. So they'll often tell you to just not approach women. Well, that's not practical for me, and those SRSers make up a tiny minority of the population (who I will likely never interact with), so their opinion is completely irrelevant.
[–]kurtgodelisdead 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"I hate someone who is cocky. There is a distinct difference between being confident and cocky. Even if you're Ryan Gosling good looking, I will immediately write you off if you're a cocky fuck."
Part of me thinks that comments like this are an ASD. In other words, admitting they like cockiness is equivalent to admitting they want to be dominated verbally and then later physically.
What do you think?
[–]squarehouse 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No. I think women merely expect a certain level of cockiness from guys. If you're being appropriately cocky, she doesn't see it as cocky.
Again, this is 90% about calibration. Women go through these sort of micro-moods that change as you're talking to them. If you can intuit what mood she's in, and respond appropriately, you won't have the trouble that most of these women are having.
[–]WeegeeThompson 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You may be right, but your formatting is wrong for reddit. When submitting a link to Reddit, you can switch the top tab from link to text and then when you post, these paragraph will appear directly underneath your post instead of just as a comment posted below it.
[–]angry_dave 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What that thread was full of was great examples of people using the concepts taught here badly. How many moves that the girls mentioned sounded familiar? There was negging, DHVs, DLVs, qualifiers, disqualifiers, the whole gamut, but they were received badly, whether it be due to the guy's delivery or the girl's receptiveness to that approach.
THIS IS A HUGE LESSON. Again it rings true that you can say anything you want, as long as you say it well. You need to constantly calibrate yourself and be perceptive of the girl's needs and what approach would be appropriate. And for fuck's sake smile and laugh at everything you say. You're a funny motherfucker.
[–]vuxanov 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So you should send pictures of your dick to a girl you just met. And girls actually like douche bags, racists and being raped. Good to know.
[–]itsmevichet 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah... I didn't really see any bad advice... or even really any advice in that thread. More like just gripes.
[–]Bevman00 -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
dignified ladies bringing up the one thing that guy did that one time and using it as the basis of irrational man-hate.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That thread is basically full of commons sense things and women complaining about annoying things that they have experienced.
The reason why you don't take dating advice from women is because most of them don't actually know why some men make them feel the way they feel. A lot of women don't even know what they want themselves.
[–]frogma -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To be fair (and so outsiders don't read this the wrong way), guys are largely the same. Raise your hand if you've ever "chased" a girl who clearly didn't like you. Raise your hand if you've ever "chased" a girl who you normally wouldn't be attracted to. It largely works the same way for guys -- I've dated girls who were very similar to me, and other girls who were the complete opposite, in terms of beliefs, demeanor, etc.
[–]backtothegame 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bring out the deer hunting analogy. Instead of asking a grizzled veteran deer hunter about the best way to track and hunt instead walk up to a fawn and start asking it questions about the best way to hunt it and it's sisters.
[–]Bevman00 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So often in that thread I've read "Guy does X thing and it immediately makes him creepy and I want nothing to do with him".
Come on, guys say the wrong thing all the time, even the guys you might want to date; the pendulum is pretty free-swinging, and I've spun a coloured opinion back to a positive one countless times. In fact, thats exactly how you pull off a neg - you're not serious, you're ribbing her because its fun and she shouldn't be acting so damn precious.
[–]absolutebeginners 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
fuckk offff, girls like different things
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A lot of those posters seem really bitter.
Woman: You want a girl who doesn't like the kitchen. Worst advice ever.
[–]destinys_parent -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow some of it is not bad but asking women for dating advice is a terrible idea. They can not articulate what they want.
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[–]kurtgodelisdead 23 points24 points25 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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